Poll: My friend is a Communist

[II2]

So, regarding some of the comments:

- Yes, this thread is pedantic and semantic. That's very much the point, hopefully to foster better understanding, or at least discussion. It's a bit of thinking-out-loud indulgence. If you're cool with that, please chip in - I'm curious what people think.

- If she finds happiness in her pursits, rock on. She's well read, smart, capable young lady. I might be a bit glib where I disagree, but I respect her and her faculties. Her reasoning is expansive and convoluted; she's done a lot of research that would be doing injustice to compress into a post it here. She's shared a fair bit, it's well done and engineered to support the conclusions it posits.

- Yes, there's more to the story than what I presented, but I wanted to keep it concise. I have another friend who proclaims himself a fascist. I'm a pretty neutral party, I'd rather listen to what many different people say that tell people how to live. I'm curious.

Politics, religion, sexuality, lifestyle - these are all things that people assimilate or reject from their self identity and while it's obvious people often change how they look at the world over time, I'm not calling into question the SINCERITY of these labels... In perticular, though, I'm asking not if political BELIEF, but actual political AFFILIATION is possible in the absence of a supporting system?

EG: My friend, despite her communist values, lives and breathes and interacts with a capitalist society, supporting it through unavoidable commerce and interaction. A metalhead can exist independantly of a concert scene or fellow enthusiasts, a gay man can be gay in the absence of an accepting community, a religious man can practice by himself... but political affiliations seem different to me in that it's hard to have a party of one

[small]I'm very tried, and some of that might have gone off track, but I hope you can get what I'm going for. It is kinda abstract and ultimately unimportant - just a moot idea I was thinking about. I'm not trying to upset or talk down to anyone, so please don't take it that way... I was just wondering what you guys thought. I don't feel I have anything further to add, so please treat this as an open discussion and be respectful to one another. Thanks for your time and consideration [/small]

 

[A Satanic Panda]

snip

I think you just /thread your own thread.

However I do think if she really supports Communism (or a planned economy), she should visit Vietnam for a few years. Not saying it's not a great place to live, but it's not for everyone. Or if she want's to live somewhere where individualism is not at important as it is in Western society, she should live in Japan for a few years.

 

[Albino Boo]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Yeah those 20-60 million people that died under Stalin and the 45-75 million that died under Mao, should be ignored.

 

[A Satanic Panda]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Yeah those 20-60 million people that died under Stalin and the 45-75 million that died under Mao, should be ignored.

There is a big difference between the economic system that is Communism, and Totalitarianism.

 

[Pimppeter2]

The only logical conclusion is that we ship you and your friend to Siberia.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Yeah those 20-60 million people that died under Stalin and the 45-75 million that died under Mao, should be ignored.

As someone reading about Stalin and Mao at the moment, I agree. The perfect system has in the past demanded 'sacrifices for the good of everyone' that was just an excuse to liquidate all possible effective resistance and give the higher echelons of the party absolute power. Communism is beautiful in theory but human nature is decidedly against it's successful implementation.

The only logical conclusion is that we ship you and your friend to Siberia.

Long time no see.

 

[Realitycrash]

Can you be a nazi in the absence of nazism? I think the answer to that is yes.

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Unfortunately "communist" states are almost universally totalitarian dictatorships. Stalinist and Maoist states place power in the hands of a small group of individuals. They have used parts of communist political ideology and "collective" interest to justify terrible atrocities and deprivations of liberty. And the Western Far-Left all too often dismissed and denied such actions during the cold war, sympathising with the USSR and PRC. Could communist states have turned out differently? Possibly. There were no provisions for preserving liberty and justice - old guard, intellectuals, dissidents, and many more were mercilessly crushed by both the Soviet and Maoist governments, as they believed only in absolute domination according to their political lines. This might be because communist ideology itself tends towards authoritarian groupthink, which gives leaders a justification to eliminate potentially anyone as an enemy of the revolution. Perhaps the whole communism experiment would have turned out differently if the Bolsheviks had established a democratic constitutional framework preventing any one person or group from having too much power.

This.

And I in general support Communism as a theory, I just don't think it is plausible yet due to human nature and technology (I mean, c'mon, if we get Star Trek replicators and transporters, it might actually work out). I do however find Socialist Capitalism (high taxes, state-owned companies and certain state-owned production, etc) very viable (you know, because it has worked) and I fully support it.

 

[Nickolai77]

I see what you're getting at OP- Your friend could well be an anarchist in which case you'd be asking why does she obey the law?

I don't think there is anything too hypocritical about being a communist living in a capitalist society. Pragmatically, things are the way they are- she needs to buy food and entertainment for herself out of necessity even if she really thinks that ideally such things should be communally shared with everyone. That's what she's striving for.

You could be, for instance, a European Federalist even though the EU isn't a federation. You could be a Basque nationalist even if there is no Basque nation state. You can quite rightly identify with an ideology or a political idea if it hasn't been realised in the real world.

 

[Wayneguard]

She's not a Communist; she's just young and naive. When she is older and she has a family, a home and, hopefully, a job, she will realize just how much she really has to lose in the event of a violent revolution...

 

[DoPo]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Yeah those 20-60 million people that died under Stalin and the 45-75 million that died under Mao, should be ignored.

>implying that was Communism

I'd suggest you refresh your knowledge there. Communism really isn't that bad. But it's a utopia - a perfect imaginary society. I do like it, however, I realise it's not going to happen at least any time soon, if ever.

 

[RubyT]

I pointed out as politely as I could that the chance of sparking a revolution in a system where almost all citizens have vested interest, from property to social security (and more) would be implausibly low. But I digress...

They probably thought so in Greece five years ago...

 

[Signa]

Seems to me the confusion here is belief vs practice. Your friends believes communism, and therefore is a communist.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Obviously not in practice but in ideology she can be whatever the hell she wants to be.

A lot like Communist countries.

 

[Harkonnen64]

Thread just seems to be a bit pedantic.

Hhhmm yes, shallow and pedantic...

Also, have her sit down and force her to watch Red Dawn. If she isn't converted back to proper, American capitalism by the end of the movie, be sure to contact your local CIA field office at https://www.cia.gov/.

Trust us, we're the government.

 

[R Man]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Yeah those 20-60 million people that died under Stalin and the 45-75 million that died under Mao, should be ignored.

The only problem is those numbers are bollocks. Stalin's death toll is between 3-5 million and Mao's is unknown.

In any case Communism and it's political associates actually have some pretty good ideas. It has some bad ideas too, but that's always the case. Just as Capitalism has some good ideas and some bad ideas.

 

[spartan231490]

Just because you're in a church, doesn't mean you believe in god. Yes, of course she's a communist.

 

[Starik20X6]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Communism is fantastic... until you bring human nature into it. Unfortunately, the human mind [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number] just isn't properly equipped [http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html] for the unique challenges presented by a communist lifestyle, which is, the way I see it, the reason it tends to fail and/or produce undesirable results.

 

[o_O]

Communist shares a kind of root with commune. You know, a small group of people that share all their crap. Maybe a village of 150, where you know literally everyone. Communism works rather well in that instance. After all, you don't want to slack off since you know Joe's wife is having a kid, they can't really help out as much and the rest of the village really needs you for- etc etc. But once you go big, to millions that you don't personally know or care about... Well, people are liable to just revert to "fuck the other guy"-ism and just keep whatever they're supposed to be distributing for themselves. Which is what most "communist" states end up doing.

I'd actually bring up Dunbar's number at this point, but Starik beat me to it. It's rather crucial as to why this stuff falls apart at the national level, and why these corrupt leaders just don't care that they're ruining millions of lives.

It's all a shame. For a communist state to be successful, it would require the government to be compromised of uncorruptible paragons of saintly virtue, that care about everyone equally. And we all know how likely *that* is...