Poll: Nateropathic Doctors?

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Hashime

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Nateropathic Doctors? My mom took my sister to see this "doctor" whom she insists is qualified even though she in not a medical doctor, but thanks to recent Canadian legislation can write prescriptions. I think this person is a total scamer, who will possibly hurt my sister, any thoughts?
 

Wordslinger

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Apr 3, 2010
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Hashime said:
Nateropathic Doctors? My mom took my sister to see this "doctor" whom she insists is qualified even though she in not a medical doctor, but thanks to recent Canadian legislation can write prescriptions. I think this person is a total scamer, who will possibly hurt my sister, any thoughts?
Well, let's see: NO medical degree, NO formal training, AND doesn't believe in modern medical theories? How does any part of that sound good?
 

Deviltongue

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Feb 2, 2008
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I don't trust doctors in general. Anyone who can cut people up better than I can has something to hide...

In all seriousness, I went to a doctor who was an actual MD and a Naturopathic doctor. If you can find him then you won't have a problem.

PS: If you're in Toronto that's where he is.
 

jpoon

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Mar 26, 2009
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I definitely am not a fan of most modern doctors. I also realize that they can do some very good and very bad things, not to mention that they are whores to big pharma companies. Naturopathic doctors can do some good things and also do some bad things, but the are not beholden to any corporate entity. I would say to have her visit both a regular and naturopathic doctor and see what they both come up with maybe?
 

shotgunbob

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teh_pwning_dude said:
Doctors are fucking worthless. Naturopathy has done more for me than modern fucking medicine.

I fucking hate doctors.

Though I should ask, what's wrong with your sister?

Wordslinger said:
Well, let's see: NO medical degree, NO formal training, AND doesn't believe in modern medical theories? How does any part of that sound good?
Let's see, NO knowledge of this person or their training and NO knowledge of their personal views on modern medical theories. How is your post in any way credible?
It may be ones opinion but you can't argue that the life expectancy now is 3 times higher than it was before modern practices came along.
 

Last Bullet

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Apr 28, 2010
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Okay, wait, wait. Naturopathy... If I Google'd this right, it's "natural medicine," right? Herbs and stuff? Tends to shy away from modern medicine? Then why the hell can they write prescriptions for modern medicine?
 

Pimppeter2

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shotgunbob said:
teh_pwning_dude said:
Doctors are fucking worthless. Naturopathy has done more for me than modern fucking medicine.

I fucking hate doctors.

Though I should ask, what's wrong with your sister?

Wordslinger said:
Well, let's see: NO medical degree, NO formal training, AND doesn't believe in modern medical theories? How does any part of that sound good?
Let's see, NO knowledge of this person or their training and NO knowledge of their personal views on modern medical theories. How is your post in any way credible?
It may be ones opinion but you can't argue that the life expectancy now is 3 times higher than it was before modern practices came along.
Mostly due to better hygiene and varied diets.

Both of which are covered by Naturopathy.
 

Tardjerky

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Nov 27, 2009
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i dont know... if it wasn't for modern medicines such as chemo i wouldn't be alive... plus the doctors that treated me are more than just my doctors now. they're lifelong friends that did everything in their power to make me comfortable as i went through those torturous times.
 

Diligent

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My cousin is actually a Naturopath Doctor, and she did indeed study medicine and did many years of university. She could have gone into the field of being a "real doctor" as it were, but this interested her more.
She doesn't try any hocus-pocus shit on people, like give them random herbal concoctions, because thats not what naturopaths do.
She can tell a lot about your health by looking at your tongue, finger nails, and eyes. Things like vitamin or iron deficiencies, which can be corrected by taking the right vitamins, or eating the right food. (Where a real doctor might prescribe some migraine medication with side effects to mask the problem, leading to pills to take care of your side effects etc.)
EDIT: I just realized this last bit makes it look like I think doctors are conspiring against us, but I actually have the utmost respect for doctors and how they help people.

But on topic, if you think this person is a fraud or something, ask them where they studied medicine and a bit about their qualifications. Any normal person would be happy and proud to tell you that.
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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The term "Doctor", as well as others such as "Dentist" and "Nurse" are regulated tites, you have to have necessary qualifications. So yes a naturopath is not a doctor.
Wordslinger said:
Well, let's see: NO medical degree, NO formal training, AND doesn't believe in modern medical theories? How does any part of that sound good?
Basically this...
teh_pwning_dude said:
Doctors are fucking worthless. Naturopathy has done more for me than modern fucking medicine.
jpoon said:
Naturopathic doctors can do some good things and also do some bad things, but the are not beholden to any corporate entity. I would say to have her visit both a regular and naturopathic doctor and see what they both come up with maybe?
Theres are things called systematic reviews and meta-analysises, where they compile all of the studies that have been done on a certain drug/intervention. Good or bad results, they all get combined to produce the most accurate results.

The best study that can be done is a randomised control trial, usually blinded in a manner that both the researcher and subjects have no idea which is the intervention and what is a placebo (or more commonly now the gold standard intervention).

In conventional medicine, interventions require tenuous trials and research to institue a form of treatment. In alternative medicine, there's barely any research supporting their claims and if it does exist it's hugely biased.

So not only can alternative therapy not be effective, it can in turn be dangerous. For example the much lauded "anti-oxidants" have actualy been shown to increase risks of certain cancers, some alternative remedies can induce anaphlaxis and St John's wort can interefere with anti-deppressants.

Diligent said:
My cousin is actually a Naturopath Doctor, and she did indeed study medicine and did many years of university. She could have gone into the field of being a "real doctor" as it were, but this interested her more.
She doesn't try any hocus-pocus shit on people, like give them random herbal concoctions, because thats not what naturopaths do.
She can tell a lot about your health by looking at your tongue, finger nails, and eyes. Things like vitamin or iron deficiencies, which can be corrected by taking the right vitamins, or eating the right food. (Where a real doctor might prescribe some migraine medication with side effects to mask the problem, leading to pills to take care of your side effects etc.)
I don't know your cousin or her degree. But a problem with most alternative practitioners is they overexaggerate the complexity of stuff. Yes a good diet and exercise is probably the most important thing you can do to prevent illness, but for example adding extra vitamin C to your diet is not going to prevent cancer, you'll just crap out the excess.

Pimppeter2 said:
Mostly due to better hygiene and varied diets.

Both of which are covered by Naturopathy.
Actually those are covered by nurses, occupational therapists and clinical dieticians (who are different to nutritionists, as they are a regulated profession and have lots of training)
 

JemJar

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Feb 17, 2009
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teh_pwning_dude said:
Holy irrelevant points Batman!

Alternative medicine is dangerous. Conventional medicine is dangerous. Cool story Hansel.

He hasn't even told us what his sister is ill with, how can we make judgement calls?

And regardless of your goddamn studies, I've yet to meet a doctor who didnt piss me off to the point I wanted to smack them. They're arrogant cunts who don't believe in anything that can't be proven by their little fucking textbooks. You've got the flu? I'm sure they're great. You've got something uncommon? You're better of seeing a naturopath because doctors will just fuck you up. Christ, you're better off asking a dog for medical advice than any prick in a hospital.
Holy Generalisation Batman!
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
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teh_pwning_dude said:
1st point, I'll give up on arguing this, but when you get pancreatitis, type 2 diabetes or colon cancer which statistically you might get, I hope your oppinion changes.

Also something uncommon not being picked up? That's what doctors strive for, they'll pick up rare stuff like systemic lupus erythemia (a nasty autoimmune disease) while a naturopath will still be giving an ointment for what looks like a nasty rash.

I'd say your actually safer on the rare stuff than the common, with a doctor.

2nd, Okay yes doctors can be quite unsociable but that's because the previous generations were often accepted only on marks, modern course require interviews and other examinations that don't solely focus on marks. They also have a bigger focus on interactions with patients. So hopefully the next generation of doctors will be more...well human. But another factor is the amount of hours doctors work and the cut-throat nature of specialist training. A doctor may seem rude because he's been awake 40hrs in a row and that's a problem with the medical system, funding and the government. And the sort of person who trains for 11 years, often re-locating where they live for training and has to brown-nose their way to the top, because basically that remnant of the old patriachal system is still in place, may be arrogantly simply because it's a mechanism to advance and surivive that system. But that with time this is changing also as the older doctors die/retire.

Third, I wasn't saying they didn't give similar advice, but rather that there are people in equal positions but more qualified to talk to you about the topics.
teh_pwning_dude said:
Do you even know anything about it?
Actually I know a lot, I've completed three years of a five year medical dyegree, which would actually qualify me for a degree in public health if I dropped out now. I've covered both epidemiolgy/research and alternative medicine. I have learnt how to anaylse studies and evidence and can talk at length about all sorts of complementary medicine.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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teh_pwning_dude said:
Doctors are fucking worthless. Naturopathy has done more for me than modern fucking medicine.

I fucking hate doctors.

Though I should ask, what's wrong with your sister?

Wordslinger said:
Well, let's see: NO medical degree, NO formal training, AND doesn't believe in modern medical theories? How does any part of that sound good?
Let's see, NO knowledge of this person or their training and NO knowledge of their personal views on modern medical theories. How is your post in any way credible?
Because, assuming the allegations presented are true (lack of a medical degree, lack of formal training and a dismissal of modern medical practices) one ought to be suspicious. Training of this sort exists for a reason and many modern medical practices are used precisely because they have been demonstrated to be effective.

Of course, regular well trained doctors make plenty of mistakes themselves and many medical practices have proven to be detrimental over the long run on more than one occasion. Still, I'd rather trust the sort of doctor who is expected to live up to a professional standard than one who is not.

I would also point out that different aspects of Naturopathy have different levels of acceptance. The presumption that the best cure for a malady is the bodie's natural healing process seems reasonable enough, so long as such healing is actually possible in a given circumstance. Most people I know of who have tried such things did so after exhausting other options and they met with variable success. Most people practice aspects of it to a degree - attempting to follow a healthy diet for example, or consuming certain types of food and drink when ill.
 

Yureina

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May 6, 2010
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I'm scared of normal doctors, much less ones with strange titles I don't understand. So, i'd probably flee somewhere far away. >_<
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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teh_pwning_dude said:
BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.

"What doctors strive for?" Fuck no. If they don't know what it is, they tell you it doesn't exist. They make shit up. They don't care. Me and my friends have been through too much medical shit to ever believe that doctors "strive for" rare cases. I spent a year of my life feeling absolutely nothing, not even fucking hunger, and I was dismissed by every fucking doctor and specialist I saw. The only people willing to give me the time of day and even try to fucking help were people in alternative medicine. My friend became allergic to sunlight and doctors blamed it on his fucking parents. Don't you dare tell me that people in that worthless fucking profession give a shit about anything they can't instantly diagnose.
You've had a bad experience, it's obviously affected you and I'm sorry but that's not every doctor. When I was in the ICU, I saw brilliant doctors tearing themselves apart to try and save a patient's life and I've seen horrible doctors who've ignored and misdiagnosed patients. Doctors are still human, there's good ones and there's bad ones.

A huge benefit of alternative practitioners is that they can give more attention to a patient, Doctors are often rushing and backed up, they can't spend a lot of time with a patient. It's been shown that people feel better if they can talk to people about their condition regardless of their profession or qualification.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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teh_pwning_dude said:
So you suggest we just assume this person is untrained and doesn't believe in conventional medicine?

Why don't we also assume that they're a psychopath or professional con artist?

Yeah, let's just assume some shit. That'll work.
Given that this was the extent of the information presented and we are unlikely to get information that contradicts this, then yes. Nautorpathic doctors do not have formally recognized training or schooling. This does not indicate they are incapable of performing the essential task of healing, nor does it imply they are any less adept than a normal doctor. It simply implies that there is no standard in place and often no formal acceptance of their practices.

And, if you could, please refrain from resorting to a rhetorical fallacy in your second sentance of a reply. It'd make it much easier to take your position seriously.