Poll: Rape is totally okay to joke about, right guys?

Aug 25, 2009
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Slayer_2 said:
MelasZepheos said:
Your response shows a lack of basic human empathy. You don't have the capacity to understand my feelings or the feelings of the girl in my story. If you truly did, you wouldn't make a joke, and you wouldn't laugh if it was made. The distance rovided by the internet has stripped you of a very basic human brain function.

In wanting to make the joke, and displaying the lack of empathy, you put yourself on the level of other people who can't understand emotions, like psychopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder, also, you display a lot of the signs in your post of someone with anti-social personality disorder. All of these are mental conditions. And it isn't just the anonymity of the internet. The fact that you want to make these jokes reveals signs of sadistic personality disorder, deriving humour or pleasure from the taunting and pain of other human beings.
Wow, your shrink skills are off the chart. Looks to me like we have ourselves a regular internet psychiatrist here. Tell me, where'd you go for schooling? I haven't yet heard of a place that allows you to diagnose someone as a "psychopath" or sufferer of a "narcissistic personality disorder" through a few paragraphs of TEXT posted on the INTERNET. Usually this kinda thing takes hours of face-to-face discussion, and months to determine, but fuck due process! Please, I'd rather be raped than listen to your high-horse ramblings. Oh, see what I did there? Go ahead, call me a "psychopath with narcissistic personality disorder", I have a clean bill of health, so your uninformed and poorly formed classification of my mental state means as much as a pigeon shit to me, less actually, as those could get in my hair on my beautiful car.

.
Heh.

Empathy is the understanding of human emotions.

Lack of it is one of the signs of narcissistic personality disorder, psychopathy or anti-social personality disorder.

Joking about an actual rape, not a hypothetical situation involving one (which is what you presented), shows a lack of empathy towards the victim and the people who know them.

Joking about a real rape case shows a lack of empathy which can be a sign of psychopathy or narcissistic personality disorder.

If you care to read my post in full, you'll notice I never said they were psychopaths or narcissistic. I said that the text they had written showed signs that are consistent with the disorders. Forensic psychologists examine the text that psychopaths write all the time, including what they write on the internet, and use it to build a full diagnosis.

I attended Lancaster University and Wymondham College High School and Sixth Form College. At both I studied Psychology, in university specifically forensic psychology, and at High School I did my end of year project on psychopaths.

As for your mental state, I'd probably take a wild guess at 'angry at what I have said because you think I'm talking out of my arse.'

Where did you get your clean bill of health and how recently did you have some sort of psychological test? The sort of anger and rage you're displaying can't be good for you long term. It might lead to stress, insomnia, and even depression.
 

Eynimeb

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Slayer_2 said:
MelasZepheos said:
Your response shows a lack of basic human empathy. You don't have the capacity to understand my feelings or the feelings of the girl in my story. If you truly did, you wouldn't make a joke, and you wouldn't laugh if it was made. The distance rovided by the internet has stripped you of a very basic human brain function.

In wanting to make the joke, and displaying the lack of empathy, you put yourself on the level of other people who can't understand emotions, like psychopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder, also, you display a lot of the signs in your post of someone with anti-social personality disorder. All of these are mental conditions. And it isn't just the anonymity of the internet. The fact that you want to make these jokes reveals signs of sadistic personality disorder, deriving humour or pleasure from the taunting and pain of other human beings.
Wow, your shrink skills are off the chart. Looks to me like we have ourselves a regular internet psychiatrist here. Tell me, where'd you go for schooling? I haven't yet heard of a place that allows you to diagnose someone as a "psychopath" or sufferer of a "narcissistic personality disorder" through a few paragraphs of TEXT posted on the INTERNET. Usually this kinda thing takes hours of face-to-face discussion, and months to determine, but fuck due process! Please, I'd rather be raped than listen to your high-horse ramblings. Oh, see what I did there? Go ahead, call me a "psychopath with narcissistic personality disorder", I have a clean bill of health, so your uninformed and poorly formed classification of my mental state means as much as a pigeon shit to me, less actually, as those could get in my hair on my beautiful car.

Raven said:
The same can be applied to bullying, torture and homophobia.
The problem is, no one raises a huge shit storm over those topics. Why? Why is rape so much worse? That is my real issue with it. My theory is sexual taboo.
I have been forced to deal with multiple sociopaths for most of my life. I may not be a psychologist or psychiatrist, but this thread, including that post of yours, is making my sociopath geiger counter go nuts.

The reason why a sociopath will never take an empath's point of view, is that a sociopath's logic makes sense - when you take empathy out of the equation. Every bit of logic makes sense, when you remove all consideration for other people. From that point of view, there is no reason to pull any punches when it comes to what one can or cannot say, other than what one can legally get away with.

Your statement of 'rather be raped then listen to...' is indicative of a person who has neither experienced rape, nor has any empathy for people who have.
 

Darkmantle

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Threeseventyfive said:
Unfair poll is unfair

I'd say if it's a joke, and not actually condoning rape, it's okay.
yeah the poll is unfair, it's supposed to be a parody of another thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.381527-Poll-Daniel-Tosh-threatens-Woman-with-Gang-Rape?page=1

this one.
 

artanis_neravar

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MelasZepheos said:
artanis_neravar said:
Dude, you challenged then to make a joke about it, there is a very high chance that they wouldn't have thought to make a joke if you hadn't pushed the issue by telling them to make a joke

yes technically you didn't tell them to, but it was close enough
I presented a true story about a girl being raped and said 'do you feel like making a joke about this?' and they said yes. A normal human being wouldn't. They would look at that situation and say 'Jesus, that is a terrible thing.' Make fun of people on HuffPost calling for the reinstatement of the Death Penalty every time someone says the Duchess of Cambridge looks a little fat, but I would rather a race of humans with too much empathy than those for whom the response is 'I can make this funny somehow, because no topic is taboo.'

And even then, it's not so much the desire to, it's also the ability to. I couldn't even think about the topic long enough to think up a joke about raping women. They had theirs in a few hours. That suggests something bad to me.
No you presented a story and then said, and I quote

MelasZepheos said:
Want to make a joke?
"Do you feel like" is a completely different question than "do you want", "Do you want" is just challenging them to come up with something even if they wouldn't have to begin with. Even "Do you feel like" gives the impression that you only told the story to guilt them into not making a joke, if you had wanted to make your point you could have just told the story and left it at that.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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Slayer_2 said:
Please, I'd rather be raped than listen to your high-horse ramblings.
And that's where we get off thinking that you find empathy to be a foreign concept.
 

Slayer_2

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MelasZepheos said:
Heh.

Empathy is the understanding of human emotions.
Cool, I never really asked, but fun fact, I suppose.

Lack of it is one of the signs of narcissistic personality disorder, psychopathy or anti-social personality disorder.
More relevant, I enjoy the walkthrough. Still, one possible sign of a disorder means little in a science in which a single symptom could be attributed to a bunch of different things. Most likely, it is just the anonymity of the internet, yet you go implying all kinds of extreme disorders.

Joking about an actual rape, not a hypothetical situation involving one (which is what you presented), shows a lack of empathy towards the victim and the people who know them.
But holocaust jokes are fine? Or more recently and more common, 9/11 jokes or racist Rwanda jokes? Because, I never hear about any stir over those, except from my ex, she sounded a lot like you. Maybe it's because dying is far better than rape...

Joking about a real rape case shows a lack of empathy which can be a sign of psychopathy or narcissistic personality disorder.
People joke about bad shit all the time. Sometimes you find it's laugh awkwardly or cry.

If you care to read my post in full, you'll notice I never said they were psychopaths or narcissistic. I said that the text they had written showed signs that are consistent with the disorders. Forensic psychologists examine the text that psychopaths write all the time, including what they write on the internet, and use it to build a full diagnosis.
It was implied rather well. Creating any kind of diagnosis without seeing the "patient" (used loosely here) is a very poor idea. Internet anonymity and in your case, lack of time and evidence to support any such claims or implications makes it rather moot.

I attended Lancaster University and Wymondham College High School and Sixth Form College. At both I studied Psychology, in university specifically forensic psychology, and at High School I did my end of year project on psychopaths.
Still missing the course that taught reading people over the internet from a single text post, you must tell me what it is, I want to sign up for it next year...

As for your mental state, I'd probably take a wild guess at 'angry at what I have said because you think I'm talking out of my arse.'
I enjoy the wild guess, but again, you missed your mark. You may have missed the scathing sarcasm and mistaken my contemptuous attitude for anger, but really, it was just me being humoured by your post. Even the implication that you might be able to read someone over the net from a single post is laughable, a professional like you should know that.

Where did you get your clean bill of health and how recently did you have some sort of psychological test? The sort of anger and rage you're displaying can't be good for you long term. It might lead to stress, insomnia, and even depression.
Few years back, my mom bought into the whole "blame a disorder for every quirk". Back then I was an unpopular little shit, mostly because I spent my life with my nose in a book, plus I hid what little social life I had. Now I work a good job (for myself), live a stress free life, sleep like a baby (9 hours a day, minimum), and do all the "normal" teenage bullshit. Well, except weed, because I don't need a drug to be happy. People tend to enjoy a guy who can make any situation funny, and who doesn't take themselves seriously, I don't need to be a shrink to tell you that ;)

Raven said:
I think those issues do get raised. Rape is just a much higher profile subject. I'm sure I don't need to spell out why we as a society consider rape one of the worst crimes? That probably goes a long way to explaining why it is worse to joke about it.
But murder is better? Torture is better? Genocide is better? Rape is bad, but if you insist on grading it on a scale, I'd put it under those things, and the law would agree.

lacktheknack said:
Please, I'd rather be raped than listen to your high-horse ramblings.
And that's where we get off thinking that you find empathy to be a foreign concept.[/quote]#missedthejoke Ugh, I just hashtagged, I feel like I should shoot myself. Oh whoops, I just did it again. #umadb - STOP, bad Adam, you don't even have twitter. Seriously, you don't know shit about me, stop implying.

Eynimeb said:
I have been forced to deal with multiple sociopaths for most of my life. I may not be a psychologist or psychiatrist, but this thread, including that post of yours, is making my sociopath geiger counter go nuts.

The reason why a sociopath will never take an empath's point of view, is that a sociopath's logic makes sense - when you take empathy out of the equation. Every bit of logic makes sense, when you remove all consideration for other people. From that point of view, there is no reason to pull any punches when it comes to what one can or cannot say, other than what one can legally get away with.

Your statement of 'rather be raped then listen to...' is indicative of a person who has neither experienced rape, nor has any empathy for people who have.
Never heard of a sociopath Geiger Counter before, got to get me one of em! I'll trade you for my "joke detecting radar". Very useful, can pick up all jokes flying under 5,000 feet, no matter the speed or complexity. Great tool, you could use it, not perfect with the sarcasm, though.

Go ahead, say you're never said "I'd rather die than X activity", I doubt you've experienced death before. Either you're full of bullshit, or you're the most boring human ever, and I'm glad we'll never meet, as drinking with you would have little potential.

Also on an unrelated Post Script, the poll makes a lot of sense to me now, well played you intrepid troll, well played.
 

Riki Darnell

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itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
 

Slayer_2

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Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
Actually, being a woman kind of does provide them with an excuse. No one said life was fair.

Good ol' Rick here sounds like the kind of person I like to chill with, people who take things too seriously are boring and don't enjoy life.
 

itsthesheppy

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Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
If that stuff doesn't effect you, then good for you. I don't say that to be condescending; I mean it. That's good, your life is probably more stress-free than some other people. But you live in a world where there are people who really do get affected by that language. Who either have trauma attached to the words, or just feel uncomfortable about them. We need to be respectful and wary of that. It's not fair to walk up to someone, stick your hand down their pants, and when they get uncomfortable you roll your eyes at them and go, "Come on, man. *I* don't mind when people stick their hands down my pants. Get over it."

Slayer_2 said:
Actually, being a woman kind of does provide them with an excuse. No one said life was fair.

Good ol' Rick here sounds like the kind of person I like to chill with, people who take things too seriously are boring and don't enjoy life.
Nah, I don't think it does, frankly. Not if you're going to take the idea of morality and ethical conduct seriously. Double standards are always bad, and I would personally like to live in a society that didn't have them.

Also, speaking as someone who takes this stuff very seriously, I have a great time, I love life, so fix yo face.
 

Riki Darnell

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itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
"If that stuff doesn't effect you, then good for you. I don't say that to be condescending; I mean it. That's good, your life is probably more stress-free than some other people. But you live in a world where there are people who really do get affected by that language. Who either have trauma attached to the words, or just feel uncomfortable about them. We need to be respectful and wary of that. It's not fair to walk up to someone, stick your hand down their pants, and when they get uncomfortable you roll your eyes at them and go, "Come on, man. *I* don't mind when people stick their hands down my pants. Get over it.""

^
(sorry about not having yours in a quote box I accidentally erased part of it and wasn't sure how to put it back)



I do agree not everyone is the same and some are more sensitive than others, but walking up to someone on the street and doing something against their will is different than saying something in a comedy club. If you're going to go watch someone you should probably watch a clip of them on youtube to see if you like their style of humor first. Also, if she really didn't like the joke she should have just gotten up and left or not said anything. Everyone knows when you heckle a comedian you're going to get it back 10x worse :/
 

itsthesheppy

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Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
"If that stuff doesn't effect you, then good for you. I don't say that to be condescending; I mean it. That's good, your life is probably more stress-free than some other people. But you live in a world where there are people who really do get affected by that language. Who either have trauma attached to the words, or just feel uncomfortable about them. We need to be respectful and wary of that. It's not fair to walk up to someone, stick your hand down their pants, and when they get uncomfortable you roll your eyes at them and go, "Come on, man. *I* don't mind when people stick their hands down my pants. Get over it.""

^
(sorry about not having yours in a quote box I accidentally erased part of it and wasn't sure how to put it back)



I do agree not everyone is the same and some are more sensitive than others, but walking up to someone on the street and doing something against their will is different than saying something in a comedy club. If you're going to go watch someone you should probably watch a clip of them on youtube to see if you like their style of humor first. Also, if she really didn't like the joke she should have just gotten up and left or not said anything. Everyone knows when you heckle a comedian you're going to get it back 10x worse :/
I don't agree with the sentiment that she "should have kept her mouth shut". I also don't agree with the idea that just because it was in a comedy club, that it's okay.

Can nobody see how this is more victim blaming at work? It's not Tosh's fault that he made a truly unfunny comeback joke to a heckler. It's her fault for not finding rape jokes funny. It's her problem, not ours.

The analogy fits because when you say words and put thoughts into people's heads, that's you doing it, not them. A baboon dressed up like a clown on a unicycle. Though of it, did you? Did you want to? No, I made you. That's the power we have over each other, and we need to respect that power and treat it, and other people, with respect.

All Tosh had to say is, "Look, there's going to be rape jokes in my act. If you don't like them, you're welcome to leave. Get your money back. Sorry for the offense but, forewarning, there's going to be more, so its your choice if you want to stay."

A funny response? No. Know what's less funny? Saying it's be hilarious if she got gang-raped right there in the audience. If I were that girl's boyfriend, I would probably have had words with him. In private, after the show. In a raised tone of voice.
 

Riki Darnell

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Dec 23, 2011
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itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
itsthesheppy said:
Riki Darnell said:
I've made rape jokes and I'm a girl. As long as it's funny I don't think anything is out of bounds.
Just to be fair, your gender doesn't necessarily grant you rights the other gender does not possess. If it's not okay for guys, it's not okay for girls.

Also, I don't think rape jokes are okay.
Ah, well I meant it more like as a girl I don't get offended by jokes about girls being raped.(or any sort of sexism joke for that matter) I hang around a lot of guys so I've heard it all. I mean I don't find every rape joke funny, but I'm not put off by them either. I feel like with comedy there shouldn't been any "off limits" subjects. But to each his own tho.
"If that stuff doesn't effect you, then good for you. I don't say that to be condescending; I mean it. That's good, your life is probably more stress-free than some other people. But you live in a world where there are people who really do get affected by that language. Who either have trauma attached to the words, or just feel uncomfortable about them. We need to be respectful and wary of that. It's not fair to walk up to someone, stick your hand down their pants, and when they get uncomfortable you roll your eyes at them and go, "Come on, man. *I* don't mind when people stick their hands down my pants. Get over it.""

^
(sorry about not having yours in a quote box I accidentally erased part of it and wasn't sure how to put it back)



I do agree not everyone is the same and some are more sensitive than others, but walking up to someone on the street and doing something against their will is different than saying something in a comedy club. If you're going to go watch someone you should probably watch a clip of them on youtube to see if you like their style of humor first. Also, if she really didn't like the joke she should have just gotten up and left or not said anything. Everyone knows when you heckle a comedian you're going to get it back 10x worse :/
I don't agree with the sentiment that she "should have kept her mouth shut". I also don't agree with the idea that just because it was in a comedy club, that it's okay.

Can nobody see how this is more victim blaming at work? It's not Tosh's fault that he made a truly unfunny comeback joke to a heckler. It's her fault for not finding rape jokes funny. It's her problem, not ours.

The analogy fits because when you say words and put thoughts into people's heads, that's you doing it, not them. A baboon dressed up like a clown on a unicycle. Though of it, did you? Did you want to? No, I made you. That's the power we have over each other, and we need to respect that power and treat it, and other people, with respect.

All Tosh had to say is, "Look, there's going to be rape jokes in my act. If you don't like them, you're welcome to leave. Get your money back. Sorry for the offense but, forewarning, there's going to be more, so its your choice if you want to stay."

A funny response? No. Know what's less funny? Saying it's be hilarious if she got gang-raped right there in the audience. If I were that girl's boyfriend, I would probably have had words with him. In private, after the show. In a raised tone of voice.
Well I don't think a comic should have to say anything prior to an act to tell people that what they are going to joke about. Tosh is a fairly famous person so why didn't she just google him or watch a youtube clip of his stand-up before deciding to go watch someone she knows nothing about? I just feel like the incident could have been avoided had she done some research.

I think there is a huge difference between saying something and meaning it. I'm sure he had no bad intentions towards her or actually wished that she would get raped. Like I said I have guy friends who will talk really offensive s**t while we play games together but at the end of the day I'm not mad at them because I know they didn't truly mean it. It's all fun and games just need to take it with a grain of salt :D

And yes you did make me think of a baboon clown on a unicycle...
 

artanis_neravar

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itsthesheppy said:
I don't agree with the sentiment that she "should have kept her mouth shut". I also don't agree with the idea that just because it was in a comedy club, that it's okay.
Let me ask you have you ever heard the term "fighting words"? She made a comment with the specific intent of causing some sort of problem for the comedian.

Can nobody see how this is more victim blaming at work? It's not Tosh's fault that he made a truly unfunny comeback joke to a heckler. It's her fault for not finding rape jokes funny. It's her problem, not ours.
Tosh was the victim of heckling so why are you blaming him?

The analogy fits because when you say words and put thoughts into people's heads, that's you doing it, not them. A baboon dressed up like a clown on a unicycle. Though of it, did you?
nope
Did you want to?
nope
No, I made you.
No you didn't make me do anything
That's the power we have over each other, and we need to respect that power and treat it, and other people, with respect.
you have no power over someone that they don't let you have.

All Tosh had to say is, "Look, there's going to be rape jokes in my act. If you don't like them, you're welcome to leave. Get your money back. Sorry for the offense but, forewarning, there's going to be more, so its your choice if you want to stay."
Why is it Tosh's responsibility to inform people what he normally jokes about every show? why isn't the responsibility of the customer to make sure they know what they are getting tickets for?

A funny response? No. Know what's less funny? Saying it's be hilarious if she got gang-raped right there in the audience. If I were that girl's boyfriend, I would probably have had words with him. In private, after the show. In a raised tone of voice.
You wouldn't be able to get a private meeting with him