Poll: rape worse than murder?

[Jamieson 90]

There's a really easy way to sort this out.

Someone puts a gun to your head and says "Take off your pants and bend over or I'm going to kill you." They do this whilst unzipping their own trousers making it obvious what they intend to do.

How many of you refuse knowing you're going to die?

You see, rape is a terrible thing, a truly horrible thing. But death is worse, much much worse, and when confronted with death, don't ever underestimate a human's drive for survival. That absolute instinct to do anything to ensure you don't die.

We can all say in the comfort and safety of our homes that rape is much worse, that we'd rather die than be subjected to such a terrible and horrific thing, but in the moment very few if any would go through with it.

Rape is a horrific thing that can ruin your life, sometimes.

Death will end your life, always.

 

[runic knight]

So which is worse, the taking of your very life, or the taking of sexual action towards you against your will? Seems kinda obvious murder is the worse of the two as a general stance (individual opinions may vary). I'll ignore the unasked questions regarding what sort of murder and what sort of definition of rape and assume both are the premeditated and violent kind for the sake of this post. Otherwise you could end up with some odd comparison such as someone sleeping with another while drunk (which has been defined by some as lacking proper consent, thus rape) compared to a Saw-style torture murder. So going to keep it simple as can.
It is asking if a permanent end of life is worse then a temporary traumatic experience. Yes, the experience can leave deep scars in the memory, but that is still better then no more life. Even a hard life allows chance for growth, overcoming, or leaving a positive impact on the world to remember you by, Death is final.

 

[Lightknight]

snip

Yes I would rather be murdered. I am legit terrified of being raped. I honestly do not think I could ever recover from it. I've already had things happen to me in my past I am still not over(abusive relationship) that make moving on difficult. Rape would be enough to send me over the edge. It wouldn't "make me stronger", it would drive me insane. Not everyone has the ability to get stronger and move on. Not everyone is going to recover. Yeah, there are some people who are able to, and that is amazing. But most victims are traumatized their entire life and some really would prefer death. The emotions involved are horrible. Imagine being skinned alive and being left to suffer. That is what it is like in an emotional sense. Like I said, I know some rape victims, and many of them sometimes do feel like death would have been less painful. They're trying to move on but the wounds reopen. This is a form of torture to me. At least death ends that pain. Like it or not you're going to encounter people who don't like having to "move on" and do not have the strength required to. At least one of the people I know said it's like constantly walking on broken glass barefoot, but you have to keep going because there's no choice. Some days are better than others, obviously, but there is always more broken glass ahead.

Do you believe that most victims are able to live normal healthy lives afterwards or that most victims aren't?

From what little I've seen, far more move on with their lives and get as far past it as they can.

But with murder there is no choice, no option to go on. With rape, the option is always there, as macabre as it sounds.

At the risk of being a total ass, do you honestly believe that person? That their lives are just one long constant reminder of a single event in their lives and it is as sharp as broken glass? I can't imagine what kind of an invasion of privacy it is, but that sounds a bit more dramatic than I'd expect. Was the individual recently assaulted or had it been a significant time ago? The individuals I've spoken to weren't anywhere close to being that extreme about it. But I'm sure it impacts different people in different ways.

While it's absolutely terrible. I think it's more important to establish that life afterwards is entirely viable. It is not likely to be anything like that but there will be psychological issues that will need to be addressed. A message of hope is vital here. You are terrified of it happening and it has not happened. The time is now to learn that people survive these things and move on the vast majority of the time.

I am extremely glad that the 1 in 5 women statistic ended up being false.

Have you ever experienced a traumatic event? Do you think about it all the time? Probably not? You probably go days, weeks, months without considering it. Then, every now and then it spikes and you have to deal with those emotions whether you want to or not. But then it subsides and you have life again. That, I understand.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

If I was forced to pick getting raped or getting murdered, I would pick getting raped... so, murder?

Murder can be committed in the heat of the moment. Rape can't.

Wrong. That's not murder, that's manslaughter.

Once you've been murdered, you can't be murdered again. Not so for rape.

Yeah, because your dead. By your logic hitting your toe on the night table is worse than murder since you can do it again, but you can't get murdered again.

Murder can be committed in seconds, rape can't.

And? The duration of the act means little. If I rob a bank in 5 minues is it somehow less of a crime than if I took 20 minutes for it? Or to keep it a bit more on topic, I can take several hours to murder someone while rape can last as little as a minute.

Rape is used to subdue, break and control a person. Murder isn't.

I'm sorry, what?
Murder is basically THE ultimate control over a person. You literally control his life. Also no, it's not inherently used to subdue, break and control a person. It's used to fulfill your desires. Those things are a rather bad side effect.

Murder can be sudden and without pain and suffering. Rape can't.

Yes it can.

 

[Seanfall]

Why is there no 'Both are equally horrible' option? Either act is terrible. To murder someone is to take away a life, everything they were, are or could be is gone forever. It's an act that...well like a mirror being shattered the cracks spread out from the point of impact. (the victim) and hurts others. The Loved ones that person left behind, friends it alters everyone evolved.

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

On either crime, it is not the Victim's fault. Nothing they did justifies the action against them. There is no 'asking for it' ever. I'm of the opinion that Rapists should suffer the same fate as Murderer's. Life Imprisonment.

Not pedos though. Those people you just hang and let em rot.

 

[Lightknight]

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

It is a traumatic experience, but do you really think it is equivalent to "the mirror shattering"?

I'm not talking about whether or not it's actually terrible, it is. But do you think if given an option between a bullet to your head or a traumatic experience that is rape that you'd be indifferent between the two?

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.

 

[Signa]

Just so everyone is aware, the last time this question was asked, I answered it flatly, and got put on probation in one strike with no chance of dismissal. The thread was locked too. Tread lightly.

 

[chuckman1]

I think it's worth making clear what sort of rape we're talking about, as there are various kinds. For example, an 18 year old who has sex with a 16 year old, even if they're in a consented relationship, is technically considered a form of rape. Often doctors or teachers who have sex with students, even if they're of a legal age of consent, is also considered rape. So is a sober person having sex with an intoxicated person. These scenarios, in my mind, aren't comparable whatsoever with forceable or blackmail rape.

Just an important distinction to consider, I think.

I meant violent forceful rape maybe I should have added that in the topic.

 

[kissthebottle]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Thank you. This. Very much. I don't think the two are even comparable at ALL. Maybe if you said "which is worse? Sexual assault or physical assault?" At least both of those aren't finite and are both types of assault. Not that the argument would be any better.

I actually have been raped. Obviously it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me and has messed me up in so many ways that still haunt me and effect me to this day. I can't say I would have rather been murdered, buuuuuuut again, moot point etc. I can't even begin to compare the two. And if I'm being frank I think it's kind of insulting, even in this vast super vast discussion of hypothetical scenarios to rape survivors (myself included), not that I think that was your intention, OP, but an oversight perhaps? I also don't think, or would hope to think no one is justifying rape if they choose murder as being a more heinous crime, for the record...I just think a discussion like this may unintentionally diminish the traumas/PTSD/experiences of rape survivors.

Again, I think physical violence and sexual violence are more comparable if you're trying to have a conducive discussion. Survivors of both live through their experiences, both can experience trauma and both can intersect.

Also

I think rape victims need more support than they get though.

Thank you. This cannot be emphasized enough. People most definitely feel pity for murder victims and their loved ones (generally, not always). But rape survivors are often put under some shitty microscope if they try to go after their rapist (which is why most rapes aren't reported and rapists go free). The justice system is very very beyond fucked when it comes to rape cases.


A mini pat on the back to me for being able to talk about this stuff with strangers and not be triggered. I think it's important to talk about, but holy shit it's difficult.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This would depend. Rape is a form of torture, death is the end.

What about rape where the victim is unconscious and may not even realize they've been raped? Is that still torture?

Yes, simply because they sedated you to remove your fingernail it would still be considered torture because you have to live with this having been done to you afterwards, sure you will heal but that does not take away from the fact that this burden and abuse was forced upon you against your will. Unlike what some may think, women can tell when they have been penetrated, you can feel this AFTERWARDS as well. Anal penetration for both males and females can be quite physically painful as well. They still have to live with this rape having happened to them, it is entirely up to the circumstance and the individual though how that it affects their life. They could be given an STD, they could be impregnated, they could have had their virginity taken, damage could have been done physically and then of course there are many psychological factors involved as well to be considered regardless of if the person was conscious or unconscious during the attack.

 

[chadachada123]

I'm going to get crucified for this but it must be said:

Not only is murder far far worse than rape, rape is completely equivelant to torture and can be said to be just a different type of it.

I think the reason people think that rape is so bad is born of sexism, the notion that women that were raped are now "less" off a women or "defiled" is drilled into our heads from a young age causing us to view the act as ridiculously bad (it's still a pretty horrible thing to do) and make the victims think of themselves as lesser people.

This more or less fit my thoughts exactly. That said, I would, personally, prefer a swift death to torture (of the prolonged variety).

 

[one squirrel]

Anyone who thinks that living with being raped is worse than being dead should also be advocating for the euthanasia of rape victims. Just putting it out there.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

Anyone who thinks that living with being raped is worse than being dead should also be advocating for the euthanasia of rape victims. Just putting it out there.

Not necessarily. It depends what actually happens when you die. Do you cease to exist? I could see then thinking that murder is worse because a life was entirely snuffed out. On the otherhand... (tangent into Religion and Politics thread.) Regardless, there are some presuppositions that would be worth examining before jumping straight to application. Forcing belief consistency without understanding the premise leads nowhere.

In that vein, I assume we are talking about First Degree murder rather than Manslaughter- because as much as people are arguing murder is worse because dead is dead, the punishment deserving of the crime sees more than dead is dead- Going this route, I suppose falling off a roof and dying is worse than rape because dead is dead. But what matters just as much is the perpetrator.

In my opinion, a rapist ought to get Life just as much as a First Degree murderer.

 

[Nieroshai]

Someone who has been raped can still live a meaningful life, albeit tinged by the experience. Someone who has been killed can't live at all. What's worse: violating someone's human rights for mere moments, or violating someone's primary human right permanently?

 

[renegade7]

Murder, without question. You can recover from rape. You can't recover from being dead.

I don't see how it's more complicated than that.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

Someone who has been raped can still live a meaningful life, albeit tinged by the experience. Someone who has been killed can't live at all. What's worse: violating someone's human rights for mere moments, or violating someone's primary human right permanently?

Pretty sure the impact of rape is slightly longer than 'mere' seconds of the physical act. Regardless of the minimization, is an equivalent prison sentence for a rapist to a first degree murderer acceptable to you?

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

If your the victim then rape is worse. But talking about the crimes then murder is a far serious crime to commit.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

After murder you are dead and have no hope of recovery. After rape you are likely scarred for life but still have hope of recovery and better times.

Ergo, murder is worse.

 

[Ryan Minns]

I consider a brutal beating on average far worse than rape, though rape has the added problem that both can occur at the same time.

So murder gets my vote.

 

[Casual Shinji]

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.

I doubt they get to decide that anymore than someone who's had a traumatic childhood gets to. Some things mark you for life and will negatively influence your day-to-day life and interactions with others for the rest of your life.

It's easy to say someone can just move on with their life, because hey, they're still alive. But would you say the same to someone who'd lost both their arms and legs?

I think the reason people think that rape is so bad is born of sexism, the notion that women that were raped are now "less" off a women or "defiled" is drilled into our heads from a young age causing us to view the act as ridiculously bad (it's still a pretty horrible thing to do) and make the victims think of themselves as lesser people.

Your assumption that rape is automatically tied to women seems rather sexist itself. If that were the case we wouldn't see such a massive outcry whenever there's a report of a child having been raped. You don't see people going 'Meh, it wasn't a woman that got raped, it was just some 5-year old boy -- Who cares.'

The reason rape is considered so horrible is because sex is a primal instinct. It drives our perception, our behaviour and our interaction with other people. If that gets twisted and mangled, the ramifications are generally disastrous.