Poll: rape worse than murder?

[sumanoskae]

I'm going to get crucified for this but it must be said:

Not only is murder far far worse than rape, rape is completely equivelant to torture and can be said to be just a different type of it.

I think the reason people think that rape is so bad is born of sexism, the notion that women that were raped are now "less" off a women or "defiled" is drilled into our heads from a young age causing us to view the act as ridiculously bad (it's still a pretty horrible thing to do) and make the victims think of themselves as lesser people.

You bring up an interesting point. I can't necessarily confirm it is fact, but it is a logical theory, worthy of examination. What I can agree with you on is that torture can be just as bad as rape, if it's performed in a destructive enough fashion.

 

[sumanoskae]

I think the reason people think that rape is so bad is born of sexism, the notion that women that were raped are now "less" off a women or "defiled" is drilled into our heads from a young age causing us to view the act as ridiculously bad (it's still a pretty horrible thing to do) and make the victims think of themselves as lesser people.

Your assumption that rape is automatically tied to women seems rather sexist itself. If that were the case we wouldn't see such a massive outcry whenever there's a report of a child having been raped. You don't see people going 'Meh, it wasn't a woman that got raped, it was just some 5-year old boy -- Who cares.'

The reason rape is considered so horrible is because sex is a primal instinct. It drives our perception, our behaviour and our interaction with other people. If that gets twisted and mangled, the ramifications are generally disastrous.

I think the point was that the cultural reaction to rape was first conceived in the context of sexism.

The argument seems to be:
"The idea that a woman's worth was somehow decreased by the act of rape is the basis for the shame and insecurity the victim is instilled with in the modern day."

I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think the assertion was sexist

 

[sumanoskae]

That may be the case in other countries, but in the United States more men are raped than women.

I would be interested in knowing where you came across that statistic.

 

[Varanfan9]

As an agnostic atheist... murder. I mean, that's it. You're dead. No more life experiences, no more fun, no more love. Your life is over. Rape at least has a chance for the victim to eventually recover, or at least partially do so, and they can still live rich fulfilling lives.
That said, they are both completely terrible crimes and I am appalled at how often rapists can get away with their crimes.

 

[Lightknight]

The killer would be called a murderer for shooting the fuhrer and be executed there's no way to avoid it. Hell even killing Stalin seems justified to me, but it is still murder unless they have a gun pointed at you.

It would be called assassination and/or treason. Treason only in Germany but assassination everywhere.

What's more is if they did it due to knowledge of the holocaust or some sort of time traveler knowledge then even if it were called murder back then we'd know that it was killing in defense of innocent lives.

That an area burns a person for being a witch does not make them guilty of witchcraft.

 

[Czann]

Murder, obviously.

Though murdering rapists should give you a medal.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Depends, you could justify murder in some way. Rape on the other hand...not so much if at all. I don't know why but rape just seems crueler to me, sure they're still alive but it's still a horrible horrible thing to do to a person.

People who say that you can justify murder don't understand what murder is. Murder isn't killing someone, murder is illegally killing someone without justification.

If you kill someone in the heat of passion it's not murder, it's manslaughter. If you kill someone in the defense of yourself or others it's not murder it's self defense. Murder can't be justified because to be murder it has to be unjustifiable, that's what makes it murder.

That would be true if we were talking purely from a legal standpoint. However if you look at the TC's example, killing someone out of revenge for killing a loved one, some people would actually find that justifiable. Is it still murder? Yes but some people can morally justify it.

That is a good example. I don't know if such a murder is justified, but it would be less immoral than rape by far.

 

[Seanfall]

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

It is a traumatic experience, but do you really think it is equivalent to "the mirror shattering"?

I'm not talking about whether or not it's actually terrible, it is. But do you think if given an option between a bullet to your head or a traumatic experience that is rape that you'd be indifferent between the two?

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.

I honestly don't know how to answer that. I've never had something like that happen to me, I have no frame of reference. I will say..that I would rather be alive. Only the living can heal.

 

[ZeroFarks]

There are numerous ways in which murder can be justified, both morally and legally.

Rape? Zero.

Or let's look at it from a gamer perspective: How comfortable are you playing games where you murder people? How comfortable would you be playing a game where you raped people?

Yeah, pretty obvious.

 

[Panthera]

Murder, it's disturbing to say otherwise. When you claim that murder is worse than rape, you're basically telling every rape victim in the world they'd be better off dead.

 

[Creator002]

I don't know. I'm inclined to say rape is worse. My only reason is because you can't relive your murder and, once you're dead, you can't be harmed any further. (By "you" in that sentence, I mean your consciousness or state of being. Obviously your body can still be "harmed" from a point of view, but "you" aren't actually there.)
I'm sure I could be persuaded to believe otherwise though. I see some good points in this thread.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Rape is worse than Murder (to decrease the surplus population!) but the only time for me when death murder is worse is when you burn someone alive. That's unimaginable.

 

[Adam3s]

There are numerous ways in which murder can be justified, both morally and legally.

Rape? Zero.

Legally murder is never justified, killing can be through: war, self-defense, accidental etc...but not murder. I'd also argue that morally it is never justified either, people in this thread have mentioned revenge but that's far from moral, it is the abandonment of morals through anger and a want to harm those that harmed you.

I'd actually say legally and morally rape (by it's full legal definition) has way more gray areas than murder. Some examples:

Sleeping with a 17 year old who you believed to be over 18 - would technically be rape (change ages for were you live) but not the most immoral thing in the world - certainly I would think less of someone who murdered out of revenge.

Sleeping with someone too intoxicated to say "no", whilst the rapist themselves are not of complete sound of mind due to alcohol also - the perpetrator may not have even been aware that the victim was an unwilling participant. Far from the nicest of scenarios and can still cause immense trauma for the victim but certainly more morally grey than murder.

Don't get me misunderstood, at it's worse, rape is a truly horrific crime and is right up there with torture. These rapist are amongst the lowest of the low.

Murder is still worse though as dead is dead. If there is one thing most people in this world want more than anything else, it is to live...taking that away through murder is the worst of crimes, although perhaps torture to the point...I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

 

[Lightknight]

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

It is a traumatic experience, but do you really think it is equivalent to "the mirror shattering"?

I'm not talking about whether or not it's actually terrible, it is. But do you think if given an option between a bullet to your head or a traumatic experience that is rape that you'd be indifferent between the two?

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.

I honestly don't know how to answer that. I've never had something like that happen to me, I have no frame of reference. I will say..that I would rather be alive. Only the living can heal.

Exactly, and that's all there is to it. No matter how bad the experience is, the living can still heal. We do have soldiers that have gone through worse. Worse in that they underwent years of torture that also included rape as part of its repertoire. Soldiers that are just (or were just) glad to survive and make it back home.

For the vast majority of people, alive is better. As I said above, 30% of rape victims express PTSD at all and only 10% have the PTSD persist for years. That 90% of victims who make it past all this darkness and live their lives fully again and the remaining 10% can still have perfectly fulfilling lives that are just sometimes interrupted by the PTSD.

To try, as some people have done, to tell these victims that they'd have been better off murdered is an astounding miscarriage of the facts to demonize something that is already viewed as demonic, if you will. Yes, we all get that rape is a terrible, terrible thing. But it is disingenuous to elevate it above the true "mirror shattering" that is murder. To do otherwise is to diminish the loss incurred by murder and to trivialize the value of human life of those who have survived rape.

Let's instead carry a message that rape is not the end. It is not an automatic death sentence and the people aren't beyond restoration of life. They are not damaged beyond love. It is not their fault. Our social taboo on discussing rape or our insistence on saying that it ruins the person only hurts victims. Society already accepts that rape is a particularly vile crime for a person to commit. But we must weigh how we talk about the victims of it carefully in a way that balances the fact that they will most likely have a full and happy life yet to live with the fact that someone just committed a great evil.

It is a balancing act, yes, but one the victims of this crime deserve from a society that failed to prevent it and is still failing to provide a safe environment to discuss it for them.

 

[Johnny Impact]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Pretty much this. What are you going to do, congratulate the winner? Develop PSAs to spread the word? I can see it now, "Rape: It's slightly less awful than murder! " The what with the what now?

 

[Lightknight]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Pretty much this. What are you going to do, congratulate the winner? Develop PSAs to spread the word? I can see it now, "Rape: It's slightly less awful than murder! " The what with the what now?

I'm not sure any action really nears murder. Slightly less awful than murder would be an understatement for most actions. This implies that if it were just a little worse then people would rather be dead than alive.

That just doesn't match the data. Murder is the end-all crime. It's the top watermark. You could potentially include kidnappers that rob their lives in other ways but it all comes down to a significant theft of life at the top. The only real thing you can do to make murder worse is to combine it with other crimes.

So slightly less awful? No, there is a sizable gap between murder and anything else. But as far as our opinion of the people who commit it? Yeah, evil. But it isn't even necessarily permanent damage. Would you rather get raped or have a limb cut off? That's not necessarily permanent damage vs permanent damage. Believe it or not, a lot of people would prefer to deal with moments of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the former than dealing with a life of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the latter.

 

[pearcinator]

Most people say murder is worse. I am going to say rape is equally as bad.

In many cases, rape leads to murder. Whereas murder is taking a life, rape is taking the dignity from the victim BEFORE taking their life. Many cases of rape (if the victim survives the ordeal) results in years of mental hardship; depression and suicide are common. The victim's life will never be the same. It's basically murder in a different name.

It is also far more difficult to 'get away' with murder because proof of the sin is already there for the most part (dead body). Rapists get away with it far more easily as victim's may not report it (as it is degrading to them) and the evidence of the occurrence comes down to a 'he said; she said' debate which could go either way.

A person accused of murder must defend themselves with evidence (They can't accuse the dead of 'making it up') A person accused of rape can straight away accuse the accuser of fraud. Therefore more murderers are caught and charged than rapists, ergo the rapists are still free to walk among us normal citizens (with the potential to commit further rape offences).

The victims may eventually overcome the experience and continue to live a happy life but I still think rape is equally as bad as murder (and in some cases, worse).

 

[Vlado]

I really hope people who voted for options other than murder do not understand what "murder" means.

 

[Olas]

I'm sorry but what?

Rape is something you can recover from. I'm sure it's traumatizing, perhaps even for years or decades, but most people will be able to move on with life eventually. Murder is the destruction of everything you are and everything you'll ever be. Even if you actually think being a rape victim is worse than death you can still choose to the latter, though I would recommend therapy first.

Ya, both are terrible, but how can we even compare them?

Also, the poll results are giving me the finger.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

Rape is much more harmful to the victim, but its not just harm to the victim that is to be considered. You also have harm to society, which you deal with in the legal trial, and harm to their loved ones, which you deal with in a civil trial. So I guess it matter who we are taking about. Rape is more harmful to the victim, but murder is much more harmful to society and their loved ones.

I say rape is more harmful to the victim because murder cant cause the victim any harm. You cant be harmed by murder because if your are murdered there is no you to be harmed.