Poll: RPG status spells
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They're rarely useful aside from Haste-type ones, but when they're properly implemented they can be a huge asset.
I think status spells for most games suck....
The problem is that for most games they don't have the overall effect or turn use of the spell to make it worth it. Generally they're just too useless in any combat situation and a better route would be to just stack those high dmg attacks.
This can really be seen in the pokemon games and FF games. Does anyone bother wasting a turn to cast shell?
I would admit, though, the higher level spells are alot of fun, like paralyze or sleep.
I like how Fallout 3 had highly affective status Chems that actually helped. 25% dmg increase or %55? reduction is no joke.
The problem is that for most games they don't have the overall effect or turn use of the spell to make it worth it. Generally they're just too useless in any combat situation and a better route would be to just stack those high dmg attacks.
This can really be seen in the pokemon games and FF games. Does anyone bother wasting a turn to cast shell?
I would admit, though, the higher level spells are alot of fun, like paralyze or sleep.
I like how Fallout 3 had highly affective status Chems that actually helped. 25% dmg increase or %55? reduction is no joke.
You only feel this way because most RPG developers are lazy gits who don't bother making status spells at all useful aside from simple buffs. Most RPGs render player-controlled Status spells useless due to low success rates and the higher efficiency of simply "Beating The Other Guy Up Real Hard." Instead of tactical depth you might get fancy-sounding gimmicks like "Limit Breaks" or "timed hits," but there's usually very little thought involved in these RPGs besides hitting the other guy as hard as you can, healing up when you're hurting bad, and replenishing MP so as to reload your metaphorical ammo.ihatefullmetalalchemist said:
I disagree with you, because your suggestion seems to think that these lazy developers are somehow "right" in emphasizing only direct attack as a legitimate option in play.
To illustrate one example of a series of RPGs made by developers who aren't lazy, Status-Effect Spells are vital to survival in Shin Megami Tensei games. Persona included. This is because unlike SMT, most RPGs have pretty shallow and low-effort battle systems. I'm looking at Final Fantasy especially. On the other hand, in many battles status effect spells are the key to beating the enemy as quickly as possible, which means using up as little HP/MP as possible (and in these games, all stats and resources are valued at a premium). This includes boss battles, who generally are not immune to status effects other than instant-death. But even Instant Death spells are immensely useful in this series, especially against powerful regular enemies. SMT is possibly the only RPG series where developers actually give players legitimate options in battle--the only other examples I can think of being other Atlus-developed games. Because if there's no point in using status-spells or instant-death spells, there's no point in having them in the game. While you think this means status-effect spells should be removed from the genre because of this, it's a lot more fun to make them more useful and justify their existence.
If anything, it makes battles much more tactical and involved. I would prefer more developers made useful status spells rather than getting rid of the concept altogether.
(Blizzard's also good with games involving status effects. Either RPGs or Strategy games. There, the ability to poison, paralyze, or debuff enemies--and enemy units--is one no competent player would overlook.)
Actually, yeah, that's pretty much what I mean, too.inu-kun said:
Yes but in games like DDS you need some strategy because it is possible that three normal enemies can kill you in one round even if you have the highest possible level. That happened to me a few times actually. One enemy put all of characters to sleep and the other one killed them in one hit.harhol said:
Don't even get me started on enemies like Demi-Fiend or Meganada.
Ah we always called those 'debuffs' or ailments rather than aiments. I am all for those.harhol said:
i think they should stay. sure its a little annoying when you get stunned on the first turn, but i think it is the funnist thing in the world when you cast sleep and heal up while he is snoozin... and then poison him when he wakes up. good times.
Mm.. the Elementalist with doublecast.. *drool*Graustein said:
Yes. Yes, I do use them now and then, but the games that make them useful are a bit few, unfortunately. Many oldies do, FF (especially Tactics) and Pokémon (yeah, I know) are couple of examples.
Edit: Buffs are an entirely different topic though. They are often very useful and sometimes overpowered. *stares at Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls; haste, temper and sabre*
Status Effects always ALWAYS suffer these following problems, one way or the other:
1. Profoundly piss-weak.
2. Unacceptably overpowered.
3. Take too fucking long to cast/don't last long enough.
4. Require too much effort that is ALWAYS easily spoiled.
5. Bosses are immune to Status Ailments anyway so why bother with them?
1. Profoundly piss-weak.
2. Unacceptably overpowered.
3. Take too fucking long to cast/don't last long enough.
4. Require too much effort that is ALWAYS easily spoiled.
5. Bosses are immune to Status Ailments anyway so why bother with them?
God the doublecasting Elementalist!Higurashi said:
The problem is that the usefulness of status ailments depends very largely on the battle system used. Games that have random battles every two steps have shorter battles, simply because nobody wants to spend more time fighting in one room than they want to spend walking through the rest of the dungeon combined. In those battles, the strategy is usually a swift, all-out offensive to take them down ASAP. Status ailments are truly a waste in those situations.
And then you get games like FF: Tactics, where you can use a status ailment to put one or more of the enemies completely out of commission for the duration of the match (stop will take them out of the battle for 3 turns, by which time he's likely to be all alone), or Pokemon where it's one-on-one, making a single turn spent weakening the foe a viable strategy.
When you're doing an RPG like Golden Sun or FFIV, you want to get rid of the enemy as soon as possible. In EarthBound, you'll often just unleash a round of straight attacks, not even bothering to waste precious PP on casting spells despite Paula's relatively lousy attack.
My favorite thing to do in FF:T was to use Foxbird to lower Brave and turn enemies into chickens.Graustein said:
I don't know wether it counts a an ailment spell but i had a rogue type archer in oblivion that used a poison that had silence, paralysis, fire and health damage. It was totally handy.
Admittedly the paralysis only lasted a couple of seconds but hitting the big guys in the oblivion towers with that first shot from the shadows and watching them fall on their faces was a ton of fun.
Admittedly the paralysis only lasted a couple of seconds but hitting the big guys in the oblivion towers with that first shot from the shadows and watching them fall on their faces was a ton of fun.
The main problem with status ailments in games are that they usually do not work on things that matter. It's easy enough to inflict those pesky sewer rats and goblins with poison, or simply crystalizing them out of existence, but the 3-stories tall mega dragon with 2 gazillion hit points is usually immune to status ailments.
I don't usually play western RPGs, but jRPGs status ailments are definitely balanced around the players being afflicted, not the enemies. The same poison spell that will kill my level 99 warrior in 5 turns doesn't even work on a low level mob in the final dungeon! That's annoying.
At least there are a few games that do not make it entirely useless. Etrian Odyssey and Xenosaga are the two that I recently played, where it is actually quite useful to use status ailments.
I don't usually play western RPGs, but jRPGs status ailments are definitely balanced around the players being afflicted, not the enemies. The same poison spell that will kill my level 99 warrior in 5 turns doesn't even work on a low level mob in the final dungeon! That's annoying.
At least there are a few games that do not make it entirely useless. Etrian Odyssey and Xenosaga are the two that I recently played, where it is actually quite useful to use status ailments.