Poll: RPG's with no level caps?

[FatherSpleen]

A game with no level cap could work if it had some kind of scaling difficulty setting, where enemies get harder to kill as you gain more levels, for example. Maybe some kind of AI Director like in Left 4 Dead to change up the action so it doesn't get stale.

Of course, I haven't played a "real" RPG in years, so I don't know if it'd work in practice or not.

Personally, I think the whole idea of "leveling up" is kind of pointless. I'd prefer one where stats increase real-time/you gain skill points in real-time, without having to wait until you reach a certain amount of EXP so you can then distribute skill points.

 

[Dragon_of_red]

Well, Final Fantasy 10 doesnt really have a level cap, as long as you dont fill up the Sphere grid you could keep leveling for a while.

But level caps keep you sane, theres always those people who must get to the highest level, those people are insane.

 

[SD-Fiend]

if a game has no level caps than you should be able to play the game after the story and still have something to do

 

[Angerwing]

For plain RPG's it doesn't matter because your mainly playing single player.
For MMORPG's you need a level cap so you don't have "Make Love Not Warcraft" problems.

Except GM's wouldn't have an issue with deleting the GOD OF WARCRAFT cause they get bored.

He means so you won't have the one person with no life dominating everyone without being able to be beaten. If GM's deleted characters for being too good... I don't even know what would happen. I don't think any MMO is retarded enough to try it.

 

[e2density]

I assume that by "no lvl cap" you mean the games where you can get to lvl 99 or 999, given enough time

No, I think he means by "no lvl cap" he means there is no level cap...it's self explanataory... As in you can keep leveling up forever.

 

[azukar]

I always thought if I was going to make an RPG, I'd put the level cap at 255, but only expect the player to reach around the 70-90 mark by the end of the storyline. I'd include bonus dungeons and bosses scaled for higher-level parties, but not necessarily expect anyone to reach them.

I guess that's still a level cap of sorts, but definitely one high enough that it would seem endless to all but the most severely obsessed players.

(Naturally, there would be some kind of hidden boss designed to be extremely tough even for a party of level 255 characters, just for the players crazy enough to train that hard).

 

[Craftybonds]

IF there was no level cap, Then you'd continue leveling until the game would prevent you from leveling any farther, Ever the best monsters would be easiest for you.

Not always, there's certain games (Lunia, which is an mmo, but still), where whatever you're killing scales with your level, plus or minus a few levels depending on how hard the area is meant to be. i think lunia still had a level cap, but still.

 

[Olrod]

I really like being able to put the extra effort into grinding for a few hours so I can 1-hit-kill the monsters in the next few areas, it gives me a sense of accomplishment that's my hard work has paid off. If I didn't want to do this, I just wouldn't take the extra time to kill monsters without progressing the game.

I really dislike games where the enemies level as you do, because that defeats the whole purpose of bothering to level up in the first place if they're always going to be of equal power.

I don't mind level caps as long as you're still able to get to a high enough level to blast through even the end-game boss. Or have access to Knights of the Round.

 

[Olrod]

I always thought if I was going to make an RPG, I'd put the level cap at 255, but only expect the player to reach around the 70-90 mark by the end of the storyline. I'd include bonus dungeons and bosses scaled for higher-level parties, but not necessarily expect anyone to reach them.

I guess that's still a level cap of sorts, but definitely one high enough that it would seem endless to all but the most severely obsessed players.

(Naturally, there would be some kind of hidden boss designed to be extremely tough even for a party of level 255 characters, just for the players crazy enough to train that hard).

So you're a fan of the Star Ocean series, then?

 

[vikeif]

For plain RPG's it doesn't matter because your mainly playing single player.
For MMORPG's you need a level cap so you don't have "Make Love Not Warcraft" problems.

Except GM's wouldn't have an issue with deleting the GOD OF WARCRAFT cause they get bored.

He means so you won't have the one person with no life dominating everyone without being able to be beaten. If GM's deleted characters for being too good... I don't even know what would happen. I don't think any MMO is retarded enough to try it.

I know what he meant, captain obvious. But, they do that in some MMOs that don't have the level limit to seriously level the lifeless tard's E-peen.

Secondly, my comment was more geared about the show in reference where it depicted the Blizzard staff and GM's and total pussies.(which a mused me to no end.)But considering the ".killallplayers" command being a GM toy, I doubt I'd ever see a GM with a tiny in game internet cock.

I want waffles...

 

[tologna]

IF there was no level cap, Then you'd continue leveling until the game would prevent you from leveling any farther, Ever the best monsters would be easiest for you.

unless they would adapt and have similar levels than yours

well, yeah, but that usually sucks.

 

[blindthrall]

I think they should be there, but keep them high. 60 in Mass Effect was good. Make it high enough that you have to play it extensively to get those last five or so. It's way too low in Fallout. You should never be able to max out just doing the main quests.

 

[Darkin20]

I think level capping is a nessesary evil at least for now. Hopefully someday, someone will discover a way to level you up but still keep the game difficult for those insanely high levels but still doable for the regular level guys.

 

[SextusMaximus]

With it, I guess - but it just adds up very limited amounts of points to spend on 'skills'

 

[Alex_P]

For reference I'm going by the standard of no level cap being 99/100, 255, 999 or whatever as the max limit depending on the specific game or console. Just saying NOOOOOOOOOO to going past say 20 is a dick move to anyone who actually enjoys levelling.

Who cares what kind of number you slap onto it? A game mechanic that has numbers that go up to 10,000 isn't necessarily any different from one where everything is simple single-digit math.

-- Alex

 

[Alex_P]

Level scaling, this is one of the worst things an RPG can do.

Agreed. Not only does it turn the entire "level" system into a pointless exercise in self-deception (hey, some numbers went up! and the numbers coming out of the enemies went up to match! this is progress, I'm sure of it!), but it also tends to create situations where characters can easily get worse rather than better (stop pumping points into your Sword skill after each level-up and your character will go from being an excellent swordsman to a crappy one as all the enemies get more and more pumped-up over time).

-- Alex

 

[Olrod]

This was most noticeable on Final Fantasy 8, you actually had an advantage by never fighting battles and never levelling up. By building up Diablos near the start of the game you could get the Zero Encounter ability, so Boss monsters were the only enemies you ever fought, all the way through the game.

As they were scaled to your level, you can fight the end-game boss when it was level 10, yet you could still Junction the most powerful magics as you could draw them from points on the map no matter how high or low your level was, and add them to your stats and be over twice as powerful as any Boss you'd ever face.

For example, assume at level 10 all your stats were 25, yet you can Juntion 100-stat point magics to make all your stats 125, and Boss monsters would still have their own stats set at 25 because they were scaled to your level, not your ability.

Naturally, the lower your level, the bigger the impact the Juntioned magics were (simply because of the percentage value differences).

It would be the same with any other RPG system where enemies are scaled to your level number, regardless of how powerful the equipment was that you used.

This levelling system is deeply flawed as it actively discourages the player from fighting battles, which is one of the mains parts of an RPG game.

 

[Jenova65]

I really don't like level capping at all, so what if people who grind can kill monsters stupidly easy? If they have put the hours to train they should be able to kick the game's ass. The thing is level capping takes away a choice, where there is no cap you can choose to fly by the seat of your pants or you can be all boy scout 'be prepared', level capping says do it our way or don't do it at all.
The level cap for ME was OK at 60, but a backwards step in ME2, level 30? What the hell is that, BioWare? It is annoying because if you starting a +game there is nothing new to learn since level 30 can be achieved on the first play through. And I hate seeing skills I know I can't ever get.....

 

[e2density]

I assume that by "no lvl cap" you mean the games where you can get to lvl 99 or 999, given enough time

No, I think he means by "no lvl cap" he means there is no level cap...it's self explanatory... As in you can keep leveling up forever.

Let me quote the response of the guy in question (OP) for this one:

I assume that by "no lvl cap" you mean the games where you can get to lvl 99 or 999, given enough time. Like in the olden days.

If Im right, than yeah, I prefer those kind of games.

that's right ! you know what i mean!

Morale of the story: Read before you post, it was posted 2 hours before your post, its on first page, thers no excuses for such amount of laziness.

EDIT: Sorry if it came out harsh or offensive, but that just ticked me off.

There is also no excuse for using 3 commas in a single sentence without starting a new one, leaving an awkward phrase in your post. There is also no excuse for spelling "theres" without and "e". There is also no excuse for not revising your posts before you post them, at the expense of quality and value.

Before you start correcting other people, make sure you know how to do it right. Congratulations on making yourself look like a retard. Luckily there are enough of you people out there to the point where no one cares.

 

[Alex_P]

It matters, a lot. How many RPGs do you play without a levelling cap, compared to ones with a cap?

Non-sequitur. I said there was no automatic functional difference between a game that scales things from 1 to 10 and a game that scales things from 1 to 100,000, so your obsession with bigger numbers is misguided. Here's a simple example: Diablo 2 had a hundred character levels. Final Fantasy X had some number much higher than 20, I'm sure -- and yet both those games ended up with roughly the same number of selectable character powers as Dragon Age did, and they're not notably longer than Dragon Age. So, besides the psychological validation of seeing a bigger number, what's the difference? "This one goes up to 11"?

But, hey, I think about half of the games I've played have included some form of "level cap" mechanic. Mass Effect 2 and Guild Wars, two of the RPG-style video games I consider to be strongest game-mechanically -- that is, on the level of moment-to-moment gameplay rather than just atmosphere or storyline -- pretty much neutered "levels" altogether. You don't get any automatic stat increases (like hit points) for leveling up in ME2, and GW really just uses "levels" to give you an extended tutorial.

Hell, in the pen-and-paper world, tons and tons of games just plain don't have levels. And, generally, they've better off for it. I've been quite happy with certain games that eschew conventional character-advancement mechanics altogether.

...

The level cap for ME was OK at 60, but a backwards step in ME2, level 30? What the hell is that, BioWare? It is annoying because if you starting a +game there is nothing new to learn since level 30 can be achieved on the first play through. And I hate seeing skills I know I can't ever get.....

I figure not being able to take every single power for a class makes games better by introducing, well, choices. You can always spend a bit of Eezo to retrain and swap in a new skill you want to try out, anyway.

-- Alex