Poll: Scottish independence - yay or nay?
- Thread starter Mandalore_15
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Well this is basically what happens: when it's convenient to them, the Scottish like to fall under the banner of the United Kingdom, usually in terms of economy etc. But culturally, they Scottish hate the English, Welsh and Irish, and are oh so eager to constantly shout about the fact that they're 100% Scottish born and bred until your ears bleed. So basically, I say let them have their independence, let their economy collapse (because no amount of whiskey and spirit export can singly sustain a country), and then assimilate them back a little more humble.
We Irish know what it's like having independence, and my opinion on that matter is:
Take us back England. No one has a fucking clue what to do here.
Take us back England. No one has a fucking clue what to do here.
Yes, assuming it sets itself up with appropriate infrastructure, both governmental and otherwise.
Oh yeah. Even now, I'm astounded at the things my mom will gain a sudden interest in just because one person who is 25% Korean is involved... (I am not joking. She admitted this.)Mandalore_15 said:
(I know which country you really mean, but still...)
Quebec in Canada springs to mind. The difference being that the separatist movement has COLLAPSED in the recent years.
SNP have made it pretty clear in the last few years that a sudden and immediate independence isn't what they want. They want independent, but it to be achieved slowly over time so that when it comes, Scotland will be able to be self-sufficient (which it currently financially isn't).
Personally I'm more for further autonomy rather than independence; breaking apart "healthy" a country doesn't sound like a good idea, especially when there are a lot of weird people who want to readjust the border (anyone heard of the Scottish Jacobite Party? They want Berwick and Cumbria; I mean, come on, Cumbria hasn't been Scottish-ruled for well over 1,000 years and even then it wasn't by Scotland itself.) Besides, wasn't the SNP's success partly due to the unpopularity of Labour, Liberals and Conservatives? I mean;
Labour messed up the country according to those on the Right; that and a lot of people didn't liked Gordon Brown and his cabinet. I definitely don't think Ed should have taken the helm; I can't take him seriously since the Times started depicting him as Wallace since he became leader of the Labour Party. I guess he's what the trade unionists wanted though.
Liberal Democrats are seen as sell-outs for forming a coalition with the Conservatives and then getting very little their own way.
and Conservatives are seen as being all elitist and such by the Left.
SNP is kinda a protest vote from where I see it; Salmond really needs to prove he's the man for the job and SNP is the party for parliament now he has the chance to fully do so; I can't say I was particularly unhappy about anything they did in the last parliament, so we'll have to see I guess.
Personally I'm more for further autonomy rather than independence; breaking apart "healthy" a country doesn't sound like a good idea, especially when there are a lot of weird people who want to readjust the border (anyone heard of the Scottish Jacobite Party? They want Berwick and Cumbria; I mean, come on, Cumbria hasn't been Scottish-ruled for well over 1,000 years and even then it wasn't by Scotland itself.) Besides, wasn't the SNP's success partly due to the unpopularity of Labour, Liberals and Conservatives? I mean;
Labour messed up the country according to those on the Right; that and a lot of people didn't liked Gordon Brown and his cabinet. I definitely don't think Ed should have taken the helm; I can't take him seriously since the Times started depicting him as Wallace since he became leader of the Labour Party. I guess he's what the trade unionists wanted though.
Liberal Democrats are seen as sell-outs for forming a coalition with the Conservatives and then getting very little their own way.
and Conservatives are seen as being all elitist and such by the Left.
SNP is kinda a protest vote from where I see it; Salmond really needs to prove he's the man for the job and SNP is the party for parliament now he has the chance to fully do so; I can't say I was particularly unhappy about anything they did in the last parliament, so we'll have to see I guess.
Canid117 said:
OK guys, you need to not jump to conclusions. I almost wish I hadn't written that now. There are plenty of countries that fit that bill. Try:Android2137 said:
Russia
Switzerland
Korea (as Android2137 mentioned)
The Czech Republic
Belgium, although it is split into two sides (the French side and Flanders)
The economies for both the rest of the UK and Scotland would be devasted. if it was a more gradual process to help both sides get economic independence from eachother then i have no problem with the scottish leaving if they so wish, but right now it would be a horrible idea
wasn't there some film recently, where England put a wall up around Scotland and everyone inside turned into violent punk cannibals?
Or something like that.
I remember the irony of when Gordon brown got rightly elected as PM, and he was at risk of being forced to sit out of British parliament due to the fact he was Scottish.
You're welcome to you're freedom, I wont hold issue with it. it wont get you far in this day and age, mind.
Or something like that.
I remember the irony of when Gordon brown got rightly elected as PM, and he was at risk of being forced to sit out of British parliament due to the fact he was Scottish.
You're welcome to you're freedom, I wont hold issue with it. it wont get you far in this day and age, mind.
I remember seeing a film a couple of years ago, with Malcolm McDowell - kinda like a zombie, mad max thing where I think Scotland was quaranteened after a virus outbreak, it was terrible. Doomsday is the film I'm thinking about, other than that I've no idea.Me55enger said:
More devolution before independence. I honestly don' know whether or not we could survive on our own right at this moment, as Westminster still controls a significant role in Scottish policies.
In an ideal world where you don't have to worry about money and stability, I'd love to be independent. But The world isn't and we can't, IMO.
It'll be interesting to see how the next general election turns out though, that could have a big impact on the argument, seeing as Scotland is pretty much responsible for all Labour and Lib Dem MPs in Westminster.
TL;DR, it's a pipe dream for now, I'm afraid.
In an ideal world where you don't have to worry about money and stability, I'd love to be independent. But The world isn't and we can't, IMO.
It'll be interesting to see how the next general election turns out though, that could have a big impact on the argument, seeing as Scotland is pretty much responsible for all Labour and Lib Dem MPs in Westminster.
TL;DR, it's a pipe dream for now, I'm afraid.
If they can manage to stay alive with their own economy, why not?
Otherwise it would be just stupid.
Otherwise it would be just stupid.
Literally all of the UK's economy depends on London and frankly if London became a separate state everywhere else would be reasonably fucked regardless and the same goes for anywhere that separates from it. Scotland should remain part of the UK because it'd be a world of pain to separate and Scotland is very much dependent on a lot of English money for all sorts. Scotland has little to gain from separating except for the concept of independence which is ultimately worthless. The idea that Scotland suffers at all being part of the UK is nonsense. Being half Scottish and half English I have zero desire for their separation because frankly, we're better together.
I agree. I'm all for Scottish independence (as an Englander) so that my country won't have to keep throwing all its public services and tax money up Scotland's way. Without the continual CPR of the London economy, Scotland and Wales would go down the tubes. Sadly, neither country produces much that's desirable, and the things they historically produced (especially metals) can be produced far, far more cheaply by other nations. Without London's tertiary sector industry continuously siphoning its taxes off to other parts of the UK, England would be the only remaining G20 UK nation (okay, so that's a bit hyperbolic). Economically, this is as stupid an idea as saying that my house should declare independence from the UK. Unless the SNP is expecting England to continue to fund Scotland, despite it no longer be affiliated, then I really don't know what their endgame is.Mandalore_15 said:
However, if Scotland is aware of these facts and still wants independence for political reasons then that's entirely its business. It'll be single-handedly destroying a symbol of unification against fascism, the ability of a small united land to conquer more of the globe than any other nation in history and the ability of a community to come together despite its long-standing animosities, but the choice is ultimately its own. We have no right to tell the Scottish people that they mayn't do this, but it'd be a damn foolish thing to do.
Precisely. The problem is that they can't.Exterminas said:
Know why the Scots pay nothing for their university and Englanders pay £9k per year? English handouts. This is just one of the many, many ways that England has been keeping Scotland and Wales afloat for the past few decades.
well i don't know much about the Scottish economy or infrastructure but maybe if Scotland can become independent perhaps Australia can follow there lead and do the same. I don't mean to offend any britts here but really, Britain doesn't seem do fuck all to help Australia anymore. and vice versa.