Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk

[Udyrfrykte]

People growing up today are so sissified (I'm talking about the people in this thread that support the brat).
Do you really think in any way the kid took any real, lasting damage from it? If anything he was humbled a bit. Good for us, the rest of society.

You act like shitkids are something of a national treasure.

 

[Wuggy]

Yes, the guard was in the right to do that. Although I say that with a bias: I. hate. kids.

 

[Supertegwyn]

That kid got what he deserved. You should respect authoritarian figures, no matter your age.

Does anyone here speak Swedish? I would quite like to know what the people were saying.

Here, someone posted this earlier in the thread, I assume it's accurate as a few have confirmed it. (I apologize for repeating information, just trying to help out.)

What had happened was that the kid was riding between the tram-cars which is both foolish AND dangerous. Really dangerous.

What he's saying to the guards are:
"let go of me you fucking whore"
"let go"
*groan of, probably, pain*
"let go of me you fucking whore, LET GO OFF ME!!!"
"I swear to god I'm gonna fucking murder you, you fucking whore"
*more groaning*
"fucking whore"
"you shall fucking let me go" (he's trying to give the guard an order)
"let me go" (the guard tells him no)
"you are breaking my fucking arm"
*at this point he starts kicking the guard*
"you fucking whore" (at this point, the guard says "STOP KICKING" and wrestle him to the ground)
at the ground, more groaning of pain
"enough! Ah my leg!"
"ah he [the guard] fucking hit me"
"let me go"
(the guard explains to a bypasser that the kid kicked him at about 02:30)
"well he kicked me IN THE FOOT! FUCKING WHORE!!!"
"Get off!"
"I'm not kicking! Let me go!"
(at about 03:05 he says something I can't hear exactly but I do think he says something like "back off, you oughta watch your fucking back")
at 04:20 when the other guards arrive the guards tells him that he's under arrest under PL13 (Police Law §13 which is disturbing the peace)
"what are you doing?"
"what the fuck are you laughing about?" (directed to somebody outside the picture)

the kids friends start off by telling the guards about his age and that he won't be prosecuted, they then go back and forth between insults ("fucking cunts", "assholes" and such) and claiming "he didn't do anything"

Ah thank you, that clarified matters. I would have checked but 9 pages is a bit much for me

 

[cahtush]

Begs the question, why did they grab the kid in the first place, vandalism, shoplifting abusive behaviour?

Im probably ninjad on this, but the kid tried to ride between the train wagons in the subway if im not mistaken

 

[sinterklaas]

After seeing the transcript, that little fucker got what he deserved.

I feel bad for the guard having his job suspended...

 

[SillyBear]

Taser and lock them up. Im all for hard punishment. Problem is today people treat kids like kids even thought they rob, kill and rape. In the UK you can be stabbed by a dumb 12 year old. Today some drug addict committed his 275 crime? Why arnt people put away after 5 crimes? This country is screwed.

Either way, he needed to be taught a lesson. Scared out of further crime. Also the parents shouldn't have a 12 year old running riot.

Lock up this child for slightly pushing a security guard with his foot?

What?

Go to fucking Saudi Arabia if you want to live in a society with rules like that.

 

[Thyunda]

In my opinion, the guard did the right thing. The two of them were easily outnumbered, and I think at the start of the video, the second guard, the one without the kid, was being squared up to by a taller kid. They just took it, and held on to their charge without instigating any aggression. They weren't excessively violent, they didn't verbally abuse the teenagers, and the first guard was barely putting any pressure on the lad until he started kicking. Regardless of the guard's age and size, and the kid's lack of it, scraping your trainer against somebody's leg is either going to be really irritating, or somewhat painful. I don't see why the guard should have had to put up with this. He pulled the ASP because he was making himself vulnerable by kneeling. He needed a deterrent. And I must say, he looked a badass flicking that thing out and shouting, forcing them all to scatter.


Now. You people that insist 'he's twelve, this is brutality', clearly lack siblings or any kind of experience with children. You're ignorant and should stop demonstrating it. During the riots in London, a reporter was threatened by a twelve year old, who told him to take his camera elsewhere or he'd receive puncture wounds. Sorry, let me rephrase that. That he'd better fuck off, or he'll get stabbed up, yeah? And with the kid's hundred or so friends wrecking the city behind him, he was serious.
When my brother was young, he's fourteen now, when he was younger, he put me in hospital a ridiculous amount of times. I've had my head glued back together more times than I can count...and there's probably a connection. All my scars are because of him, and I'm five years his senior. Oh, and did I mention he blinded me in one eye? Only reason my sight came back is because I'm interestingly fortunate.

Children are not fragile little petals that need to be protected. You tell your kids that, and pretty soon they'll be hauled home in a police car, and you'll be crying to the newspapers about police brutality. It's pathetic. Learn to discipline kids, and this shit won't happen. My father never really got on with the police. Complains about their brutality a lot. Advice he gave to me? You're Irish, son, so don't fight the police, because they will fuck you up.

Admittedly I think he was trying to tell me they were racist, but the principle is the same. Police have batons and training. I have two years of tae kwon do, and I don't carry a baton. And they travel in pairs and can summon reinforcements in an instant. I don't like my odds.

Security guards have ASPs and they're a damn sight bigger than you. Stop fucking around with them, and stop crying because they've embarrassed you in front of everyone. And, in fairness, these kids are gonna be laughing about this in their classroom while they do the same shit to the teachers.

 

[Thyunda]

Taser and lock them up. Im all for hard punishment. Problem is today people treat kids like kids even thought they rob, kill and rape. In the UK you can be stabbed by a dumb 12 year old. Today some drug addict committed his 275 crime? Why arnt people put away after 5 crimes? This country is screwed.

Either way, he needed to be taught a lesson. Scared out of further crime. Also the parents shouldn't have a 12 year old running riot.

Lock up this child for slightly pushing a security guard with his foot?

What?

Go to fucking Saudi Arabia if you want to live in a society with rules like that.

Well, the crime rate is pretty low in Arabic countries for that very reason, so they must be doing something right.

 

[SillyBear]

Taser and lock them up. Im all for hard punishment. Problem is today people treat kids like kids even thought they rob, kill and rape. In the UK you can be stabbed by a dumb 12 year old. Today some drug addict committed his 275 crime? Why arnt people put away after 5 crimes? This country is screwed.

Either way, he needed to be taught a lesson. Scared out of further crime. Also the parents shouldn't have a 12 year old running riot.

Lock up this child for slightly pushing a security guard with his foot?

What?

Go to fucking Saudi Arabia if you want to live in a society with rules like that.

Well, the crime rate is pretty low in Arabic countries for that very reason, so they must be doing something right.

/facepalm.

You......honestly think.....that?

My goodness.

 

[junkmanuk]

To anyone who thinks that 12 year olds are immune from discipline - FUCK YOU.

You people with this stupid mentality are responsible for the number of kids round my area roaming the streets, smashing shit up and, if called out on it - threatening adults with weapons. I feel angry when I see kids who consider it appropriate to cuss out an adult - whatever the situation.

That guard didn't do anything which wasn't appropriate for the situation. he restrained the kid in the most appropriate way. If that's now being regarded as wrong then we might as well start rewarding kids with lollipops when they shoplift, trash things and steal your grandma's handbag.

I have a son, and he's 7 approaching the age where he's starting to believe he can do whatever he wants. It's very very hard but I HAVE to teach him respect. If he doesn't learn that then trying to reach him when he's a teen will be impossible.

Don't you FUCKING DARE come back to be with any comment on 'oh you're a bad parent because...' bullshit. My kids love me - we spend more time together than ANY of their friends, I don't spend afternoons in the pub with the kids running around the carpark, I KNOW that my kids will grow up stable because of the sense of duty and responsibility that their mother and I have taught them.

 

[Zeema]

Nah the kid was being a dick and then got screwed by the Officer. [sounds like something from Bulletstorm]

I wish the officer pulled his baton out and smacked him over the head with it. that would have taught him

 

[Fishyash]

I was about to say that what the guard did was understandable, although I don't think that amount of force was necessary, and that he was probably lucky that he got off fairly lightly. Acting like that to someone a bit more unscrupulous would have hurt him a lot more. But... he wouldn't do that to such a person would he? Nope, he'd rather do it to a security guard 'knowing fully' that he was obligated to not respond violently.

After reading the transcript, assuming it's true, honestly I think the guard was doing him a favour... hell, the tram car could have taught him a harsher lesson than the guard did...

 

[Thyunda]

Taser and lock them up. Im all for hard punishment. Problem is today people treat kids like kids even thought they rob, kill and rape. In the UK you can be stabbed by a dumb 12 year old. Today some drug addict committed his 275 crime? Why arnt people put away after 5 crimes? This country is screwed.

Either way, he needed to be taught a lesson. Scared out of further crime. Also the parents shouldn't have a 12 year old running riot.

Lock up this child for slightly pushing a security guard with his foot?

What?

Go to fucking Saudi Arabia if you want to live in a society with rules like that.

Well, the crime rate is pretty low in Arabic countries for that very reason, so they must be doing something right.

/facepalm.

You......honestly think.....that?

My goodness.

Oh, shit, I'm sorry, I forgot that you're clearly an expert on international crime rates.

Although the crime rate is low, and is not usually a problem for travellers in Saudi Arabia
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/saudi-arabia

Also, this website has a total crimes per country chart. Let's see. The top 2 are the United States and United Kingdom, respectively, with Saudi Arabia dropping in at #48

US: 11,877,218
UK: 6,523,706
Saudi Arabia: 84,599

/even bigger facepalm.

I wasn't talking about crime rates. You're the one who even brought it up. I was referencing the type of culture that exists there. I would rather live in a country with a high crime rate than a country where rape victims are stoned to death and it is illegal to be in love with someone of your own gender.

Do you really want me to continue? You made a stupid, ignorant comment, and now I'm going to force you to eat it.

??

Jesus. Why are you such a dick?

No, we WERE talking about crime. We were talking about locking a kid up for kicking a guard. And you know what? As a straight man, I would probably be safer living in Saudi Arabia than I would here in the United Kingdom, because at least in the Middle East, people understand there are consequences for their actions. Evidently I'm unique among the English-speaking West, because everybody else loudly declares "THEY RESTRICT OUR FREEDOMS! THEY MUST BE EVIL!"

Say what you want, but this pathetic shit would never have happened on that side of the world. But, for some reason, our own countries are unable to accept that sometimes the criminal does in fact deserve to be punished, and the best way of preventing crime is making the repercussions so serious that nobody does it.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Go to fucking Saudi Arabia if you want to live in a society with rules like that.

Having been, the children are still a handful.

The beheading of drug-dealers goes a long way to cut down on criminal costs though.

And if a guard points a gun at you, you cut the shit-talking immediately.

But most of the time, it's quite a nice place as long as you treat people with respect.

I would rather live in a country with a high crime rate than a country where rape victims are stoned to death and it is illegal to be in love with someone of your own gender.

Irrelevant. And same gender "love" was illegal in all developed countries not so long ago. As was "dissuasion" of abuse victims.

And, as far as I can remember, the rape victims have a different set of rights, and same sex love is very common. It's a different culture.

 

[b3nn3tt]

Well, why hadn't the guards taken the kid somewhere private, like a security room or something? I'd have thought that that would have been standard procedure, and would probably have meant something like this didn't happen.

That being said, I don't think you can call what the kid was doing 'kicking' because it really wasn't, and I'm pretty sre it wouldn't have hurt that much. Secondly, to me it didn't look like the guard hit the kid with the baton, but just hit the ground near him. Although, given the reaction of the others kids, I'd have thought that just getting the baton out in the first place would have been enough of a deterrant to make the kid stay still.

So I suppose I don't agree with what the guard did, because there were other ways that he could have handled the situation that wouldn't have involved throwing the kid to the ground.

 

[SillyBear]

No, we WERE talking about crime. We were talking about locking a kid up for kicking a guard. And you know what? As a straight man, I would probably be safer living in Saudi Arabia than I would here in the United Kingdom

Bullshit. I've been to Saudi Arabia. You're talking out of your arse. You go off the beatin' track there and you'd be worms meat. Also, the children I encountered are just as worse, if not more so, than the children that are in Manchester - where I live.

Root of all evil agrees too:

Having been, the children are still a handful.

---

because at least in the Middle East, people understand there are consequences for their actions.

What? You have quite a hard on for the Middle East, don't you? People in the Middle East don't understand consequences any better or any worse than people in general do here in the UK. People are people. Some are baddins, some are alright.

Let me just say, there are quite a few groups of people in the Middle East that make their career out of capturing innocent people, beheading them and facing no legal trouble. There are slums like you have never seen before. There are wars. There is death around every corner once you leave the tourist areas. If you are caught with a smidgen of drugs on you, you will be beheaded in public. If you are involved in a crime - or even if you are not involved in a crime, you will have no fair trial. You will be straight to prison's with no human rights or - in many cases, dead by the next sun set.

It's hardly a picture of respect and serenity. It's not this respectful paradise where everyone gets along and everyone understand consequences.

The reason why it may seem like that to the ill informed is because any dissent is automatically silenced. Trust me, their culture is miles worse off than ours. They just aren't allowed to complain about it.

Evidently I'm unique among the English-speaking West, because everybody else loudly declares "THEY RESTRICT OUR FREEDOMS! THEY MUST BE EVIL!"

Don't worry, I really doubt you're unique. At all. You sound like a bunch of 40 year old laborers and lorry drivers bitching about England in a pub at 5pm.

Say what you want, but this pathetic shit would never have happened on that side of the world.

You think security guards don't face troubles with disrespectful local youth in the Middle East? Oh, my good God man. My father worked as a Commonwealth police liaison officer in several parts of Africa and the Middle East and he would much rather be on the beat in Manchester than anywhere over there.

Sure the streets are quieter in places like Riyadh than they are in Manchester. That's just because all the gays, artists, lesbians, poor, down trodden, disfranchised, homeless, victims and political activists have been either locked away, swept away or eliminated completely.

But, for some reason, our own countries are unable to accept that sometimes the criminal does in fact deserve to be punished, and the best way of preventing crime is making the repercussions so serious that nobody does it.

You'd have a point if serious repercussions acted as a deterrent. They don't. The death penalty doesn't work as a means of reducing crime. It's been that well documented I certainly don't need a source.

You're viewing this so shallowly it's amusing. The difference in crime and public perception of crime in the West and the Middle East is incredibly complex and it is mostly due to the last thousand years of history and human behaviour. It's not as simple as "they have these laws and we have different laws". Their whole culture is alien to ours, it's daft to even pretend that something as simple as matching their legal system would improve anything.

I do not give a shit about your ridiculous, aggressive and authoritative rhetoric.

--

But most of the time, it's quite a nice place as long as you treat people with respect.

Yep, I got by relatively unscathed. Give respect, get respect is an almost universal tip for dealing with different cultures. I agree with all you said, I just disagree with this clown.

 

[LordFisheh]

Why do people keep saying 'he's 12' as if it means anything?

There are murderers younger than him. There are pampered and sheltered people who rarely expend any effort older than him. Somebody being 12 doesn't mean they necessarily need special treatment. If they're going to try and fight a security guard, they're putting themselves in an adult situation and should be treated as such.

Otherwise, they're trying to have their cake and eat it; be treated as a wholesome scamp while behaving in the opposite way.

 

[Thyunda]

snip

And there are groups in this country that make a living by kidnapping and enslaving people that can't fight back. People who legally don't exist. You can't compare a war to crime, that's just silly, but the conversation here was about whether or not it was reasonable to react harshly to crime. Saudi Arabia deals with crime pretty-fucking-well. As for Manchester, with the exception of Moss Side, it doesn't seem so bad...and my friend in the Manchester Metropolitan doesn't complain about it much. Manchester is just not that bad a place. At least the police force there are competent.
I come from Stoke-on-Trent, and I grew up getting beaten up, set on fire and very nearly stabbed. If I didn't get so good at talking, I'd probably be dead by now, so forgive me if I'm a little bitter towards the pitiful justice system in this country. I left that city because I was not safe. My friends have fallen to excessive marijuana and alcohol, and their idea of a laugh is my idea of violent crime, so I won't be involved. I come a hundred miles away and end up trying to prevent Irish travellers taking European transients their prisoner. I tried to get the police to help me track down a missing one, and all I got was "The family is too big, I can't help."
I only stated that the family existed because I was trying to highlight how vulnerable our missing man actually was.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Root of all evil agrees too:

I do what now?

Having been, the children are still a handful.

They are still far better behaved than any I've had the mispleasure of teaching in England, or seen on the streets of America/Australia.

You're also really over-egging how stringent the Saudi's are. That's the official policies. Almost no-one keeps to the official policies unless they're proselytising. Then you will get shit-kicked.

Let me just say, there are quite a few groups of people in the Middle East that make their career out of capturing innocent people, beheading them and facing no legal trouble. There are slums like you have never seen before. There are wars. There is death around every corner once you leave the tourist areas. If you are caught with a smidgen of drugs on you, you will be beheaded in public. If you are involved in a crime - or even if you are not involved in a crime, you will have no fair trial. You will be straight to prison's with no human rights or - in many cases, dead by the next sun set.

And in America you get forced to work for the Government, water-boarded and stripped of your religious needs. - See, I can over-exaggerate as well.

Trust me, their culture is miles worse off than ours. They just aren't allowed to complain about it.

Trust me, it isn't. It's just different. We both have kids that are a pain in the ass though. My mother and father have been living out there perfectly peacefully for years.

But most of the time, it's quite a nice place as long as you treat people with respect.

Yep, I got by relatively unscathed. Give respect, get respect is an almost universal tip for dealing with different cultures. [/quote]

And not shit-talking security guards is a good rule for anywhere. They have long tough days, a lot of martial arts training, and usually have been wound up to breaking point hours ago.

Agreed, he should have moved out of public range - but - given the crowds, that would have put them at risk.