For God's sake, no !Gorilla Gunk said:
After a while the list of topics you could talk about was so long that finding correct question was real pain in the ass. Skyrim's solution is way much better.
Poll: Should The Elder Scrolls go back to using a text-based dialogue system like Morrowind's?
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After a while the list of topics you could talk about was so long that finding correct question was real pain in the ass. Skyrim's solution is way much better.
Well, that moral high ground soon fell quickly - you just made a 'hilariously stupid generalization' about PC gamers!Tim Mazzola said:
Yes, a thousand times yes! Perhaps not necessarily Morrowind's exact dialogue system, but they should definitely go back to text-dialogue. I don't understand the need to force voice-acted dialogue into every single RPG these days. Voice acting requires more time, more money, less actual writing, and has a fair chance of failing (i.e. bad voice-acting). Text dialogue has NONE of those disadvantages, involves more interesting and intricate writing, and helps provide a richer background to the world. Text-dialogue is just one of the many reasons why I prefer Morrowind over Oblivion, and Final Fantasy IX over Final Fantasy X. I really just don't see what amazing benefits completely voice-acted RPGs bring to the table.
And speaking as a quest modder, I would much rather have Morrowind's dialogue system over both Oblivion and Skyrim's systems. It's just a lot easier to write detailed quests with Morrowind's dialogue system than it is with the newer Elder Scrolls games.
And speaking as a quest modder, I would much rather have Morrowind's dialogue system over both Oblivion and Skyrim's systems. It's just a lot easier to write detailed quests with Morrowind's dialogue system than it is with the newer Elder Scrolls games.
Honestly, I don't think Bethesda's writing can stand up to the number of options that presents. Obsidian could go text based - sure, but Bethesda are really find the way they are.
Well, I say fine I really mean amusingly bad.
Well, I say fine I really mean amusingly bad.
I want that technology they use in that Japanese bot singer.Fappy said:
So you have voice actors say all the sounds and then you can use voices just like text
. Just write and go.I mean...I guess it would probably suck since inflection might be lost. But its a young technology.
Shouldn't feed obvious trolls :/.Blargh McBlargh said:
It's so painfully obvious the OP is trying to get a rise from people.
Have to disagree with you - I hated RPGs that didn't have voice acting, and a text-based system is just representative of a long-gone age. We have the money and the technology. Why would we sacrifice a full audio/visual combination for immersion just for the hell of it? It's not about having clever writing - you can do that in in-game journals. It's about the proper application of the writing, and if the next Elder Scrolls were to be released without voice-acted characters, I wouldn't be buying it. It sounds petty, but why would I be playing a next-gen game on a next-gen console if it doesn't even bother to put voices in? It's just lazy.RealDarkelfguy said:
I know i read somewhere about a group developing an AI-type software to basically be a "GM" like in a tabletop RPG in video games. I feel like that would be awesome. I honestly would rather have something that would respond somewhat accurately to ANY GOD DAMN THING I WANT TO WRITE than something fully voice acted. basically i want my video game RPGs to be story oriented tabletop RPGs that i can play by myself.
You know why? Because if we dont have an HD t.v its fucking hard to read text on the screen, it hurts your eyes.HerbertTheHamster said:
Now now, That could have been used with the intent of Irony and his original point still stands; that was a gross generalization.BathorysGraveland said:
OT: I find the use of voice acting (When done correctly) to be far more engaging that just reading huge chunks of text. Now with that said, those huge chunks of text would not inhibit me in anyway from playing a game that I genuinely enjoy. Also think realistically here, No one in the world would go on for over six thoroughly composed sentences of information for a complete stranger. Voice acting tries to emulate actual human interaction, those chunks of text always have me thinking "Does he talk like this to everyone? Dear god, what would have happened if I had asked him how his day went!"
I don't see voice acting as being some scourge on the RPG genre, but I'm certain some fans of old school RPG's out there will, and some of them, in their nostalgia fueled fury, will probably at some point try and tear me a new one and call me 'stupid' and complain about how 'streamlining is a blight on the world'. I won't care enough to respond so there's a heads up.
As much as I like the Voice acting and animations, and the sense of character and immersion they add to the game, I dislike the limitations on the quests. From Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim you can see a distinct decrease in the amount of endings, interpretations, and ways of going about most of the quests, to the point where some are ones that you don't like, but have no alternative with
I'm not sure what the solution is. Unlike say, Mass Effect, where the story is more linearised and the options can be controlled better, it isn't enough to give the illusion of choice, especially given the scope of the game, while at the same time, the improvement made by voice acting is undeniable. By the illusion of choice, in a game like Mass Effect, the player is given many choices, but they're of a trivial or non-flowing nature, and don't greatly effect the course of the game. Hence, while a few details need to be changed, it doesn't necessarily effect the outcome, a character lives, or a character dies, that's it for the most part,.
I'd suggest that maybe TES doesn't need to do it, but I'd like an old school RPG of the Morrowind vein with a bigger focus on openness of interpretations. In fact, making something even more open than Morrowind would be even better.
(For instance, I wanted to turn in the thieves guild, set the legion on the shipwreckers, and force the Blades to accept Parthunax as having a right to live)
I'm not sure what the solution is. Unlike say, Mass Effect, where the story is more linearised and the options can be controlled better, it isn't enough to give the illusion of choice, especially given the scope of the game, while at the same time, the improvement made by voice acting is undeniable. By the illusion of choice, in a game like Mass Effect, the player is given many choices, but they're of a trivial or non-flowing nature, and don't greatly effect the course of the game. Hence, while a few details need to be changed, it doesn't necessarily effect the outcome, a character lives, or a character dies, that's it for the most part,.
I'd suggest that maybe TES doesn't need to do it, but I'd like an old school RPG of the Morrowind vein with a bigger focus on openness of interpretations. In fact, making something even more open than Morrowind would be even better.
Hmm, i enjoy playing 2D RPGs even today, which of course don´t have any voice acting, but can create a thrilling atmosphere anyways (imo).
But in an RPG like Skyrim, that has such stunningly beautiful grafics, wouldn´t you miss voice-overs? I mean it looks kind of weird when you see moving lips without hearing anything
But in an RPG like Skyrim, that has such stunningly beautiful grafics, wouldn´t you miss voice-overs? I mean it looks kind of weird when you see moving lips without hearing anything
I voted yes, but there's a better answer: Keep the voice acting, but have it be in a fictional language. With the dialogue in a language no one understands, you don't need to voice every line and can use generic recorded lines for as much written text as you want.
Should we go back to riding horses instead of driving cars?
Hear me out here. There are some benefits using horses instead of cars provide. However progress only ever moves in one way.
The days of text based RPGS are at an end. The way Bethesda handled VA in Skyrim is the best job they've done so far (Except that one dude with the scratchy voice... He did Mercer Frey and a few others.)
Hear me out here. There are some benefits using horses instead of cars provide. However progress only ever moves in one way.
The days of text based RPGS are at an end. The way Bethesda handled VA in Skyrim is the best job they've done so far (Except that one dude with the scratchy voice... He did Mercer Frey and a few others.)
Nope.
Boring to sit through. I don't pick up a video game to read, I read books to read. I pick up a video game to play a game.
Someone needs to dim the Nostalgia lights in here. It's blinding to me.
Boring to sit through. I don't pick up a video game to read, I read books to read. I pick up a video game to play a game.
Someone needs to dim the Nostalgia lights in here. It's blinding to me.
No.
I'm a console gamer and I'm not stupid. I don't have an aversion to reading. Heck, In Mass Effect I read every log entry. There's lots and lots of reading available for you in the modern console games.
I like voice acting because I like voice acting, not because I'm lazy or stupid or have a lack of imagination. I like voice acting because is a wonderful art form and adds a lot to a game. I still remember Sara Kestleman's work as Kreia in KotOR 2...Amazing! Actually KotOR 2 was full of amazing voice acting all around. Shohreh Aghdashloo was great in Mass Effect 2...the minute I heard her voice I was stopped in my tracks--my buddies as well.
Heck most of the most dramatic moments in gaming for me was also accompanied by really great voice acting.
Do I love Morrowind? Yes. But not because of the non-voiced dialogue. Rather, because the writing overall was really good...and I'm not talking about dialogue. I'm talking about the sense that they had someone who knew cultural anthropology and political science on board to craft really compelling conundrums and world for those conundrums to be a part of. They dealt with colonialism and ethics so well...structurally, not in your individual choices of dialogue. Oblivion didn't have the nuance and mystery and culture of Morrowind. But that didn't have anything to do with the dialogue system. As a matter of fact, one of the most moving moments of Morrowind for me was voiced, when Azura speaks to you at the end and when Azura speaks to you in general. That moment would have been way less powerful if it had been text only.
I'm a console gamer and I'm not stupid. I don't have an aversion to reading. Heck, In Mass Effect I read every log entry. There's lots and lots of reading available for you in the modern console games.
I like voice acting because I like voice acting, not because I'm lazy or stupid or have a lack of imagination. I like voice acting because is a wonderful art form and adds a lot to a game. I still remember Sara Kestleman's work as Kreia in KotOR 2...Amazing! Actually KotOR 2 was full of amazing voice acting all around. Shohreh Aghdashloo was great in Mass Effect 2...the minute I heard her voice I was stopped in my tracks--my buddies as well.
Heck most of the most dramatic moments in gaming for me was also accompanied by really great voice acting.
Do I love Morrowind? Yes. But not because of the non-voiced dialogue. Rather, because the writing overall was really good...and I'm not talking about dialogue. I'm talking about the sense that they had someone who knew cultural anthropology and political science on board to craft really compelling conundrums and world for those conundrums to be a part of. They dealt with colonialism and ethics so well...structurally, not in your individual choices of dialogue. Oblivion didn't have the nuance and mystery and culture of Morrowind. But that didn't have anything to do with the dialogue system. As a matter of fact, one of the most moving moments of Morrowind for me was voiced, when Azura speaks to you at the end and when Azura speaks to you in general. That moment would have been way less powerful if it had been text only.
Ugh...Anthraxus said:
UGHHHH....HerbertTheHamster said:
You really think that generalizing millions of people as idiots will make you look any better? Guys, seriously, can we stop this? The only thing you are doing is making yourself look like a bunch of juvenile shits, fucking hell, this is worse than the Console wars.
But back on topic: I wouldn't mind text if I could read it. Don't know if my TV or the text itself is too small, but it just looks like a mess. Oh and if they made it less like Morrowind where dudes would just spout WALLS OF TEXT without you getting a word in. Give the character more options to contribute to the conversation instead of just reading/listening what the NPC is saying.
I like voice acting and all, but I voted "no" for 2 reasons... I want more dialog options sometimes/less repeated voices, and I can read faster than they can talk. I suppose if they could just really, really put more budget into voice acting then I'd be happy with it exclusively.
Again, I do like the voice acting, I just don't like the limitations it imposes.
I don't see why there can't be a mix. Like, "random" NPCs have pretty generic voice acting (think guards in Skyrim) and lots of text chat - tho I mean more like unique chat, like if you need help finding someplace it's easier for them to make dynamic directions in text than to have a hundred voiced lines. Then for main story/quest NPCs they could be voiced.
Again, I do like the voice acting, I just don't like the limitations it imposes.
I don't see why there can't be a mix. Like, "random" NPCs have pretty generic voice acting (think guards in Skyrim) and lots of text chat - tho I mean more like unique chat, like if you need help finding someplace it's easier for them to make dynamic directions in text than to have a hundred voiced lines. Then for main story/quest NPCs they could be voiced.
I always thought of it as a vocal minority who always hated how choice in games was being eroded and how we should all go back to text boxes.
Though having never played planescape or being able to get myself into Deus Ex or Fallout 1 or 2, I don't really have the reference points.
The way I see it (and maybe I'm in the minority) but if I'm playing a game that's anything from 5-100 hours, I feel that giving me a choice on what to do just means I'm missing stuff. As fun as a "choose your own adventure" book is, they're never as good as a normal book, and even if it was a choose your own adventure book written by Johnathon Stroud, I'd still resent having to re-read the first 50 pages just to get a different page on page 51.
And designers/producers feel the same way, they know most people will only play the game once, if that (look at the % marks on steam achievements, a lot of people don't even play the games they buy), And if you've spent major amounts on designing an area, or writing a story branch, you'll want the player to see it. It's uneconomical to cater to the very few who enjoy playing the same game over and over again.
For me - A game has to be tremendous for me to get to the end and be willing to immediately sit through the first section again. To my knowledge - the only time I have done this is with Zeno Clash (And the only decision to be made there was to not use any weapons, though that had a lot to do with the incredible combat in that game).
But mostly, I want to be engrossed in the world. Voice acting, even if I skip it, does engross me, whereas having to read ten pages of dialog does not. If I wanted a book, I could very easily pick one off my shelf which is far superior to any videogame plot.
Though having never played planescape or being able to get myself into Deus Ex or Fallout 1 or 2, I don't really have the reference points.
The way I see it (and maybe I'm in the minority) but if I'm playing a game that's anything from 5-100 hours, I feel that giving me a choice on what to do just means I'm missing stuff. As fun as a "choose your own adventure" book is, they're never as good as a normal book, and even if it was a choose your own adventure book written by Johnathon Stroud, I'd still resent having to re-read the first 50 pages just to get a different page on page 51.
And designers/producers feel the same way, they know most people will only play the game once, if that (look at the % marks on steam achievements, a lot of people don't even play the games they buy), And if you've spent major amounts on designing an area, or writing a story branch, you'll want the player to see it. It's uneconomical to cater to the very few who enjoy playing the same game over and over again.
For me - A game has to be tremendous for me to get to the end and be willing to immediately sit through the first section again. To my knowledge - the only time I have done this is with Zeno Clash (And the only decision to be made there was to not use any weapons, though that had a lot to do with the incredible combat in that game).
But mostly, I want to be engrossed in the world. Voice acting, even if I skip it, does engross me, whereas having to read ten pages of dialog does not. If I wanted a book, I could very easily pick one off my shelf which is far superior to any videogame plot.
