Poll: Skyrim: The Armour complaint.

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Its an issue becuase it removes more customisation, for fucking graphics.

I now have less parts to customize and enchant, giving me less options. Less options is bad.

But if you had more options then the filth-encrusted console gamers wouldn't be able to understand!
And we don't want that!
Because obviously console gamers just die when they see numbers...
From what i can tell, this just means that their will be less armour pieces, and i already hated the one full armour piece in Oblivion, which was that Dark Brotherhood spandex thing.
So, i'm not sure what Bethesda are trying to do here.

 

[William Dickbringer]

-SNIP-

I don't understand why they are getting upset most likely a modder will get upset and make a mod for it fixing it therefore they can wear armor however they want
as for me I don't care it's not a game breaker and people who are complaining are just bitching about nothing
it's almost as stupid as sonic fans complaining about sonic's eyes being colored

 

[ultrachicken]

I like making my character look cool and different. Know those cool characters with cool outfits in fantasy stuff? Do you think they wear one item as an outfit? No.
The Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a game of open-ended variety where you can do and be what you want. So how is limiting us more than Morrowind, (two games back) advancing the series?
I dont want TESX to have one long sword and 2 outfits that are one item each with only 3 spell schools, with 2 spells each.
Stop removing spells, weapons, armors, skills, abilities, variety, uniqueness.
Bethesda....you're making it harer to love you. Im tired of Morrowind being my favorite game. I want Skyrim to replace it...but this doesnt sound like how you do that.

There seem to be a few problems with your complaints. They haven't removed spells. I assume you're talking about the "removal" of mysticism, which was actually just merging the spells with other schools. Oh, and they have added what is essentially a new school of magic: the dragon shouts. They are all varied and have awesome effects. Plus, the magic system is now deepened by allowing you to combine spells. So what's the problem?

I agree that the removal of polearms is a bit annoying.

Did anyone use medium armor in Morrowind? It's by far the worst choice of armor type, with no real justification for wearing it. As for the increased armor slots, I don't feel that it added anything to the game to have to spend 10 hours hunting for a complete armor set. I like my armor to match, not to look like some kind of hobo who just picks up what he can find.

Let's review the skills that were in Morrowind and won't be in Skyrim: Spear, Athletics, Acrobatics, Mysticism, Long Blade, Short Blade, Axe, Blunt Weapon, Medium Armor, Hand-To-Hand. Sure, it seems like a lot, until you realize that with the exception of Spear and Medium Armor, you can still do all of those skills. They have simply been merged together so that the game isn't unnecessarily bogged down with extraneous stuff.

I don't understand how variety is being removed. Variety of what?

On the topic of uniqueness, I'll assume you're talking about setting. True, Morrowind had giant mushrooms and some weird creatures, but let's not forget that the majority of the game world is a bunch of brown mountains and caves. Very little has been revealed about the creatures of Skyrim, so I think that complaining about that is jumping the gun. As for setting, harsh, icy mountains juxtaposed by chilly tundras, birchwood forests, and rocky valleys are not as weird as certain regions of Morrowind, but I'll be damned if they don't look better. The region variety has skyrocketed and the aesthetics are ten times better. But that's just the wilderness. The cities all have a distinct Conan the Barbarian feel that you don't see very often in gaming.

 

[Gabriel Dragulia]

The only solution that they can do, keeping this system, in my opinion (there may be other, better solutions) is to add in more variety in the kit available to the player.

Well, to be fair, if you read the last line of the post from Bethesda, it actually says: "We can also make a lot more armors now, so the number and variation types are more than we've ever had." (which I just copy-pasted from the quote in the first post).
so, two pieces of armour become one... but you will get a lot more armours... so there's your solution found at least =]

 

[Saelune]

I like making my character look cool and different. Know those cool characters with cool outfits in fantasy stuff? Do you think they wear one item as an outfit? No.
The Elder Scrolls is supposed to be a game of open-ended variety where you can do and be what you want. So how is limiting us more than Morrowind, (two games back) advancing the series?
I dont want TESX to have one long sword and 2 outfits that are one item each with only 3 spell schools, with 2 spells each.
Stop removing spells, weapons, armors, skills, abilities, variety, uniqueness.
Bethesda....you're making it harer to love you. Im tired of Morrowind being my favorite game. I want Skyrim to replace it...but this doesnt sound like how you do that.

There seem to be a few problems with your complaints. They haven't removed spells. I assume you're talking about the "removal" of mysticism, which was actually just merging the spells with other schools. Oh, and they have added what is essentially a new school of magic: the dragon shouts. They are all varied and have awesome effects. Plus, the magic system is now deepened by allowing you to combine spells. So what's the problem?

I agree that the removal of polearms is a bit annoying.

Did anyone use medium armor in Morrowind? It's by far the worst choice of armor type, with no real justification for wearing it. As for the increased armor slots, I don't feel that it added anything to the game to have to spend 10 hours hunting for a complete armor set. I like my armor to match, not to look like some kind of hobo who just picks up what he can find.

Let's review the skills that were in Morrowind and won't be in Skyrim: Spear, Athletics, Acrobatics, Mysticism, Long Blade, Short Blade, Axe, Blunt Weapon, Medium Armor, Hand-To-Hand. Sure, it seems like a lot, until you realize that with the exception of Spear and Medium Armor, you can still do all of those skills. They have simply been merged together so that the game isn't unnecessarily bogged down with extraneous stuff.

I don't understand how variety is being removed. Variety of what?

On the topic of uniqueness, I'll assume you're talking about setting. True, Morrowind had giant mushrooms and some weird creatures, but let's not forget that the majority of the game world is a bunch of brown mountains and caves. Very little has been revealed about the creatures of Skyrim, so I think that complaining about that is jumping the gun. As for setting, harsh, icy mountains juxtaposed by chilly tundras, birchwood forests, and rocky valleys are not as weird as certain regions of Morrowind, but I'll be damned if they don't look better. The region variety has skyrocketed and the aesthetics are ten times better. But that's just the wilderness. The cities all have a distinct Conan the Barbarian feel that you don't see very often in gaming.

Im also taking into account of stuff removed from Oblivion that was present in Morrowind
Stuff removed/restricted since Morrowind:

Belts, gloves, pauldrons (L/R), greaves, split gauntlets, crossbows, throwing stars and daggers, varied potion bottles, varied soul gems, levitation, mark, recall, divine intervention (almsivi is regional spell, so omitted) clothes under armor, robes over armor, beards, short blade, axe, unarmored, medium armor(it still added variety, but i could be fine without it)

Im sure theres more.

Edit: I mentioned it, but to ensure you understand, by variety I mean that in Morrowind, a lesser soulgem and a greater soulgem were identifiable by sight alone as they had distinct appearances from eachother. Potions looked different based on more than potion/poison, but rather quality and weight. About 4 or 5 different bottles.
There were alot more styles of clothing too, and armor. And it was not all tiered. Everyone who wears heavy armor is going to wear the same armor at the same level. In Morrowind though, that is less likely. One set of armor, bonemold, was extremely varied.

I liked this. Is this purely visual? Yes. But video games are VISUAL. And this kind of detail I find more immersive than any level of "graphical power". Things look less amazing when its always the same thing.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

 

[ChupathingyX]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

The reason people are complaining is because in Morrowind the armour pieces were much more varied and you had more freedom in choosing your armour. Also in Morrowind you could wear clothes under your armour.

Ever since Morrowind the Elder Scrolls games seem to have less and less options for role-playing.

 

[emptyother]

I don't understand why they are getting upset most likely a modder will get upset and make a mod for it fixing it...

Sorry, modding isn't like magic.
Can't mod stuff like this. To achieve multi-part armor would need some serious hacking, then the hacker would have to redo every armor in game. If he managed to somehow do this, his mod would probably be incompatible with all other mods.

And why are we getting upset? Because sequels are supposed to be the same as the original or more. Not less.
What if they released Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery? Would you buy it?

I will still buy Skyrim, but thats not because of what they removed, but because of what they added (Dragons! Vikings!). Because the saying "Less is More" isnt applicable to everything.

 

[Saelune]

ALL RPG games have a combined pants and shirts system. How come people didn't complain about this for Dragon Age? What about Fallout? What about fucking Mount and Blade: Warband? That's right I just brought THAT into the table.

Having separate options for pants is just unnecessarily obtuse. Getting rid of this tiny, little feature does NOT make the game "dumbed down".

Morrowind did not. Morrowind had tons of clothing variety. Thats why I complain MORE about it in a TES game. But I also wish Dragon Age and Fallout had variety. I played a mage in DAO, and I only ever wore two outfits...that sucked though. I did not get much variety to my character's appearance, and that hindered it.

 

[TheLoneBeet]

It's gotten to the point where I don't even care. I enjoyed having two different gloves or two different boots or two different pauldrons (remember those?) or pauldrons at all. They're slowly mashing pieces of armor into each other and it's just gotten to the point I don't care. Yes it's good for those who enjoy wearing a full set of matching armor. It's no good for those who like to mix it up. In the end it's not going to affect much gameplay (you don't really see your own character a lot unless you're playing third person which is ridiculous) so I just don't care.

I don't. Don't look at me like that.

 

[Yopaz]

"In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary."

This is what I have a problem with. They're talking about armor like people only use it for how it looks and not for, you know, the stats.

And you don't think the stats and the actual use of stats will be changed according to this? If the full armour gives the same amount of defense as the individual pieces in Oblivion, no problem. If you don't need as much defense as you need in Oblivion, no problem. If this is however Oblivion where they removed two thirds of your defense, that's a huge problem. Now, did they make Skyrim as a mod to Oblivion where everything is the same except you get 2 pieces less of armour?

OT: I honestly think this is a good thing. It looks better when all pieces of the armour actually fits together. You get less of the WoW feeling with mismatched equipment as you progress.

 

[hawkeye52]

For the people who like to number crunch which according to a recent topic is about 50% this is an absolute ***** slap. We like to optimise for a reason

 

[Pat8u]

um so they are doing the same thing they did with the arena armour meh

 

[The Cheezy One]

I can't be the only person who read the title as 'the armour of contempt' /W40k joke.

I'd actually prefer the new method, but that might just be me.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

The reason people are complaining is because in Morrowind the armour pieces were much more varied and you had more freedom in choosing your armour. Also in Morrowind you could wear clothes under your armour.

Ever since Morrowind the Elder Scrolls games seem to have less and less options for role-playing.

I forgot to put a "nowadays" in the first sentence of my comment. The thing is: How is the ability to wear mismatching armor "roleplaying"? Choosing your own dialogue options is roleplaying. Dropping a sword in a town and having someone return it to you is Roleplaying. Customizing your character's skills is roleplaying. Getting married to NPCs [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298885-Skyrim-to-have-fable-3-like-features] is Roleplaying, and I haven't seen a SINGLE positive comment in that entire thread!

Sorry but, I honestly think that "lack of roleplaying options" is an excuse. It's just the "taking away of slight, arbitrary complexities" that invokes unnecessary fear among us PC gamers. It's understandable.......but a bit silly.

But I also wish Dragon Age and Fallout had variety. I played a mage in DAO, and I only ever wore two outfits...that sucked though. I did not get much variety to my character's appearance, and that hindered it.

Magi wear robes.......even if you could wear pants......you wouldn't be able to see them. :/

And yeah as a Mage player myself, I agree that Dragon Age 1 had a startlingly rare selection of robe designs, but that's a fault of the game; not the system. That being said, I can't bring myself to blame Bioware so much, considering just how fucking massive the rest of the game was.

You could always mod in some robes though? Or just learn Arcane Warrior

What if they released Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery? Would you buy it?

What if they release Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery.....

......but several times better Resolution (Graphics), A new stable iOS (new Engine), A much bigger capacity (gameworld) and FUCKING DRAGONS!!

It's easy to see "just the bad" and make stupid statements accordingly. That's how FOX news works after all.

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

Honestly getting upset over something as insignificant as this just seems stupid.
Being able to have more people on screen would mean you could have more epic battles. You would also get more armor sets to choose from.
Honestly how much does this actually affect how you will enjoy the game vs how it might improve it.

 

[Gabriel Dragulia]

The ways I see it, the aesthetics are more important to the developers than the extra armor slot. Sucks if you don't like it, but that's your opinion, and it's probably not going to change anything. I for one could not care less, and am still eagerly anticipating the game.

Did you just say aesthetics are more important than customization in an RPG? Pardon my brevity, but how long have you been playing RPGs? I'd much rather have horrible looking armor with tons of customization and depth any day. I'll take Morrowind's 11 armor slots with horrid looking armor over Skyrim's 5 any day. RPGs aren't about looking good-- it's about building your character, and customizing them to the letter. From what I have seen, Bethesda is intent on restricting your scope of customization as far as they can do still remain in the realm of an RPG... maybe they'll even strip it so far such that Skyrim is just an action game.

This is what I was talking about-- they just want to make action games for people like you. People who really aren't into RPGs. I'm glad you acknowledge that I am reserved to hold my own opinion however.

Great that you're glad to hold your own opinion.
On the other hand, Slowpool here only states his view/opinion. And is pretty clear about the fact that this is how HE sees it. It may not be everybody's view, but it's his.
still you talk down to him because "you have so much more experience with RPGs, and you have been playing them before all of us were even born" or something along those lines. And no, that is not exactly how you said it, and you can probably find some kind of counter-arguement about how I pulled that out of context. Fact is, trying to act all high and mighty because you've been playing so much more than all of us.
He allows you to hold your opinion. Allow him to have his view and opinion, without you drilling it into the ground, because you obviously know better.

 

[C95J]

Is is just me, or does anyone else imagine lots of the complaining is coming from fans who can't run around as just a topless woman anymore

Anyway I have no problem with this, it doesn't exactly change much.

 

[Saelune]

The reason people are complaining is because in Morrowind the armour pieces were much more varied and you had more freedom in choosing your armour. Also in Morrowind you could wear clothes under your armour.

Ever since Morrowind the Elder Scrolls games seem to have less and less options for role-playing.

I forgot to put a "nowadays" in the first sentence of my comment. The thing is: How is the ability to wear mismatching armor "roleplaying"? Choosing your own dialogue options is roleplaying. Dropping a sword in a town and having someone return it to you is Roleplaying. Customizing your character's skills is roleplaying. Getting married to NPCs [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298885-Skyrim-to-have-fable-3-like-features] is Roleplaying, and I haven't seen a SINGLE positive comment in that entire thread!

Sorry but, I honestly think that "lack of roleplaying options" is an excuse. It's just the "taking away of slight, arbitrary complexities" that invokes unnecessary fear among us PC gamers. It's understandable.......but a bit silly.

But I also wish Dragon Age and Fallout had variety. I played a mage in DAO, and I only ever wore two outfits...that sucked though. I did not get much variety to my character's appearance, and that hindered it.

Magi wear robes.......even if you could wear pants......you wouldn't be able to see them. :/

And yeah as a Mage player myself, I agree that Dragon Age 1 had a startlingly rare selection of robe designs, but that's a fault of the game; not the system. That being said, I can't bring myself to blame Bioware so much, considering just how fucking massive the rest of the game was.

You could always mod in some robes though? Or just learn Arcane Warrior

What if they released Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery? Would you buy it?

What if they release Iphone 5 exactly the same as Iphone 4, but with 2 hours less battery.....

......but several times better Resolution (Graphics), A new stable iOS (new Engine), A much bigger capacity (gameworld) and FUCKING DRAGONS!!

It's easy to see "just the bad" and make stupid statements accordingly. That's how FOX news works after all.

Role playing is playing a role. RPing a "goth" would require wearing dark clothing and what not. Whatyou wear is RPing. Everything you do to be in character is role playing.

I like freedom. Choosing what I wear is freedom too. And fuck mods. Mods mods mods. How about we ship a game that is fine as it is so us non modders can enjoy it. Not everyone mods and not every problem should be answered with "mod it".

 

[ChupathingyX]

I forgot to put a "nowadays" in the first sentence of my comment. The thing is: How is the ability to wear mismatching armor "roleplaying"? Choosing your own dialogue options is roleplaying. Dropping a sword in a town and having someone return it to you is Roleplaying. Customizing your character's skills is roleplaying. Getting married to NPCs [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.298885-Skyrim-to-have-fable-3-like-features] is Roleplaying, and I haven't seen a SINGLE positive comment in that entire thread!

Sorry but, I honestly think that "lack of roleplaying options" is an excuse. It's just the "taking away of slight, arbitrary complexities" that invokes unnecessary fear among us PC gamers. It's understandable.......but a bit silly.

I should've mentioned in my post that I was also talking about the Elder Scrolls series in general and role-playing.

When it comes to armour I personally don't just wear whatever has the ebst stats, I prefer to wear armour and clothes that suits my characters and their personality. Some people do want to wear a mix-up of clothes if that's their character. Yes, dialogue, fighting style and all that is more important to RPing but armour can still say something about a character.

As for the Elder Scrolls series in general, the amount of joinable factions, magic and weapon variety has been lowering since Morrowind and there just seem to be less and less RPing choices in Bethesda games in general (Fallout 3 included). But that's too off topic so I won't say anything else.