Poll: 'Stop The Olympic Missiles' and you...

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Something I find funny about this: in the US, a very strong argument could be made that this was unconstitutional under the third amendment, which reads "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." You know why we have the third amendment? Because redcoats were quartered in people's homes in exactly that manner in colonial times. Some things never change, I guess XD

They arn't in peoples homes, they are on a social-housing block owned by the council. The council have given them permission, so there is no legal issue...

Ironically in WWII if there was fighting in Urban Areas the American soldiers were very quick to take up camp in someones livingroom/basement whether they were let in or not...

Being serious now are anti air missiles really necessary as an counter terrorist measure for the olympics? I imagine having a fight or two ready just in case of a major incident but unless terrorist cells have secert airship fleets I think this is a tad excessive.

I reitterate that every nation hosting the Olymics or a major sporting event in recent years has put inmeasures like this... not only that, but most nations have SAM networks as standard peacetime defense... We have the worlds busiest air routes flying near London, and these sites are meant to act as a deterrant for anyone planning to attack.

 

[Hoplon]

I have been watching with interest the stories of the 'Stop the Olympic Missiles' protesters, and their apparenty futile efforts to oppose the deployment of Rapier and Starstreak SAM sites to their residencies.

Now, don't get me wrong, the deployment of these sites without the consultation of the residences I agree with. It should have been announced and discussed before hand, but that is the only thing I agree with in the whole affair.

I personally think that the missiles should be deployed as a deterrant in the locations in London. They are an intrinsic part of an Integrated Air Defence System, and their use is a last line of defence against a threat to air.

The location of these sites is very unlikely to attract attacks to their locations, and the munitions don't pose any risk to the people who live there, so I think it is a selfish, and not well thought out plan to try and get rid of them.

Well... that is my opinion on the matter... What is yours?

(For more information see these links...)

I think if your having to shoot things down over a city you're already fucked.

 

[Versuvius]

The problem is that they have had 7 years to find a solution to the 'terror' problem and have never once mentioned this or consulted the people who it will effect. It's been 7 years of spinning on their head in buckets of cocaine and suddenly deciding MISSILES ON RESIDENTALS.

Also a guy on page 1 suggested that everyone affected would be living there for free so their arguments are invalid. Fuck you buddy.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ironically in WWII if there was fighting in Urban Areas the American soldiers were very quick to take up camp in someones livingroom/basement whether they were let in or not...

Not in the houses of US citizens, though.

 

[Fasckira]

I think it's a great idea, and most of the people living in the flats are probably there for free anyway. Quit whining, I say - it's hardly the worst thing about living in said areas!

This in a nutshell. Majority of the flats, if not all of them, are council flats. The tenants have bugger all rights to the building anyway.

Actually, come to think of it, fuck it. Might be easier to paint big targets on said council blocks and invite terrorists to focus on them. Worst case scenario is that Jeremy Kyle would lose a fraction of his audience.

I am of course being glib but I really don't see the problem in the proposed plans, its for national safety. The only thing I'd probably worry about if I lived there is becoming a target for terrorists by having them there but as has been mentioned before the terrorist threat is pretty low.

 

[GonvilleBromhead]

The problem is that they have had 7 years to find a solution to the 'terror' problem and have never once mentioned this or consulted the people who it will effect. It's been 7 years of spinning on their head in buckets of cocaine and suddenly deciding MISSILES ON RESIDENTALS.

Or they have been working on the plans for seven years and came to the realisation the only way to provide in depth coverage from an aerial terror attack requires these buildings, due to their positioning and roof size and shape was to use these buildings. The owners of the buildings have been compensated, and the residents are free to move out whenever they want.

Also a guy on page 1 suggested that everyone affected would be living there for free so their arguments are invalid. Fuck you buddy.[/quote]

Not invalid, but you get what you pay for. It rather strikes me as giving a homeless person a sandwich and them complaining that it's got mustard in it.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason these have become a terrorist target is because it has been because the location has been broadcast everywhere simply by them whiny about it. As such they only have themselves to blame. TBPH, the MoD shouldn't have told anyone where they were

 

[Worgen]

London has 5 airports around it, there are gonna be planes in the air, its a bigger risk that someone would get an itchy trigger finger and shoot one down, rather then someone actually high-jack one. Assuming of course those are real missiles and not just dummies to make it look like they are doing something. Its much more likely that some asshole would just do a homemade bomb, that seems to happen in almost every Olympics.

The itchy trigger finger scenario cannot happen... these launchers are operated by trained professionals at a much higher level of training than say, the Syrians that shot down the Turkish F4s. The order to fire has to come from a senior level politician and them only, the sites are not running autonimously with a local commander.

Then why do they need the missiles at all? I mean it sounds like the assumption your making is that they would be used to shoot down a, known long in advance hijacked plane, in which case you don't need the missiles, they would have plenty of time to scramble fighters, assuming there aren't fighters already flying over head.

 

[Bassik]

Keep 'em affraid, makes 'em easier to rule.

Security MUST be maintained. Otherwise the Terrorists etcetera.

 

[Henkie36]

I do see why people get so upset about it. I mean, put yourself in their shoes: would you be happy if one day soldiers were on your doorstep and were like: "move away, very dangerous rockets coming through, nothing to worry about''. They could have announced or discussed it better with the people living there. That said, I do believe it's a good thing that they go to such great lenghts to ensure the sercurity of such a massive event.

 

[Heronblade]

I think it's a goddamned ridiculous and unnecessary piece of security theatre that was forced on the residents of the sites over their very vocal objections. I also think it's really sad that a country that fought off real invasions from Spain, France, and Germany over the centuries should get into such an alarmist pearl-clutching the-sky-might-fall state over an imagined and extremely unlikely threat.

I'd actually say that their experiences with Germany is probably a reason they are doing this.

Do you have any idea how close the Germans came to bombing London and several other English cities into little more than smoking craters? They failed, but it was primarily due to administrative problems on their end, the third Reich was already breaking up due to its master's... instability.

Perhaps someone who lives there can tell us how much of an effect the Blitz still has on the government's thinking. I understand a few of their older building still carry scars from that event.

 

[Hoplon]

I think it's a great idea, and most of the people living in the flats are probably there for free anyway. Quit whining, I say - it's hardly the worst thing about living in said areas!

This in a nutshell. Majority of the flats, if not all of them, are council flats. The tenants have bugger all rights to the building anyway.

Actually, come to think of it, fuck it. Might be easier to paint big targets on said council blocks and invite terrorists to focus on them. Worst case scenario is that Jeremy Kyle would lose a fraction of his audience.

I am of course being glib but I really don't see the problem in the proposed plans, its for national safety. The only thing I'd probably worry about if I lived there is becoming a target for terrorists by having them there but as has been mentioned before the terrorist threat is pretty low.

Actually round there (where I was living till recently) is a mix of private an council at almost 50/50.

One of the places concerned is Bow Quarter where my brother and his wife lived. Very hi spec apartment complex.

The SAM sights are pointless, what idiot would even let the plane over the city?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Do you have any idea how close the Germans came to bombing London and several other English cities into little more than smoking craters? They failed, but it was primarily due to administrative problems on their end, the third Reich was already breaking up due to its master's... instability.

Er, the Germans didn't even come close. They could make a hell of a mess, but destroying the cities? Not going to happen.

However, it did loom large in the UK's collective memory, it's said a lot of movies about aliens attacking cities from the skies was inspired by it.

 

[goodman528]

Who are these missiles going to shoot at anyway?! Aliens? It's not like we are at war with any nation capable of flying jets over London, and it's not like we have the guts to shoot down a hijacked civilian plane over a populated area like London.

I will go and see the Olympics and I am worried about security, but NOT this kind of security concern. I'm 95% worried about getting my money and passport stolen by thieves due to the overcrowding, and 5% worried about terrorist gas or bomb attack in an overcrowded tube station.

This is a complete waste of money. More police, better policing, better crowd control, and even more importantly make a more usable and informative website! The olympic tickets website is so rubbish it's like they asked a class of high school kids to make it. Actually thinking about it, a class of high school kids would have done a better job than them.

 

[Buzz Killington_v1legacy]

Perhaps someone who lives there can tell us how much of an effect the Blitz still has on the government's thinking.

I do live there--I live less than two miles southwest of the Blackheath Common missile site. I've also lived in Exeter, where the downtown area was almost completely rebuilt after the Blitz, and I stand by my original statement: this is a ludicrous over-reaction that will at best be completely pointless and at worst rain burning jet fuel and jagged metal over large swathes of East London.

There's nothing these missiles can do that can't be handled by fighter planes and the destroyer they're planning to park in the Thames. All this is an excuse by the Tories to inconvenience people and try to look tough on terrorism, two of their favorite activities.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Perhaps someone who lives there can tell us how much of an effect the Blitz still has on the government's thinking.

I do live there--I live less than two miles southwest of the Blackheath Common missile site. I've also lived in Exeter, where the downtown area was almost completely rebuilt after the Blitz, and I stand by my original statement: this is a ludicrous over-reaction that will at best be completely pointless and at worst rain burning jet fuel and jagged metal over large swathes of East London.

There's nothing these missiles can do that can't be handled by fighter planes and the destroyer they're planning to park in the Thames. All this is an excuse by the Tories to inconvenience people and try to look tough on terrorism, two of their favorite activities.

It's a helicopter landing platform in the thames... not good against air...

And the SAMs are contingency if the Jets (that are the first line of defence) fail or are busy...

Also the SAMS have a bigger footprint... burning fuel and shrapnel over a part of East London is a small price to pay for saving the lives of THOUSANDS if a plane were to go into the stadium... it is not an over reaction, it is standard procedure, and is the same level of protection most countries have as standard at normal security levels...

Then why do they need the missiles at all? I mean it sounds like the assumption your making is that they would be used to shoot down a, known long in advance hijacked plane, in which case you don't need the missiles, they would have plenty of time to scramble fighters, assuming there aren't fighters already flying over head.

It won't be known long in advance... worst case scenario is a plane is hijacked from Heathrow or Gatwick... which are damn close to east London! Doesn't leave much time for reaction, and therefore the purpose of the launchers is a deterrance to anyone planning on hijacking an aircraft...

If a plane was hijacked and suicided the stadium imagine the shit the military would get for not shooting it down... I can imagine the Sun headline now: O'lympics attacked; Military had weapons but didn't deploy them...'

 

[Worgen]

Then why do they need the missiles at all? I mean it sounds like the assumption your making is that they would be used to shoot down a, known long in advance hijacked plane, in which case you don't need the missiles, they would have plenty of time to scramble fighters, assuming there aren't fighters already flying over head.

It won't be known long in advance... worst case scenario is a plane is hijacked from Heathrow or Gatwick... which are damn close to east London! Doesn't leave much time for reaction, and therefore the purpose of the launchers is a deterrance to anyone planning on hijacking an aircraft...

If a plane was hijacked and suicided the stadium imagine the shit the military would get for not shooting it down... I can imagine the Sun headline now: O'lympics attacked; Military had weapons but didn't deploy them...'

Exactly, if they are expecting to have to make a split second decision regarding firing the missiles then there can't be a complex chain of command to fire the missiles, in which case the itchy trigger finger is a big risk.

You'r train of thought is a bit weird here. You can use that justification for anything, in fact people have used it, usually for horrible things, like wanting to kick out all the muslims from the us after 911.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Exactly, if they are expecting to have to make a split second decision regarding firing the missiles then there can't be a complex chain of command to fire the missiles, in which case the itchy trigger finger is a big risk.

You'r train of thought is a bit weird here. You can use that justification for anything, in fact people have used it, usually for horrible things, like wanting to kick out all the muslims from the us after 911.

Where did the complex chain of command come from? The decision comes from the top, but that doesn't mean complex... we don't know the chain of command, but in my work I can phone all the way to my highest boss for a decision very easily... I expect they can too!

I can't see how my train of thought is odd... contingency planning. If I was going to an important meeting/interview and had to travel, say from Bristol to Birmingham, and there was even the remotest chance that there was going to be train delays on the rail line due to maintainance then I would take my car instead, due to how versitile my car is, and how much I can change the plan from then on out.

This is the same thing. The MI5 reports in the papers say that there are no known threats, but there is still a threat, so risks are mitigated... that's called sensible planning isn't it?

 

[Petromir]

I think it's a great idea, and most of the people living in the flats are probably there for free anyway. Quit whining, I say - it's hardly the worst thing about living in said areas!

Muggings, Violence, Riots: Ooo, lets give them missiles too!
David Cameron is a fucking imbecile. Not because anyone their is smart enough to use them, because someone there is stupid enought to try to dick around with them. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Clearly he has a few more braincells than you. This is a manned missile systm, It will have armed guards........ Strangly The army guard these things whever they are. These weapon systems are field support weapons locally opperateds. Hell the whole point of the one thats causing most of the fuss is that its so indipendant of systems that no matter how much radar and radionjamings going on it will still take out the target. If there are no soldiers on it 24/7 then theres no point in having it there.

London has 5 airports around it, there are gonna be planes in the air, its a bigger risk that someone would get an itchy trigger finger and shoot one down, rather then someone actually high-jack one. Assuming of course those are real missiles and not just dummies to make it look like they are doing something. Its much more likely that some asshole would just do a homemade bomb, that seems to happen in almost every Olympics.

And here is an idiot who has no idea of the type of procedures that the military have in this kind of situation. These will be fired only on direct order from the senior person avaliable. We're talking the Secrarty of State for Defense or the PM sort of level if contactable.

Military SAM systems cover far more flights worldwide than london over a few weeks and they seem to manage not to shoot anyone down.

If these weapons fire it will be against a civilian aircraft suspected of being under terroist control, and the evidnce for that will need to be massive.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I think it's a great idea, and most of the people living in the flats are probably there for free anyway. Quit whining, I say - it's hardly the worst thing about living in said areas!

Muggings, Violence, Riots: Ooo, lets give them missiles too!
David Cameron is a fucking imbecile. Not because anyone their is smart enough to use them, because someone there is stupid enought to try to dick around with them. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Clearly he has a few more *brain cells than you. This is a manned missile *system, It will have armed guards*... *Strangely *the Army guard these things *wherever they are. These weapon systems are field support weapons locally *operated. Hell*, the whole point* *that's causing most of the fuss is that *it's so *independant of systems that no matter how much radar and *radiojammings *are going on it will still take out the target. If there are no soldiers on it 24/7 then *there's no point in having it there.

Comedic effect mixed with a pinch of sarcasm, try picking it up next time, also improve your spelling and grammar if you want to call someone else stupid. The real problem is, any threat that may or may not occur at the olympics won't warrant the missile response. Each missile has a detonation radius of 150 miles or so, which means, circle of death that only serves to kill thousands of our own people and maybe the two or three people who caused the threat in the first place. And do you really believe that two or three armed guards is going to stop a fuckton of idiots and/or nutjobs trying to arse around with the missiles? This entire thing actually helps the people it's supposed to deter, a few hundred of them die detonating it, a few thousand civilians are killed in the resultant explosion. Yes it's unmanned, but you can still detonate a large explosive device by tampering with it. Ironically this is a safety protocol. It's insanely dangerous to put it there, because it will ultimatley just be used against us.

 

[Worgen]

I think it's a great idea, and most of the people living in the flats are probably there for free anyway. Quit whining, I say - it's hardly the worst thing about living in said areas!

Muggings, Violence, Riots: Ooo, lets give them missiles too!
David Cameron is a fucking imbecile. Not because anyone their is smart enough to use them, because someone there is stupid enought to try to dick around with them. This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Clearly he has a few more braincells than you. This is a manned missile systm, It will have armed guards........ Strangly The army guard these things whever they are. These weapon systems are field support weapons locally opperateds. Hell the whole point of the one thats causing most of the fuss is that its so indipendant of systems that no matter how much radar and radionjamings going on it will still take out the target. If there are no soldiers on it 24/7 then theres no point in having it there.

London has 5 airports around it, there are gonna be planes in the air, its a bigger risk that someone would get an itchy trigger finger and shoot one down, rather then someone actually high-jack one. Assuming of course those are real missiles and not just dummies to make it look like they are doing something. Its much more likely that some asshole would just do a homemade bomb, that seems to happen in almost every Olympics.

And here is an idiot who has no idea of the type of procedures that the military have in this kind of situation. These will be fired only on direct order from the senior person avaliable. We're talking the Secrarty of State for Defense or the PM sort of level if contactable.

Military SAM systems cover far more flights worldwide than london over a few weeks and they seem to manage not to shoot anyone down.

If these weapons fire it will be against a civilian aircraft suspected of being under terroist control, and the evidnce for that will need to be massive.

I already addressed that, try and keep up. The higher the command needed, the longer it takes to do and the less point to the whole thing there is, it would be easier just to scramble fighters assuming none are already in the air.