Poll: Superior Character: Batman or Superman

[Joseph Alexander]

The scenario we're talking about is full out, cut loose, no-holds-barred fight from both opponents. Two men using everything they have and are capable of to kill the other with no regard to outside influence. No other heroes or villains. No other people or factors. No interfering ideals, creeds, or beliefs. No deus ex machina from a biased writer.

In which, I must say, I don't see any possibility. It's generally what I think of when discussing a "what if" fight, which I believe everyone else was thinking as well. We aren't considering future storylines from writers since it has no place for speculation, you know?

Everything in the case of Batman includes his entire armory, which as I mentioned can be made as strong as the writer wants without breaking lore as it's contents never was well defined in the first place - who know what Bats have in there.

Deus Ex Machina is subjective. Personally, I define it as, as long as it doesn't break plot consistency then it isn't Deus Ex Machina.

"Batman can play at that too. Just sniper Sups in the back with a kryptonite tip arrow/bullet"
let me get this straight, you think you can hit a man.. with a bullet... who can move faster then said bullet and hear the gun fire even if its on the other side of the planet.

In the context of a surprise attack, Sups wouldn't know it was tip with kryptonite and would just have eaten it.

listen theres only a handful of super heroes who can legibly stop superman, the flashes, captain atom(red sun radiation or any of the myriad of kryptonites),and captain marvel are the only ones who could really do it.

if its just batman vs. superman, supes can just roast him from space.
theres a reason optic blasts are some of the most powerful attacks in comics, they're self aiming sniper rifles, add in telescopic and microscopic vision and its the ultimate weapon.
the second supes looks at bats, no more bats, just a smoking corpse.

In a hand to hand fight yes, only a few can stop him. But Bats doesn't necessarily has to fight fair, he rarely does that against a strong foe that he can't physically beat.

Hide in a armored bunker - his bat caves practically are those. That's the thing, Bats doesn't really need to be present for the fight to be honest. Hide somewhere and nail Sups with missiles load with kryptonite or fire kryptonite lasers at Sups - don't tell me Sups is so powerful that he can dodge those too; he gets smacked around by those pretty often to my knowledge.

Writers, writers, it depends on the writers.

and don't give me none of that miller bullshit about being prepared for everything bats rarely is, he has plans for everything yes but thats not the same as having it in his belt of wonders.
batmans shtick isn't that hes "prepared for everything" its that he can "deal with anything" its not that he has a way, its that he FINDS one.

I disagree. He prepares for almost everything, that is his modus op. Nothing to do with his belt really, that's just one of his many tools.

Whether the said plans are effective or not is another matter.

"Deal with anything" doesn't make sense, as he can only deal with tougher foes if he is prepared unlike Sups.

have you ever even fucking read the comics? is all your going by the TV show and the movies?

no, it doesn't depend on the writers.
it depends on the fact that superman has the strength to move a fucking planet, fast enough to move sub light speed, and able to shoot lasers out of his eyes that can harm DARKSEID out of his eyes from orbit like me or you throwing a paperball into a trashbin.
as is batman doesn't stand a chance in hell against supes if you remove the fanboy writers(aks frank miller).

and you, have no clue what your talking about, superman has telescopic and microscopic x-ray vision, so yes he would know that the bullet was kyrponite tipped or what ever miller bull you want to try and coat it with.
batman is the king of deux ex machina.

 

[deadish]

no, it doesn't depend on the writers.

if you remove the fanboy writers(aks frank miller).

and you, have no clue what your talking about.

If you say so dude. If you say so.

Peace out.

and you, have no clue what your talking about, superman has telescopic and microscopic x-ray vision, so yes he would know that the bullet was kyrponite tipped or what ever miller bull you want to try and coat it with.
batman is the king of deux ex machine.

Right, he scans every bullet that comes his way even if it's just a normal day in the city ... err OK

And did you know bullets move at several times the speed of sound.

Lets just use a kryptonite laser then. He can scan that all he likes. And don't tell me he can dodge that shit. It's LIGHT FUCKING LIGHT!

 

[rednose1]

Batman all the way. Sure, Superman can punch through a sun, fly in space, blah blah blah,....but if they ever went toe to toe, it will always be on Batman's terms. If you were to take Bruce Lee, Sherlock Holmes, and Richie Rich, throw them in a blender, and hit puree...you get Batman.

 

[MordinSolus]

Superman has super powers to save the day.
Batman has his fists and some gadgets he made himself to help him out.

Superman had everything given to him.
Batman gave everything to himself.

Batman wins for being able to do shit himself.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

no, it doesn't depend on the writers.

if you remove the fanboy writers(aks frank miller).

and you, have no clue what your talking about.

If you say so dude. If you say so.

Peace out.

and you, have no clue what your talking about, superman has telescopic and microscopic x-ray vision, so yes he would know that the bullet was kyrponite tipped or what ever miller bull you want to try and coat it with.
batman is the king of deux ex machine.

Right, he scans every bullet that comes his way even if it's just a normal day in the city ... err OK

Lets just use a kryptonite laser then. He can scan that all he likes. And don't tell me he can dodge that shit. It's LIGHT FUCKING LIGHT!

he won't.
but the same argument flash used when fighting Sinestro in the JL show applies here.

 

[deadish]

Again I like to point out to the Cry for Justice miniseries where the antagonist, Prometheus (Basically the antithesis to Batman, he is a human who uses gadgets and his "intellect" to fight heroes. But his whole power comes from his helmet that has fighting data and strategies against most heroes saved. So unlike Batman he cheats), takes a bunch of JLA members out (in their base) at the same time without even breaking a sweat. It seems stupid and unrealistic.

Well, all heroes have weaknesses. Play your cards right, don't see why they can't be beat even if you are not super powered.

In the world of sci-fi ... anything is possible.

Most scenarios about Batman defeating Superman that I heard about are the same. They picture Sups as a complete incompetetent drooling idiot. And that's just it: He isn't.

He does come across that way doesn't he. But "tactics" aren't exactly his strength, he rarely needs any.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

Superman has super powers to save the day.
Batman has his fists and some gadgets he made himself to help him out.

Superman had everything given to him.
Batman gave everything to himself.

Batman wins for being able to do shit himself.

"Batman gave everything to himself"
"Batman wins for being able to do shit himself"
...do i really need to explain the idiocy of these statements?
batmans... well everything is inherited.
his money, his company, and his tools are all provided for him.
and unlike several other billionaire superheroes hes never had the arc where he was dirt poor, tony drank himself destitute, ollie lost his millions, and herc gambled it away(granted being a god it really didn't matter).

 

[Spectrre]

Hell if I could fly and see through women's clothing then I would be a tyrannical super-being that would enslave the world. Superboring can go wear his underwear outside his pants and leave us all alone.

"Batman is just a fantasy of what we would do if we we're rich"

I could say Superman is a fantasy of what we would be if we had superpowers, and it would be just as valid.

Well you just proved yourself wrong now didn't you? Or are you suggesting that Superman is a tyrannical super-being that is enslaving the world looking at women naked through their clothes?

 

[deadish]

Superman has super powers to save the day.
Batman has his fists and some gadgets he made himself to help him out.

Superman had everything given to him.
Batman gave everything to himself.

Batman wins for being able to do shit himself.

"Batman gave everything to himself"
"Batman wins for being able to do shit himself"
...do i really need to explain the idiocy of these statements?
batmans... well everything is inherited.
his money, his company, and his tools are all provided for him.
and unlike several other billionaire superheroes hes never had the arc where he was dirt poor, tony drank himself destitute, ollie lost his millions, and herc gambled it away(granted being a god it really didn't matter).

Well, it can be argued that batman's superpower (a part from begin crazy smart) is that he is filthy rich. But just being rich doesn't make you are superhero.

All his skills, all earned the hard way.

Why does he have to be poor? I don't see how having good financial management skill is bad.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

Well, all heroes have weaknesses. Play your cards right, don't see why they can't be beat even if you are not super powered.

In the world of sci-fi ... anything is possible.

It all happenes on one site with Prometheus pulling out one tool after another to counter specific heroes... Who basically start acting like drooling idiots where some of them forget that the one power he blocked is not their only one.

This scene goes over "scifi and anything is possible". It is not tactics. It is the writer depicting all heroes as morons.

It is out of character for both, Prometheus and all the heroes.

then again the only good part of cry for justice was when green arrow killed Prometheus, aka the end of cry for justice.

 

[deadish]

Well, all heroes have weaknesses. Play your cards right, don't see why they can't be beat even if you are not super powered.

In the world of sci-fi ... anything is possible.

It all happenes on one site with Prometheus pulling out one tool after another to counter specific heroes... Who basically start acting like drooling idiots where some of them forget that the one power he blocked is not their only one.

This scene goes over "scifi and anything is possible". It is not tactics. It is the writer depicting all heroes as morons.

It is out of character for both, Prometheus and all the heroes.

This then is indeed a case of lazy and bad writing.

But it doesn't mean it can't be done well. It's just a lot harder than being lazy.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

Superman has super powers to save the day.
Batman has his fists and some gadgets he made himself to help him out.

Superman had everything given to him.
Batman gave everything to himself.

Batman wins for being able to do shit himself.

"Batman gave everything to himself"
"Batman wins for being able to do shit himself"
...do i really need to explain the idiocy of these statements?
batmans... well everything is inherited.
his money, his company, and his tools are all provided for him.
and unlike several other billionaire superheroes hes never had the arc where he was dirt poor, tony drank himself destitute, ollie lost his millions, and herc gambled it away(granted being a god it really didn't matter).

Well, it can be argued that batman's superpower (a part from begin crazy smart) is that he is filthy rich. But just being rich doesn't make you are superhero.

All his skills, all earned the hard way.

Why does he have to be poor? I don't see how having good financial management skill is bad.

its called "being brought low" the story arc is to show what i character will do when pushed to their breaking point, the closest batman's ever had was "knightfall" and even then it just ended up with batman taking a leave for recovery, richard becoming batman, and bane having a new token to wave around.

 

[deadish]

its called "being brought low" the story arc is to show what i character will do when pushed to their breaking point, the closest batman's ever had was "knightfall" and even then it just ended up with batman taking a leave for recovery, richard becoming batman, and bane having a new token to wave around.

Well, from the looks of it, Batman's writers decide not to take that route with him.

This being DC, maybe they decide to concentrate more on his "detective stories" than run a character focused arc. /shrug

 

[Joseph Alexander]

Superman has super powers to save the day.
Batman has his fists and some gadgets he made himself to help him out.

Superman had everything given to him.
Batman gave everything to himself.

Batman wins for being able to do shit himself.

"Batman gave everything to himself"
"Batman wins for being able to do shit himself"
...do i really need to explain the idiocy of these statements?
batmans... well everything is inherited.
his money, his company, and his tools are all provided for him.
and unlike several other billionaire superheroes hes never had the arc where he was dirt poor, tony drank himself destitute, ollie lost his millions, and herc gambled it away(granted being a god it really didn't matter).

Well, it can be argued that batman's superpower (a part from begin crazy smart) is that he is filthy rich. But just being rich doesn't make you are superhero.

All his skills, all earned the hard way.

Why does he have to be poor? I don't see how having good financial management skill is bad.

except heres the thing more often then not bruce isn't even involved with his company to do ANYTHING, he treats it less like a corporate empire and more like an infinite armory with a mute R&D that obeys his every command.
he wants something wayne ind. gets it for him, he never even considers its use as a tool... just as a place to get them

which is in dire contrast to several other comic companies, as much an asshole stark is currently he still USES his company(when he has it) to do greater good... or at least what he THINKS is the greater good(fuck tony, civil war-seige is all on his head).

 

[Joseph Alexander]

its called "being brought low" the story arc is to show what i character will do when pushed to their breaking point, the closest batman's ever had was "knightfall" and even then it just ended up with batman taking a leave for recovery, richard becoming batman, and bane having a new token to wave around.

Well, from the looks of it, Batman's writers decide not to take that route with him.

This being DC, maybe they decide to concentrate more on his "detective stories" than run a character focused arc. /shrug

no, they focus on showing him beating up thugs and fucking catwoman.
hes a victim of "the spider-man effect" more or less hes never allowed to move from his most popular state for fear of them losing even more sales.
as with spider-man hes never allowed to move from angsty young adult with father figure abandonment issues and a severe lack of self-esteem.

 

[deadish]

except heres the thing more often then not bruce isn't even involved with his company to do ANYTHING, he treats it less like a corporate empire and more like an infinite armory with a mute R&D that obeys his every command.
he wants something wayne ind. gets it for him, he never even considers its use as a tool... just as a place to get them

which is in dire contrast to several other comic companies, as much an asshole stark is currently he still USES his company(when he has it) to do greater good... or at least what he THINKS is the greater good(fuck tony, civil war-seige is all on his head).

Well, if you own a company, you can hire executives to run the place for you. The most you got to do is keep an eye on those you hire to make sure they are doing their job right.

no, they foucus on showing him beating up thugs and fucking catwoman.
hes a victim of "the spider-man effect" more or less hes never allowed to move from his most popular state for fear of them losing even more sales.

Don't know about the politics of this stuff.

But I always felt Marvel to be the one more likely to focus on the personal lives of their heroes than DC, hence Tony Stark.

 

[Goofguy]

I've never been enough of a comic book fan to truly appreciate the nuances and differences of these two characters. However, I'm really drawn to Bruce Wayne essentially being just a 'normal' guy who takes up the mantle of the bat to serve up justice to Gotham. Sure, I use the term 'normal' loosely seeing as how he's a billionaire playboy who is in peak physical shape and mental acuity. That being said, it's pretty ballsy to make it your life's work to rid the streets of crime especially when you subscribe to a "no killing" policy and you're pitted against some pretty crappy odds on a frequent basis.

Batman all the way.