Poll: The best at medieval fantasy lore

[The Madman]

I like Obsidian myself, whenever they're given a fantasy setting to work with whether that be Forgotten Realms or Star Wars, they tend to always give what might otherwise be a bland and predictable setting a fun twist of their own.

Mask of the Betrayer is an ideal example of their work. They took a popular but nevertheless rather stagnant setting (Forgotten Realms) and made it their own by ignoring all the hallmark locations (Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Baldur's Gate, Underdark, Icewind Dale, etc.) or setting cliche to instead take a unique glimpse at one of the least visited locations and expose one of the most easily overlooked but incredibly interesting facets of the setting to light. There were no redemption-seeking Drow or drunken Dwarves and I can't think of a single Elf in the entire game, nor did you need to save the world from yet another emerging evil. It was just a memorable little glimpse at a part of the setting I don't think anyone else has really taken the time to explore.

Other than them... hmm...

CD Projekt RED

It might be considered 'unfair' since the setting is based on a series of existing novels but the setting for the Witcher games is pretty much the only fantasy setting lately which has left me going "I want to learn more about this place and its people!". The only game with a fantasy setting that truly set itself apart in my mind from the dozens of others out there which, while the games themselves might be entertaining, didn't really invoke my imagination.

I did like games like Dragon Age and Morrowind, but while interesting neither of those games really sparked my imagination or curiosity in terms of setting the same way as either of the above examples. As for Warcraft... that's a complex love/hate relationship right there best left for other topics.

 

[Gatx]

I vote Bethesda. I was reading a history book on the Vikings, and the way Bethesda create their lore - well, you could have replaced everything in the Vikings book with Elder Scrolls-created characters and events, and it would still have been as thick, as interesting AND as believable.
Tolkien's elves are superior to humans in practically every way. Bethesda's elves are vile, abhorrent little shits with a superiority complex. Elves are universally admired in Middle-Earth. Elves are abhorrent little shits with a superiority complex on Nirn. Tolkien's elves are mysterious, wise and powerful beings living in grand buildings in picturesque locations. Bethesda's elves are abhorrent little shits with a superiority complex living in abhorrent little cesspools that they assure me are beautiful.

Windhelm is the only place to treat those elves properly. Not those other places that let them run free and frolic. Fucking things. I swear, if there were no elves in the Elder Scrolls, everybody would live happily ever after. Humans may be greedy, clumsy apes who accidentally open dimensional rifts and destroy their world, but elves? Elves do that shit on purpose.

Actually Tolkien also draws a lot of inspiration from Anglo-Saxon lore, things like naming conventions, the importance of stories and songs, and mythical creatures. The Rohirrim are pretty much vikings with horses instead of boats.

Bestheda. But Blizzard goes WAY beyond them, making their OWN universe.

So Blizz is #1 imho, despite Bethesda being better at realizing the standard stuff!

How did Bethesda not make it's own universe? Tamriel is just as realized and original a setting as Azeroth is.

 

[Popeman]

Out of those 3 The elder Scrolls. I will admit the story's in Dragon age are much better if a bit generic. Blizzards "Lore" is well just stupid from what I have seen.

 

[Randvek]

Blizzards "Lore" is well just stupid from what I have seen.

Blizzard's lore tends to be good ideas with terrible writers.

 

[Popeman]

Blizzards "Lore" is well just stupid from what I have seen.

Blizzard's lore tends to be good ideas with terrible writers.

I guess that is true to an extent but Bethesda writers aren't to stellar either. But they seem to do better maybe it just has to do with the types of games they both make.

 

[Smiley Face]

I have to go for Dragon Age because of the ones there that I know of (I only have a slight, slight familiarity with Warcraft and almost none with Diablo), its lore is the most colourful, visible, and entrenched. Yes, Elder Scrolls has a rich backstory of lore, yadda yadda - but they don't DO ANYTHING WITH IT. Skyrim could be almost entirely unchanged by just slicing awaythe lore you find in the many, many books. With Dragon Age, there's creative, interesting stuff going on with the lore, and it is front and center all the time. The religion, the mages, the persecution of the elves, the constantly embattled dwarves, etc. If Bioware handled a Skyrim-esque story, we'd know more about the dragons than 'they were evil, then they were gone, and now they're back', we'd see different and varied opinions on Daedra worship in the holds and ee how that's dealt with, rather than just be told it exists, do a quest involving it, and then have the option to read about it in a book. We'd see rationales, balanced sides, and it would be presented in a way that creates a feeling of depth in the game - The Elder Scrolls doesn't do that, not nearly as much as it should - that's its style though, and it can work, but it means that lore-wise, it doesn't compete.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

none of those

Gamesworkshop- Warhammer

with Bethesda's Elder scrolls III Morrowind being an exception (i just love that province the most)

Games Workshop's Warhammer is an anachronism where Renaissance Era Germans fight against Mutant Vikings and 10th Century Chivalric Knights.

 

[godofallu]

Urg, so very sick of fifth generation Tolkien rip-offs.

I think that's why I liked Final Fantasy XI so much. It was a fantasy MMO that did NOT take place "Totally-not-Middle-Earth-we-promise" land. It had orcs and goblins, and trolls a few expansion packs in, but they were downplayed and not stereotypical, and were only a few of the dozens of kinds of beasts that inhabited the land. And the graphical quality and overall aesthetics were much more appealing to me than the god-awful messes of neon polygons that inhabit World of Warcraft.

I've never played Final Fantasy but I was reading intently until you started talking about how it had orcs and goblins and trolls. That is exactly the problem with medieval fantasy today.

 

[Lilani]

I've never played Final Fantasy but I was reading intently until you started talking about how it had orcs and goblins and trolls. That is exactly the problem with medieval fantasy today.

Oh lordy. As I said, they aren't a major thing. They are a few of of DOZENS of types of beastmen, scattered evenly across a lush and beautiful world. A few of the other beastmen are:

Lamia [http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lamia]

Qiqirn [http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Qiqirn]

Yagudo [http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Yagudo]

Hell, here's the whole page [http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Beastmen] on beastmen so you can get a good look at them, and read about their place in the game. Oh, and I think I should say it's not medieval fantasy. It's not even trying to be that, really. There's one country that's a "kingdom," San d'Oria, but that's really the only one. Windurst is a Federation, Bastok is a Republic, Jeuno is run by Archdukes, Aht Urghan is run by an Emperor. It is not on Earth, not entirely populated by humans, and not based on any sort of earth lore like Arthurian legends. One of the races is humans, called humes, but apart from them and the names of those few beastmen those are really the only grounding in typical medieval fantasy that it has. Well and I guess Elves too, but they aren't the typical immortal/dignicied/all wise elves you get everywhere else. They're arrogant and xenophobic, and get into a lot more petty squabbles than they like to admit. Remember, this is a Final Fantasy here. They aren't going to just stick you in Tolkein's backyard and then call it quits.

The thing that impressed me the most about FFXI, though, was the characters and the stories. They were so in-depth and beautiful, not just from the great storylines but also the great characters that come out and character development that occurs.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I chose flare! Sorry, I just wanted to chuck that in there. My serious answer is Warhammer. To this day, I still have no idea if it's a satire like Warhammer 40K.

Warhammer is closer to Monty Python and the Holy Grail than Tolkien. It is pure fantasy parody.

40K started off as a parody, before turning grimdark, then going so far into the grimdark that it recursively became parody again.

 

[ACman]

Which of the "big B" developers would you say conveys the best world of giant monsters, castles, creepy caves, spawns and final bosses the best? And why?

The Witcher.

Or the Forgotten Realms as in Baldur's Gate.

This probably isn't fair because they were developed independently from video games and video games suck at universe creation.

TES has great lore but no people that I want to talk to.

Dragon Age has shit lore (I will rant about this if provoked.)

Warcraft is probably best but I know so little about it that I can't really comment.

 

[blaize2010]

[snip]

And you seriously think any of that makes TES's setting any less generic?

"No, look! Our bow-using, forest-dwelling, pointy-eared elves are cannibals!"
"No, look! Our dwarves are sometimes referred to as "Dwemar" and they're all dead!"
"No, look! Our zombies wear viking hats!"

If it looks like a Tolkien rip-off, sounds like a Tolkien rip-off and smells like a Tolkien rip-off...

If it wasn't yet another middle-earth imitation, there wouldn't be a single damn elf in sight, cannibal or otherwise.

I'd like to see something completely different, not the same old setting in a different hat.

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Jesus, lay off Zhukov people. (Wait, Zhukov is a real word? No spellcheck.) Just because someone hasn't committed time to TES Lore does not make his points any less valid. Telling him he can't talk because he doesn't know what he's talking about strikes me as incredibly arrogant and patronizing.

Let him have his opinion, and stop bitching when yours doesn't match his.

 

[Element Zero]

Though I'm not a huge fan of Blizzards games of late, they have a scary amount of history and lore written about them. Maybe it comes from all the money they have to pay legions of writers, I dunno...

 

[ImperialSunlight]

From Software beats all those three into the ground and makes a giant "THEY DIED"-death screen appear above them when it comes to making stuff feel medieval.

THIS.

Not only that but in Dark Souls, they took from a lot of mythology that isn't often used in medieval-style fantasy-Greek and Norse, mostly. Throw in the complex relations between the gods, the tragic fate of the daughters of Izalith, the demons, stuff about the Furtive Pygmy, everlasting dragons, not-so-everlasting dragons, the relationship between the gods and humans, and "Dark", whatever that is and you get a pretty awesome backstory.

 

[Zhukov]

[TES, pointy ears, waaaah, etc...]

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

Oh look, it's the old "you're just hating on it because you think it makes you cool" argument. Gee, never had that one thrown at me before.

I could just as readily say you're defending it out of a desire to belong and conform. It would be just as presumptuous, just as stupid and (presumably) just as wrong.

And no, taking a worn out concept and sticking a new hat on it is not original nor particularly clever. Hey, they're orcs but they have gunpowder and use matchlock weapons. There's mages and wizard, right, but they shave their heads instead of wearing pointy hats! Ohh ohh, and elves with wings! Wow, look at me go. Clearly I'm gonna be the next big thing in derivative fantasy.

Oh, and while I'm here, if the Dwemer aren't dwarves why do people in the game keep referring to them as such? And why are all their items called "Dwarven Sword" and "Dwarven Boots" and so on? If they aren't even short, why would they be called dwarves since "dwarf" literally means an abnormally short person?

 

[DustyDrB]

[TES, pointy ears, waaaah, etc...]

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

Oh look, it's the old "you're just hating on it because you think it makes you cool" argument. Gee, never had that one thrown at me before.

I could just as readily say you're defending it out of a desire to belong and conform. It would be just as presumptuous, just as stupid and (presumably) just as wrong.

And no, taking a worn out concept and sticking a new hat on it is not original nor particularly clever. Hey, they're orcs but they have gunpowder and use matchlock weapons. There's mages and wizard, right, but they shave their heads instead of wearing pointy hats! Ohh ohh, and elves with wings! Wow, look at me go. Clearly I'm gonna be the next big thing in derivative fantasy.

Oh, and while I'm here, if the Dwemer aren't dwarves why do people in the game keep referring to them as such? And why are all their items called "Dwarven Sword" and "Dwarven Boots" and so on? If they aren't even short, why would they be called dwarves since "dwarf" literally means an abnormally short person?

I read on a the Elder Scrolls wiki that they were called Dwarves because they were neighbored by giants. Or something like that.

But I get your point overall. Fantasy seems to have long lost the will to be fantastical. The way people defend the same old same old being used over and over, I think they've forgotten the feeling of being presented with something totally new. That was a big success of the first Mass Effect, where I was basically like, "Turians? You guys look badass! So what are you all about? Really?? Oh, so we're kind of enemies, then".

You hear the name "Dwarf" or see an elf, and you don't feel get those feelings. Instead, you probably decide you know them well enough already.

 

[Onoto]

Bioware, but for Neverwinter Nights.

 

[ACman]

Which of the "big B" developers would you say conveys the best world of giant monsters, castles, creepy caves, spawns and final bosses the best? And why?

Dragon Age has shit lore (I will rant about this if provoked.)

I'd like to hear your take, if you've got the time.

I've always disliked stories where the protagonist "is the only one to save the world/universe/mankind" or "the chosen one". It's not a relatable motivation.

Also why are the darkspawn attacking? "Because it's what they do" is a lazy answer.

Thaedas feels tiny (and white!). It's like the blight is happening in France and in DA2 you escape to Switzerland. Are they attacking other countries on this world? Do all the countries on this world have the same attitude to magic? Are some of them Asian? Where are the black guys?

Monotheism is boring. If you're going to have gods have an angry capricious pantheon not a single creator. It's always fun to have several gods constantly fighting and fucking mortals and each other. It can provide a slightly better motivation for your "bad guys that are attacking just because".

 

[Thaliur]

How did Bethesda not make it's own universe? Tamriel is just as realized and original a setting as Azeroth is.

Hey, there's no need to insult Tamriel, OK?