Poll: The Last of Us Academic Poll (SPOILERS)

[Rack]

I only killed 2 people in the entire facility, I tried to smoke bomb my way through to get to Ellie and tried to subdue the doctor with the scalpel. I wish I could have been more successful than that.

 

[Mikejames]

Those people weren't risking shit. Marlene is the only person on the Firefly side of things that gave a single fuck about Ellie as a person and she gave up. Not because there was a good chance to end the plague but because "The tests just keep getting harder and harder, don't they? I'm so tired. I'm exhausted and I just want this to end... so be it." This was no great push for the cure. This was the actions of the helpless looking to do something, anything, to try and exert some control over the situation. And what if they had succeeded? The cure would have been used as a recruitment tool for the Firefly movement and as a weapon against the government.

I believe Ellie probably would have said yes if they had asked her. I think she might have said yes if they actually explained the low chance of creating a cure. However once they started acting like bandits, just taking whatever they wanted, they got treated like bandits.

Not risking anything? I'm pretty sure more than half of the Fireflies had been killed by the time we actually found any. Now the cure obviously wouldn't be an overnight thing, but it's a first step. A foothold for communities to not lose more people like we lost Tess and Sam.

I do agree that it was a wrong not to talk to her beforehand, even if they wouldn't have accepted a refusal she deserved explanation, but it was still a sentiment of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Meanwhile, Joel lies to a kid to maintain this perception of a world without hope, just so she can wander the wasteland indefinitely with him. It's an engaging story, and fitting to Joel's character, but he was no hero.

 

[Sarge034]

Not risking anything? I'm pretty sure more than half of the Fireflies had been killed by the time we actually found any. Now the cure obviously wouldn't be an overnight thing, but it's a first step. A foothold for communities to not lose more people like we lost Tess and Sam.

No they are not risking anything by killing Ellie. The Fireflies who died on the trip did so to protect Marlene. That could have happened at a quarantine zone, on the road, or at their base of operations. Killing Ellie was simply a case of welp, let's do something. There was no attempt to do live studies, or blood cultures, or anything. Just pop that ***** open and see what we see mentality.

I do agree that it was a wrong not to talk to her beforehand, even if they wouldn't have accepted a refusal she deserved explanation, but it was still a sentiment of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. Meanwhile, Joel lies to a kid to maintain this perception of a world without hope, just so she can wander the wasteland indefinitely with him. It's an engaging story, and fitting to Joel's character, but he was no hero.

The needs of the many... This is where the philosophical soul searching come into play. In some situations I would agree, but too much was not quite right for me to agree to that mentality in this case. They didn't talk to Joel/Ellie beforehand, there was next to no chance that they would be successful, and they would utilize the cure as a weapon.

Now, I don't think Joel lies to instill the perception of a world without hope. The lie was to keep her from running back into the arms of people who wanted to kill her, nullify the guilt and anger she would feel, and to keep her with him. I do believe they go live with Joel's brother so they are not wandering the wasteland indefinitely. I do think it fits Joel's character, but for different reasons than you seem to.

 

[Carl The Manicorn]

I shot the one guy with the knife down, but everyone else I left alone. Why kill an innocent for no reason? Sure, sometimes I can get trigger happy, but that game was an exception.

 

[Mikejames]

No they are not risking anything by killing Ellie. The Fireflies who died on the trip did so to protect Marlene. That could have happened at a quarantine zone, on the road, or at their base of operations. Killing Ellie was simply a case of welp, let's do something. There was no attempt to do live studies, or blood cultures, or anything. Just pop that ***** open and see what we see mentality.

I was talking about their mission in general, being the only people who hadn't given up on finding a cure.

"After years of wandering in circles we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back in control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain."

The needs of the many... This is where the philosophical soul searching come into play. In some situations I would agree, but too much was not quite right for me to agree to that mentality in this case. They didn't talk to Joel/Ellie beforehand, there was next to no chance that they would be successful, and they would utilize the cure as a weapon.

Now, I don't think Joel lies to instill the perception of a world without hope. The lie was to keep her from running back into the arms of people who wanted to kill her, nullify the guilt and anger she would feel, and to keep her with him. I do believe they go live with Joel's brother so they are not wandering the wasteland indefinitely. I do think it fits Joel's character, but for different reasons than you seem to.

They didn't have to save Joel you know. Marlene had him resuscitated and told him what was going on right before he goes out of his way to kill her. And their messages are about hitting a brand new milestone with Ellie, not about taking a stab in the dark.

Joel made it clear that he was a survivalist. He robbed and murdered innocents long before he met Ellie. Now he has someone he cares about, but ultimately, it wasn't about what she would have wanted. It was about what Joel needed.

 

[Sarge034]

I was talking about their mission in general, being the only people who hadn't given up on finding a cure.

"After years of wandering in circles we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back in control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain."

That's rather presumptuous seeing as we don't actually get any of the government's story in this matter. The Fireflies say the government has stopped and the bandits say they won't shoot me if I just come out with my hands up... Never trust a biased source.

Also, nice of you to disregard the part of the quote that proves my argument.

"April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of it's own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain." - Surgeon's Recorder

They don't have a single idea as to why she's immune and when her blood is taken from her body the fungus starts to grow. So what would happen if they took her brain from her body I wonder... This is just throwing science at a wall and seeing if anything sticks.

They didn't have to save Joel you know. Marlene had him resuscitated and told him what was going on right before he goes out of his way to kill her. And their messages are about hitting a brand new milestone with Ellie, not about taking a stab in the dark.

Yes, Marlene is the weak link in the Fireflies' plan. She cared for Ellie (a little) and she respected Joel enough to tell him what was going on to his face. Everyone else didn't give a fuck about Ellie and wanted to kill Joel. And went out of his way? If I remember correctly she blocks his path and dies like the rest.

Joel made it clear that he was a survivalist. He robbed and murdered innocents long before he met Ellie. Now he has someone he cares about, but ultimately, it wasn't about what she would have wanted. It was about what Joel needed.

Irrelevant to my point.

 

[Mikejames]

That's rather presumptuous seeing as we don't actually get any of the government's story in this matter. The Fireflies say the government has stopped and the bandits say they won't shoot me if I just come out with my hands up... Never trust a biased source.

I assumed that the implication was that after 20 years the government had been reduced nothing but oppressive martial law over a few cities like Boston, but there's nothing really proving or disproving that there isn't any other group out there still trying.

*text*
They don't have a single idea as to why she's immune and when her blood is taken from her body the fungus starts to grow. So what would happen if they took her brain from her body I wonder... This is just throwing science at a wall and seeing if anything sticks.

There's no guarantees in medicine, but they make it out to be the best chance they'll ever have, to the point where the surgeon is willing to stand up to your shotgun with a fricking scalpel for it.

Yes, Marlene is the weak link in the Fireflies' plan. She cared for Ellie (a little) and she respected Joel enough to tell him what was going on to his face. Everyone else didn't give a fuck about Ellie and wanted to kill Joel.

Heh, can't imagine why they would have wanted to kill Joel.
Now Marlene cared for Ellie longer than Joel ever did, but again, for the group it boiled down to sacrificing one life for the rest of humanity.

And went out of his way? If I remember correctly she blocks his path and dies like the rest.

She stood in his path arms raised, he shot her in the gut. She pleaded to be let go, he shot her in the head.

 

[19]

I only shot the guy with the scalpel.

 

[00slash00]

Frankly I was bothered that I had to kill any. I expected there to be a non-violent approach (I don't know why, Joel has been a psychotic douche the whole game, no reason for him to stop now). When I had to kill the doctor I remember thinking, "That seemed unnecessary." I certainly didn't kill any of the other doctors

 

[Zenn3k]

Yes, but only because I thought I had to to get the "Press X" to pop up on Ellie?I originally shot 2 and left 1, but the option to continue didn't pop up for me, so I shot the last one and it did.

I thought it was required.

 

[pspman45]

the first time I played through it, I only killed the one guy, watching the other two to see if they tried anything.
my second time though, I killed the first guy, then I killed the guy who yells at you by smashing his face into the counter, leaving the third one crying

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Nope, just the one guy with the scalpel blocking my way.

First time playing I didn't know I could actually kill him with said scalpel, so I just shot him with El Diablo.

I didn't want to kill any of the doctors, but the game didn't let me just shoot the one blocking my way in the knee, so I had to kill him.

I tried just walking past him at first, but that didn't work, so I used the interaction button.

And, well. I definitely "interacted" with him!

Shame about that, though what is this about killing all the doctors? I know that part of the game use to be different,(just a cutscene), and Joel did kill them all.
However, I don't know why you would do it yourself, unless you thought they were going to do something, I guess.

 

[Blazing Steel]

Joel got a triple kill that day, walked in a hosed the crap out of the room shredding the doctors. These people were happy to kill a little girl without her consent; that in my eyes forfeited any reason for me to let them live. You could then ask why kill them? Sure that might not have a reason for Joel not to shoot at them, but apart from Doctor Ballsy McScalpel the other two weren't threatening.

Joel couldn't leave any witnesses, Dr Ballsy sealed their fate.

As a side point on the morality of it, I empathized with Joel whereas I couldn't the doctors. Joel has been doing anything he can for 20 years to live watching as everything he even vaguely cares about die; whereas theses doctor are safely guarded by armed men and for reasons I can't determine (or at least no good ones) they were happy to kill a innocent girl. Doctors take oaths for a reason, sure there has been an apocalypse but they're the ones who chose to be judged by different standards.

Now despite saying all this I know it's slightly hypocritical about how I judge the doctors compare to Joel the mass murderer, but I honestly see the doctors as at least on par with Joel morality wise.

 

[Saidan]

You are pretty much forced to kill the first one, then I did shoot the one in the wall, but nothing happened (the shot must have glitched or something), so I just took Ellie and run.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Nope, just the one guy. It's usually (depending on the type of game) my gaming policy not to deliberately kill anyone not trying to kill me, unless the games forces me to. So no, I let the others live.

 

[COMaestro]

I just wanted to get Ellie as quickly as I could, so I actually made a crazy mad dash through the hallway before the operating room without killing anybody. When I saw the doctors in the room, I almost laughed at the head surgeon threatening Joel with a scalpel, as if he hadn't had so much worse thrown at him. I just wanted to knock him away, so I pressed X, but it did a lot more than knock him away. At that point, I just grabbed Ellie and ran.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

On a side note. I agreed with most of Joel's actions through the game, but the only reason I agree with the decision to get Ellie out of there is because she didn't have an active say in it. If they had just sat Joel and Ellie down and explained what they wanted to do I would not be able to support Joel, unless of course Ellie said no.

Ellie would have said yes. I got the impression she already knew but didn't tell Joel. That's why she was so quiet before the Giraffe part, when Joel was talking about teaching her guitar. That's why Ellie gave her "This can't all be for nothing" speech. And Joel knew she would say yes. That's why when Marlene called him out it, all he could do was look down. And that's why he lied to Ellie at the end.

Yeah, but after the Giraffes she says that Joel should teach her to swim after all this, so I don't think she did know she was going to be killed for the cure.
She probably still suspects that something is up with Joel's story, even though she accepted his lie.

Though, she probably would have said yes. That's what I feared. That she had been asked, said yes, and would wake up knowing what Joel did.


Until Marlene said "it's what she would have wanted." Then I knew they never asked her. ;p

Which puts me on Joel's side in the end. Ps and Qs people. Never forget them.

 

[Sarge034]

She stood in his path arms raised, he shot her in the gut. She pleaded to be let go, he shot her in the head.

Actually, she stood in your path with a gun and then lowered it so she could take a hold of Ellie. As for finishing her off... Never leave a combat capable enemy on the battlefield and never let a fanatical enemy live. It never works out well. If he had let her live she would have healed up and spent the rest of her waking days searching for them. This would put the entire community at the power station at risk. It was just safer that way.

It looks like everything else just comes down to personality types, personal morals, and beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

No need for shooting them. The first got killed by his own scalpel and the others suffered death from a bit harder contact with the walls.

Actually, she stood in your path with a gun and then lowered it so she could take a hold of Ellie. As for finishing her off... Never leave a combat capable enemy on the battlefield and never let a fanatical enemy live. It never works out well. If he had let her live she would have healed up and spent the rest of her waking days searching for them. This would put the entire community at the power station at risk. It was just safer that way.

It looks like everything else just comes down to personality types, personal morals, and beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, i remember Joel said something like "You would just come after her" before executing Marlene. Looks like he thougt of the same risk if he would let her live.