Poll: The Latest AC controversy

[TitanAura]

Racism and discrimination have been ingrained into the very fabric of society for thousands of years and it still pervades to this day (things are "better" but it does not mean they are "fixed"). I don't think simply putting good and evil people on both sides of the war will make it okay to use one group or another as cannon fodder for the protagonist. Just so long as there aren't any average shmoes who are mustache-twirling evil (aside from the main villain because that's how they are in these games) simply because they are working for the bad guy. People are more complex than that. One of the mechanics I've always liked is that after murdering several enemies in a row sometimes the remaining combatants will just give up and run away even though they are honor-bound to fight to the death. It shows that their allegiance is to their paycheck, not the banner under which they fight.

Ezio was a wonderful protagonist because he wasn't necessarily a "good guy". He had noble intentions but the methods by which he achieved his goals weren't always morally sound. "Everything is permitted," after all. The guy is, in fact, a mass murderer. Certainly he had a very personal reason for killing the people he did (sweet sweet vengeance) and he made a concerted effort not to kill innocents (...minstrels don't count). However, some Templars he murdered did actually have noble traits and died continuing to believe that they were doing the right thing (and in some instances Ezio even AGREES with them), but he kills them anyways because they happened to be on the wrong side of the conflict.

 

[hazabaza1]

Between Tomb Raider, Mass Effect and this, I really don't care anymore. I got behind the Mass Effect movement, but I am just so sick of controversy in every single game. "Oh this game is xenophobic." "Oh, this game is racist." "Oh this game is sexist" I JUST WANT TO PLAY MY FREAKING VIDEO GAME! God, I am just sick of all the fucking drama.

Thank you.
I've felt this way since "Retake Mass Effect omg guize" but couldn't think of how to voice my opinion.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Between Tomb Raider, Mass Effect and this, I really don't care anymore. I got behind the Mass Effect movement, but I am just so sick of controversy in every single game. "Oh this game is xenophobic." "Oh, this game is racist." "Oh this game is sexist" I JUST WANT TO PLAY MY FREAKING VIDEO GAME! God, I am just sick of all the fucking drama.

You've got a point here.

Nearly every single big title has some "no no" that ends up getting a huge reaction like this.

Britain lost the Revolutionary war. Of course they're gonna be made the bad guys. Be thankful it's only pandering to the American crowd instead of going full on Dr. Evil on the Brits.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

So the implication here is that the revolutionary war is not black and white. not nearly so as the civil war was that i mentioned in an earlier post. I mentioned that we were clearly the bad guys in spite of what confederate apologists think.

The same goes with nazi germany I imagine the american/british/russian hail marys that ensue with every ww2 depiction might indeed get old but itd be nigh impossible to argue that it happened any other way.

So i myself have little education on the revolutionary war aside from this otherwise black and white understanding.

So how and in what ways would you say that the revolutionary war was in fact grey? I would argue that if it wasnt so grey than the rise trailer is justified.

how can in any light the brits possibly be the good guys and the americans bad? or the morality of the whole thing be grey and unclear?

again totally real question. looking forward to some sharp responses.

American here. It's a classic case of "History is written by the victors". In terms of how revolutions are started, The American Revolution is actually pretty tame. We just hated getting taxed. The American people at this time (still considered British citizens), were being very highly taxed and felt that there was very limited representation. We were second class citizens paying taxes to a king that was on the other side of the ocean, and most felt like they had no say. Instead of the Brits pandering to us, they just took a no shit policy and raised taxes on the America's favorite import. Tea (Boston Tea Party).

When you look at it... that's not exactly a strong reason to start a humongous civil war. There was no mass genocide. No mass executions. Just a failure for each side to communicate. Hell, the worst case of violence was British troops killing 13 innocent people. In the scheme of things, that's not that bad.

It was much more a philosophical war based on principals than it was a war based on good triumphing over evil. The only reason it should be remembered today was because it's a classic case of an underdog coming up out of nowhere. You can see why the Brits fucking hate it, because it seems like we make a big deal out of nothing. A petty civil war where one side overvalues it's victory.

 

[La Kias]

So the implication here is that the revolutionary war is not black and white. not nearly so as the civil war was that i mentioned in an earlier post. I mentioned that we were clearly the bad guys in spite of what confederate apologists think.

The same goes with nazi germany I imagine the american/british/russian hail marys that ensue with every ww2 depiction might indeed get old but itd be nigh impossible to argue that it happened any other way.

So i myself have little education on the revolutionary war aside from this otherwise black and white understanding.

So how and in what ways would you say that the revolutionary war was in fact grey? I would argue that if it wasnt so grey than the rise trailer is justified.

how can in any light the brits possibly be the good guys and the americans bad? or the morality of the whole thing be grey and unclear?

again totally real question. looking forward to some sharp responses.

American here. It's a classic case of "History is written by the victors". In terms of how revolutions are started, The American Revolution is actually pretty tame. We just hated getting taxed. The American people at this time (still considered British citizens), were being very highly taxed and felt that there was very limited representation. We were second class citizens paying taxes to a king that was on the other side of the ocean, and most felt like they had no say. Instead of the Brits pandering to us, they just took a no shit policy and raised taxes on the America's favorite import. Tea (Boston Tea Party).

When you look at it... that's not exactly a strong reason to start a humongous civil war. There was no mass genocide. No mass executions. Just a failure for each side to communicate. Hell, the worst case of violence was British troops killing 13 innocent people. In the scheme of things, that's not that bad.

It was much more a philosophical war based on principals than it was a war based on good triumphing over evil. The only reason it should be remembered today was because it's a classic case of an underdog coming up out of nowhere. You can see why the Brits fucking hate it, because it seems like we make a big deal out of nothing. A petty civil war where one side overvalues it's victory.

overvalues then sticks a holiday on it to mark the end of an era when hundreds of people were slaughtered. I cannot think of anywhere other than America doing this, I know there probably is somewhere, but never heard of it. The only thing close elsewhere is remembrance day, which is a day of respect rather than "lets get fireworks and blow shit up". Just me that thinks its weird?

As for gamewise, yeah, the trailers have been a bit too "America fuck yeah!" but it won't stop me buying the game, nor will it hinder my enjoyment so long as it remains true to its story and focuses on the templar and assassin's manipulating rather than saying: this side good, this side bad

 

[Karelwolfpup]

LOL just to make a statement that folk may latch on to so some sense can prevail. Some of you are arguing over political stances and "who's the bigger tyrannical asshat" over a videogame featuring an Indian assassin fighting mysterious figures directing both sides of a conflict for an equally mysterious and improbable maguffin?
Kinda like how people got bent out of shape over the Hitman trailer? Y'know, the Hitman trailer about a genetically designed and cloned killing machine, facing assassin nuns?
Just... y'know...

Anyhoo. Personally, I think there's plenty of opportunity for this to become a jingoistic mess. Especially if the player's choices and the game's narrative get railroaded into a particular viewpoint. I doubt that'll happen as badly as some seem to fear. There's a lot of scope and a lot of leeway considering the world that's been built up. This is, after all, interactive alternate history.
If they could maybe show more than just Brits and proto Americans, y'know, have the French, Dutch and maybe the German mercenaries (I wanna say the Burgundians or Hanoverians, could be wrong on that though) and even the native American perspective on the whole thing. That would be nice.

 

[Shock and Awe]

They are probably going to show the Revolutionaries in a very positive light and the British in a negative one, thats how most of these things go, but I doubt its going to be worse then other media. Though it'd be nice to see them release another trailer in the same theme and formula except with Loyalists and such. That'd be pretty interesting.

 

[Lugbzurg]

Of course they will vilify the British. To be honest, it annoys me how the Americans describe British rule as something that was 'Slavery and tyranny'. I certainly expect an American developer to be making an American-centric game. Hell, they'll probably have the rebels as saints while the Redcoats burn children in churches, etc.

Hah. That was a pretty good joke. You almost got me to believe that you didn't know that Ubisoft is primarily a French company [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft] and that Assassin's Creed is developed primarily by French-Canadians. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Montreal]

OT: Another controversy? Already? Aren't we still getting over the Tomb Raider thing? Have we finally gotten over Hitman: Absolution? What about Diablo III and Mass Effect 3? Let's see, what other controversies have there been lately... how about the XCOM: Enemy Unknown limitation of how many soldiers the player gets? Oh, the new Devil May Cry that nobody can get over, and Metal Gear Rising being a completely different direction than Metal Gear Solid. How about Dead Space 3 and how EA wants to "broaden the target audience" or something? Or the "controversies" that surrounded Katawa Shoujo and Catherine? Or the earlier Dragon Age 2? Or the "controversy" that got kicked up by CD Projekt Red for making "hypocritical" statements because of what they did with sexuality in The Witcher? Or the (non-strictly-gaming) controversy whirled up by the Destructoid intern's comments to Felicia Day? Or the controversy over Tera that everyone has apparently forgotten now?

In case my point is getting muddled up with that block of text...
[HEADING=2]Why does everything need to be a controversy these days?[/HEADING]

Anybody else remember the days when you could just sit down and play a game and have fun, without worrying about being called sexist because you didn't violently oppose the game's portrayal of a female character? Did people call Candy Kong "sexist"?

Because I'll bet that they would if that had been released today instead of thirteen years ago.

Regardless, I reserve any judgement because I haven't played the game and trailers practically never actually show off what the game is going to be like anymore.

Hey, don't forget about Lollipop Chainsaw! According to a lot of people who have never even played the game, it's supposed to be an accurate portrayal of videogame culture and all future videogame developers will wow and marvel at its majesty and model all their games after it. No, seriously, I'm not making this stuff up. I don't know why people are saying all that about this one of all games.

And let's all not forget the completely out-of-context hack and slash game, Dante's Inferno, and how an angry mob was actually hired to protest the game, in order to boost advertizement, via controversy.

Then, there's Shadow the Hedgehog, the game where people started flailing and flailing about over guns and the option of being evil. AKA: Nothing new. Things that were already in the Sonic series to begin with! Guns? They're in Sonic 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Heroes, among others. Those are the most prominent. Language? While, not as much, I don't hear anyone complaining about the language in Sonic Adventure 2's song lyrics or some of the dialogue in Sonic Riders. It gets especially bad with Wave the Swallow. Oh, and being evil? Well, I heard no complaints about Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Next-Gen, Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode Metal, or any of the Sonic-related racing games out there. So, why now?

And don't forget the ignorant controversies surrounding Mass Effect, Resident Evil 5, Kane & Lynch 2, Mario Party 3, Doom and this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUQYrdgIJuI

 

[shrekfan246]

Hey, don't forget about Lollipop Chainsaw! According to a lot of people who have never even played the game, it's supposed to be an accurate portrayal of videogame culture and all future videogame developers will wow and marvel at its majesty and model all their games after it. No, seriously, I'm not making this stuff up. I don't know what people are saying that about this one of all games.

And let's all not forget the completely out-of-context hack and slash game, Dante's Inferno, and how an angry mob was actually hired to protest the game, in order to boost advertizement, via controversy.

Then, there's Shadow the Hedgehog, the game where people started flailing and flailing about over guns and the option of being evil. AKA: Nothing new. Things that were already in the Sonic series to begin with! Guns? They're in Sonic 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Heroes, among others. Those are the most prominent. Language? While, not as much, I don't hear anyone complaining about the language in Sonic Adventure 2's song lyrics or some of the dialogue in Sonic Riders. It gets especially bad with Wave the Swallow.

Also, let's not forget the ignorant controversies surrounding Mass Effect, Resident Evil 5, Kane & Lynch 2, Mario Party 3, Doom and this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUQYrdgIJuI

Oh yeah, I did forget that Lollipop Chainsaw generated some controversy. Never knew about the Portal 2 thing, but that reminds me of how gamers threw a fit and review-bombed it because of the optional hats that were being sold for multi-play or something.

And, yeah, Resident Evil being racist slipped my mind, but as for Mass Effect, I was trying to confine my point to the last year or so. ... which really just makes me even more sad, in retrospect.

 

[Darren716]

Even if the game is bias I won't be offended seeing as I'm from both British and Mohawk Indian ancestry so part of my blood will be killing the other.

 

[Alandoril]

My issue with the trailer is that it is Hollywood History. It tries to reduce fairly complex issues that caused the Revolution to a few snappy, patriotic soundbites.

Some of them made sense but the one with the schoolboy was extremely stupid. He does not want to learn British history so he feels that he is being oppressed and supports a bloody revolution. School children all over the world learn history of countries far away.

Hell, I'm English and when I was in school all I seemed to learn about was American history, much to my annoyance. Maybe I should start a bloody revolution lol

 

[Alandoril]

I don't mind the whole American vs British thing, as well that was kinda the deal back then.

But for those saying the British Empire was one of the worst in history. No, just no. Of course it had its moments but nothing compared to the scale of the crimes committed by some other empires.

And to be perfectly honest I find Americas method of empire building over the last hundred years or so far more insidious. I mean at least other empires in the past have been honest about their intentions. With the Americans though, oh no, their empire creeps up on you without you even noticing. Their empire has no borders.It runs underneath the stream of non-existent money that props the world up and stretches even to the attempted elimination of non-American English in web browsers. God help you as well if you have something they want but will not give it to them, because then they like nothing more than to send the most powerful military force on the planet against people with equipment that has been outdated for decades.

One thing about historical jingoism is that it is often used to cloud the present and the future.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I wouldn't care if it was a game playing on the side of the american revolutionaries. I do mind them simplifying a complex historical series of events to a paint by numbers spelling out "America, fuck yeah!"

 

[rokkolpo]

If the protagonist has a good enough reason to take the side he takes.
I agree with him.

 

[Agow95]

The AC developers like to be historically accurate outside of the assassin-templar stuff, for example, sure we were against the Catholics with Ezio, but Borgia was one of the most evil popes in history, so if they do they're facts right they should remember the Americans were fighting for freedom for all White Protestant Men, and that they were racist to the Native Americans and black people.

 

[Blazing Steel]

AC3 is really pissing me off now. Both sides were dicks, neither had the moral high ground, if anything I see the Patriot as the bigger evil. Now most of what I would like to say has been said so I want to touch on something many seemed to have overlooked:

Durring the American Revolution most of the native americans sided with the British. Even those that supported the Patriots hated George Washington. Americans call him the founder of their nation, native americans call him the Town Destroyer. So how does a British-Native American such as Conor fight the British?

EDIT: Conor's a Mohawk? The Mohawks supported the British so what is Conor doing?

So I ask, where's the trailer of George Washington giving the order to burn down and kill the Onondaga when all they wanted was peace? Where's the trailer of Conor going against the will of his Chief and fighting most of his clan?

You want to be biased AC3 be my fucking guest, but don't clain to be neutral and then not follow history and paint the Patriots as being the 'good guys'. This lying is what really pisses me off.

Also, fyi people the French were on the side of the Patriots. Without the aid of the France the Patriots would have lost.

 

[Osaka117]

I don't play video games to learn accurate history, I'll read a book for that. I'm actually quite interested in history, it was my favorite class in school, and the history channel was one of my most watched until it became invaded with aliens. But just because I'm interested in history, doesn't mean I'm gonna crap my pants and get raging mad when a video game takes place in a real historical setting but ends up being biased to one side.

 

[Meatspinner]

Needs a "Don't give a flying fuck"

Whats with all these "controversies" that are constantly popping on these forums almost everyday?

 

[Chaos-Spider]

Needs a "Don't give a flying fuck"

Whats with all these "controversies" that are constantly popping on these forums almost everyday?

It has gotten to a rather silly point hasn't it, which is a shame as some of these 'controversies' have issues that need to be discussed if gaming as a medium is ever going to improve and explore new areas but these issues get hidden under all the hyperbole and complaining about daring to question the status quo of the videogame industry and geek culture in general.

As far as the July 4th trailer itself, I've seen it once and don't think it is indicative of the game as the other story and gameplay trailers seem like they will be more ambiguous about the morals of the revolution.

Also, isn't the history of American revolution oversimplified anyway as a matter of course?

Basically I don't really mind what happens in the animus so long as we don't spend the majority of our time there.

<my reasons: I don't know how to write spoilers so consider this a warning>

especially since this at the end of the Revelations section of the Desmond story arc Desmond had just come to terms with his past and heritage as an assassin and had somehow figured out the special thing that he needed to do to save the world from the disaster that was hinted at in the last two games and had woken up from his coma. So now in AC3 we need Desmond to do the big world saving thing to and the story arc. Spending all our time with a new ancestor in a new time period has nothing to do with this.

 

[Lugbzurg]

You know... why is this an issue, anyway? Most of the stuff I've seen in this era, films, books, TV shows, anything really, has always been on the bias of America = Good, England = Evil. So, why would anyone throw a fit about this?