Poll: The Nanjing Massacre

[Cap'n Ninja]

Firstly, before you finish reading this, even this paragraph, I'd like for you to vote in the poll. One of the things I'd really like to bring to light here is the ignorance of western society in this respect. Not ignorance as in stupidity, but ignorance as in lack of knowledge. Anyway, if you'd be so kind as to vote now, that would be great, and now, on with the rest of this topic.

I'm not going to tell you anything about the Chinese Holocaust, but instead ask you to look it up. Just typing in "Chinese Holocaust" or "Nanjing Massacre" should give you a few pages with substantial information.

Dicussion time:
What do you think of the ignorance of this in western society?
-Why do you think that ignorance exists, and what could be done to remedy it?
Do you think Japan should admit to the events that transpired, rather than denying all knowledge of them?
Would it be ethical to punish the descendants of those involved for the crimes committed?

 

[Acting like a FOOL]

japan has revisionist history that's been taught for years. Not much to be done beside protesting and that's been done to death.

 

[PunkyMcGee]

before research I voted no. but reading Wikipedia I've heard of parts of it before, namely the contest to kill 100 people using a sword, but not so much on the details as such.

 

[Grospoliner]

Actually The Rape of Nanking is about to be released as major motion picture by a Chinese studio.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/cityoflifeanddeath/

 

[Thaluikhain]

I dunno. It's fairly common knowledge that Japan committed terrible war crimes during WW2, in that much of what we'd call the Western World was on the other side, and had soldiers directly affected by it.

The Chinese side of it is generally overlooked, yes, but it is very much overshadowed by WW2.

Also, it doesn't help that they are nowdays an evil communist nation/major trading partner, and so cannot be portrayed sympathetically.

 

[Phlakes]

It's not ignorance, people just learn about what most affects the their country.

 

[Melon Hunter]

I would say half the issue is that the ruling party in China is very set against exposing any negative elements of their country; just look at how many political prisoners have been put away in prison for years for speaking out against the Communist Party. It's more a cultural difference than anything; Germany was perfectly willing to repent after the war and is still apologising for the acts of Nazis in some form today. The Nanjing Massacre, on the other hand, presents an embarrassment to both perpetrator and victim; the Chinese (or at least the Chinese government) would view the wanton slaughter with shame and rather not promote awareness of it as it is a weakness in the history of China.

The curious thing about the Japanese government stems from two things; firstly, Japan in 1937 was a country completely unlike the Japan of today. Before the removal of the Emperor, you have to remember that the Imperial Army were expected to be ruthless and unrelenting in the conquest of the Emperor's enemies, no matter how innocent they were. Secondly, the way Japanese culture deals with shame is very different from our Western ways; while you can apply the argument above to the German armed forces under the Nazis, it is not considered in the same way as Germany. While the both countries still feel shame for what happened in the run up to and during WWII, they deal with it in very different ways; Germany acknowledges it and stamps down on any attempt to justify what happened. Japan, on the other hand, would rather it not be mentioned at all.

I don't think any disrespect is meant to the survivors of the Massacre, it's just that we in the Western world are seeing the situation through a different cultural lens to those who can decide whether to acknowledge their wrongdoing or not.

 

[Bon_Clay]

Japans done a lot of terrible stuff that doesn't get as much attention as the Germans or Russians for example. They also had their go at doing tests on humans without their consent, but they never got punished for it like test during the Holocaust because they gave all their data to America.

There's absolutely no reason to punish descendants, they didn't have anything to do with it. The government is completely different and the people are all probably dead. Teach the stuff in school but having countries make official apologies doesn't really accomplish anything.

 

[darth gditch]

Firstly, before you finish reading this, even this paragraph, I'd like for you to vote in the poll. One of the things I'd really like to bring to light here is the ignorance of western society in this respect. Not ignorance as in stupidity, but ignorance as in lack of knowledge. Anyway, if you'd be so kind as to vote now, that would be great, and now, on with the rest of this topic.

I'm not going to tell you anything about the Chinese Holocaust, but instead ask you to look it up. Just typing in "Chinese Holocaust" or "Nanjing Massacre" should give you a few pages with substantial information.

Dicussion time:
What do you think of the ignorance of this in western society?
-Why do you think that ignorance exists, and what could be done to remedy it?
Do you think Japan should admit to the events that transpired, rather than denying all knowledge of them?
Would it be ethical to punish the descendants of those involved for the crimes committed?

The ignorance is reprehensible, but I don't think we can force people to care. Idealists have been trying for centuries, and should continue trying, but human nature dictates that all most people want is to be left alone in their own little microcosms, only concerned with what directly affects them.

Japan should admit to it. Russia should admit to its atrocities. So should China, the United States, France, Belgium, the U.K., and every other country that has committed them. Should they dwell on it? No. Should they admit that it happened and strive to ensure it never happens again? Yes.

Is it ethical to punish descendants? Absolutely not. We do not choose our parents and ancestors and what they did has no bearing on what the current generation is doing/should.

Put another way, should John Wilkes Booth's descendants be punished for Abraham Lincoln's murder? No that is ridiculous.

 

[zombiesinc]

Actually The Rape of Nanking is about to be released as major motion picture by a Chinese studio.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/cityoflifeanddeath/

There's a lot of heavy praise in that trailer, I expect good things from this. Well... good in a film making sense, not the actual Rape of Nanking.

OT - I knew of the massacre, but only an estimated death toll and summary, not so many details. After reading more online, I feel disgusted. I will never cease to be amazed by the things we will do to one another, in a negative manner of course.

 

[JustJuust]

Japan doesn't teach their kids about war crimes that Japanese army committed. One could argue that Japanese educational system is ignorant as well

 

[Aidinthel]

I had not previously heard the term "Chinese Holocaust" but I was aware of the Nanjing Massacre and the fact that similar events occurred at other places.

 

[derelict]

If you think that's bad, ought to see what also happened around that time. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731]


People were altogether different back then. Can't really fault anyone today for the world views of the past. Best to just remember and get a move on.

 

[Chappy]

I did not know of this but then the only Chinese history I read about up until now was the Three Kingdoms and fall of the Han era leading into the Jin Era and thats a fair time gap. :/

If the western world is ignorant for not knowing it would probably be because you are generally taught history that affected or revolves around your country more as mentioned by Phlakes. Also Nanjing is not the only unheard of massacre during war see 'Armenian Genocide' for an example it is more common than we would like to think.

Should they admit to the crimes? Yes, but descendants should not be punished for the crimes of their ancestors in my opinion as they are completely different people even if there is a blood relation.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I knew about it. Extreme Fascism, racism and imperialism at its most vile. They should admit to the crimes their nation did in the past but it would be foolish to try and pass the blame on to the current residents of Japan. The Japan of 1920-1945 is gone forever and extreme, blind fanaticism has been removed from the government. The Nuremberg trials already took care of the surviving leaders who ordered the acts.

*sigh*

As much as I'm fascinated by WWII, I don't think any people deserve such atrocities. No power in that war left without illegitimate blood on their hands. This is why we can't let totalitarian states like that come back into existence.

 

[Grospoliner]

Actually The Rape of Nanking is about to be released as major motion picture by a Chinese studio.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/cityoflifeanddeath/

There's a lot of heavy praise in that trailer, I expect good things from this. Well... good in a film making sense, not the actual Rape of Nanking.

OT - I knew of the massacre, but only an estimated death toll and summary, not so many details. After reading more online, I feel disgusted. I will never cease to be amazed by the things we will do to one another, in a negative manner of course.

The Japanese aren't the only ones. Soviet forces entering Berlin basically went on a rape and pillage spree.

 

[Genixma]

Firstly, before you finish reading this, even this paragraph, I'd like for you to vote in the poll. One of the things I'd really like to bring to light here is the ignorance of western society in this respect. Not ignorance as in stupidity, but ignorance as in lack of knowledge. Anyway, if you'd be so kind as to vote now, that would be great, and now, on with the rest of this topic.

I'm not going to tell you anything about the Chinese Holocaust, but instead ask you to look it up. Just typing in "Chinese Holocaust" or "Nanjing Massacre" should give you a few pages with substantial information.

Dicussion time:
What do you think of the ignorance of this in western society?
-Why do you think that ignorance exists, and what could be done to remedy it?
Do you think Japan should admit to the events that transpired, rather than denying all knowledge of them?
Would it be ethical to punish the descendants of those involved for the crimes committed?

You sir, live by your forum name it twas not a week ago that I was thinking about this.

Now as for discussion wise, Japan as been denying it for years and everyone knows they've done it and the damage is already done. So all we can do is like the Holocaust just tell people it happened and move on. Not in the sense that we should forget about it. But more on part that we can't do anything about it nowadays. The sins of past relatives shouldn't be pushed on their descendants. These are different people who we can't assume they'll make the same mistakes. Just lets keep telling and teaching everyone about it and let it be and let die. Not much else.

 

[Jark212]

What do you think of the ignorance of this in western society?

A lot of people do know about it, it was a terrible, terrible thing.

Why do you think that ignorance exists, and what could be done to remedy it?

I don't think that there is as much ignorance as your implying. I learned about it in high school so that is probably the best solution.

Do you think Japan should admit to the events that transpired, rather than denying all knowledge of them?

Yes, it was a horrific occurrence and should be acknowledged as such.

Would it be ethical to punish the descendants of those involved for the crimes committed?

No, the sins of a father do not pass on to their sons. Anyone that says otherwise should be backhanded for stupidity and ignorance.

While the Rape of Nanjing was a disaster beyond imagination, these kind of atrocities are hardly uncommon. For example there is actual Holocaust, what the Nazis did to the Soviets, what the Soviets did to Eastern Europe, the Rwandan genocide, the Armenian genocide, the Crusades. This kind of crap happens...

 

[EvilPicnic]

Actually, separate from general Western apathy, I think the nationalist Japanese culture of revisionism is quite well known to anybody with even a slight interest in world affairs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/21/japan.jonathanwatts

On a separate note, I mildy object to the use of the word 'holocaust' in this instance. There was only one holocaust, and it was the Holocaust. I think 'Rape of Nanjing', or 'Nanjing Massacre' are more appropriate descriptors.

 

[manythings]

And how many people now about the many times the english military was sent to ethnically cleanse Ireland and Scotland? The big players get to tell the story.