Poll: The Old VII

[userwhoquitthesite]

Okay before i begin id like to say the FF VII is my second fave.
Does any one else out there think square are wringing too much drops out of an already dry sponge
I mean there's ff7, advent children, dirge of cerburus , before crisis, crisis core and not to mention a whole list of games where they pop VII's characters into for novelty. am i the only ff vii fan that's annoyed at this?

Yes I agree they've done enough to tie up all back story and etc. There is only one for FFVII game that needs to made and that is FF7 remake for ps3.

You are wrong. VII gave all the backstory needed. The only use for more backstory is to explain all the bullshit that they've injected into the series since. And it has all gotten progressively worse. A remake would try and incorporate all of this crap AND lose the original feel of the game.

Oh I'm sorry I thought my OPINION was valid on a FORUM. They did leave plot holes in FFVII which have been filled and then some even though it was not really necessary. A remake would just put everything to rest and then we can finally move on as that is what they are obviously building up to. The sooner it is done the sooner we can move on.

When your done trolling can you explain how my or any [HEADING=2]opinion[/HEADING] is wrong?

An opinion can be wrong when it is an opinion on quantifiable topic. In this instance, you are wrong. I can't think of ANY plot holes in VII that can't be rectified with a little critical thought based on other data given in the source material. Now, you might be thinking that the additions to the series added more DEPTH to the world, perhaps more insight into the characters. On this point you and I DISAGREE but you cannot be called WRONG. And yes, you may be right that there will be a remake. However, this theoretical remake would definitely be worse for the wear.

Here's why: Firstly, it would be voice-acted, and BECAUSE it would be voice-acted, the dialogue would have to change. Barret's angry, foul-mouthed shouting would have to change, or else contain flow-breaking censor beeps. So would Cid's. These would fundamentally alter the identity of the characters. Barret is a hard-lived, down-to-earth coal miner who vents his anger into a semi-righteous cause, and has major explosion of his violent temper stemming from the impotent rage he feels. Likewise, a huge part of Cid's character stems from his swearing. In what maybe his quintessential scene, he sacrifices his dreams for the safety of the woman he blames for his misfortune, and lets fly a loud, drawn out expletive. There are more examples to list here, but I don't want to spend too much time on one point.

Next, there is the visual change. Yes, I will admit it would be much nicer to see Cloud, sephiroth, etc. in the stunning high-detail animation present in most current digital animation, but the world would also have to change. All of the minutia present in the matte presentation (such as the Texas neon in Seventh Heaven) would be lost. Midgar, in the original, was dirty, cluttered, and oppressive. Midgar couldn't be at filled with junk in a high-res game because no one is going to spend the time and money to model it all, not to mention how much extra space it would take up. As a result, we would have the Midgar we see in the tech demo; dark, but neat and clean. With the rubble and filth, we see that these people are forgotten and forsaken by the well-to-do and powerful. Not so if the streets are nice and clear. This smacks of a well-maintained importance that the slums should not have.

Furthermore, much of the adult subject matter, permissible with poor graphics and lack of voice acting, would likely rate an "M" stamp from the ESRB. For example, the Midgar Zolom's spectacularly graphic end, Reno's single-handed murder of hundreds of people, Sephiroth's habit of using dismembered body parts as a weapon (the jenova fights), Hojo attempting to mate Aeris with an animal, the sexual molestation cloud receives at the Honey Bee Inn (hell, most of Wall Market for that matter), and again, the heavy cursing. These things are, all things considered, not a big deal, but we only see them in M games.

Lastly, and here is where you will cry foul, the remake would include tie-ins to the later materials. This would be terrible, because none of the later material is GOOD.
Vincent is the most powerful thing on the planet! Hojo is the real villain of the series! Gackt is Sephiroth plus!

NO! all of these things (especially including Gackt, ever, for any reason) are all stupid, and make no sense, even when the new crap explains it. Each addition gets progressively worse, artistically, if not technically (although I maintain that Crisis Core is not fun in any way shape or form). Of course, we are likely to see yet another sequel given Gackt's chronological reappearance as a vampire thing at the end of Dirge of Cerberus. And the only saving grace of that game will be that the player will get to kill gackt.

[HEADING=1]And presenting a differing opinion, then explaining that opinion, is not trolling[/HEADING]

 

[JEBWrench]

I could've sworn Hojo was the real villain of the series. At least, that's what playing the game said to me.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Okay before i begin id like to say the FF VII is my second fave.
Does any one else out there think square are wringing too much drops out of an already dry sponge
I mean there's ff7, advent children, dirge of cerburus , before crisis, crisis core and not to mention a whole list of games where they pop VII's characters into for novelty. am i the only ff vii fan that's annoyed at this?

Yes I agree they've done enough to tie up all back story and etc. There is only one for FFVII game that needs to made and that is FF7 remake for ps3.

You are wrong. VII gave all the backstory needed. The only use for more backstory is to explain all the bullshit that they've injected into the series since. And it has all gotten progressively worse. A remake would try and incorporate all of this crap AND lose the original feel of the game.

Oh I'm sorry I thought my OPINION was valid on a FORUM. They did leave plot holes in FFVII which have been filled and then some even though it was not really necessary. A remake would just put everything to rest and then we can finally move on as that is what they are obviously building up to. The sooner it is done the sooner we can move on.

When your done trolling can you explain how my or any [HEADING=2]opinion[/HEADING] is wrong?

An opinion can be wrong when it is an opinion on quantifiable topic. In this instance, you are wrong. I can't think of ANY plot holes in VII that can't be rectified with a little critical thought based on other data given in the source material. Now, you might be thinking that the additions to the series added more DEPTH to the world, perhaps more insight into the characters. On this point you and I DISAGREE but you cannot be called WRONG. And yes, you may be right that there will be a remake. However, this theoretical remake would definitely be worse for the wear.

Here's why: Firstly, it would be voice-acted, and BECAUSE it would be voice-acted, the dialogue would have to change. Barret's angry, foul-mouthed shouting would have to change, or else contain flow-breaking censor beeps. So would Cid's. These would fundamentally alter the identity of the characters. Barret is a hard-lived, down-to-earth coal miner who vents his anger into a semi-righteous cause, and has major explosion of his violent temper stemming from the impotent rage he feels. Likewise, a huge part of Cid's character stems from his swearing. In what maybe his quintessential scene, he sacrifices his dreams for the safety of the woman he blames for his misfortune, and lets fly a loud, drawn out expletive. There are more examples to list here, but I don't want to spend too much time on one point.

Next, there is the visual change. Yes, I will admit it would be much nicer to see Cloud, sephiroth, etc. in the stunning high-detail animation present in most current digital animation, but the world would also have to change. All of the minutia present in the matte presentation (such as the Texas neon in Seventh Heaven) would be lost. Midgar, in the original, was dirty, cluttered, and oppressive. Midgar couldn't be at filled with junk in a high-res game because no one is going to spend the time and money to model it all, not to mention how much extra space it would take up. As a result, we would have the Midgar we see in the tech demo; dark, but neat and clean. With the rubble and filth, we see that these people are forgotten and forsaken by the well-to-do and powerful. Not so if the streets are nice and clear. This smacks of a well-maintained importance that the slums should not have.

Furthermore, much of the adult subject matter, permissible with poor graphics and lack of voice acting, would likely rate an "M" stamp from the ESRB. For example, the Midgar Zolom's spectacularly graphic end, Reno's single-handed murder of hundreds of people, Sephiroth's habit of using dismembered body parts as a weapon (the jenova fights), Hojo attempting to mate Aeris with an animal, the sexual molestation cloud receives at the Honey Bee Inn (hell, most of Wall Market for that matter), and again, the heavy cursing. These things are, all things considered, not a big deal, but we only see them in M games.

Lastly, and here is where you will cry foul, the remake would include tie-ins to the later materials. This would be terrible, because none of the later material is GOOD.
Vincent is the most powerful thing on the planet! Hojo is the real villain of the series! Gackt is Sephiroth plus!

NO! all of these things (especially including Gackt, ever, for any reason) are all stupid, and make no sense, even when the new crap explains it. Each addition gets progressively worse, artistically, if not technically (although I maintain that Crisis Core is not fun in any way shape or form). Of course, we are likely to see yet another sequel given Gackt's chronological reappearance as a vampire thing at the end of Dirge of Cerberus. And the only saving grace of that game will be that the player will get to kill gackt.

[HEADING=1]And presenting a differing opinion, then explaining that opinion, is not trolling[/HEADING]

Look not to sound bad but way you presented your point originally was trollish but now it isn't because you have expanded on your points which is good now we can discuss.

Yes it would have to voice acted but how is that going to stop cursing everything else does it. Although I do see where you're coming from on this point the only thing it would change is rating to M.

Yes I do see major problems with visual cross over but nothing that can't be solved with a bit of time and elbow grease. It would take massive amounts of time on Squares part it would pay off in the end in my opinion from a sales perspective. I really don't think that if employed properly would ruin the atmosphere.

Personally I have no problem with the M rating I'm not fully sure what point your trying to make here so could you explain it a bit differently as I am lost here.

Also the fact that it is a remake means it doesn't have to tie in with the other stuff. As those are their own. What it would do though was say add in new summons or something similar but story doesn't have tie in.

 

[Jamienra]

Yeah i think they should finally let it rest.
I want more Dissidia type games, it was awesome.
In fact i want a ff where all the characters are mixed and it plays out more like the other FF's.

[small]please make it happen....[/small][sub][sub]please![/sub][/sub]

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Yes it would have to voice acted but how is that going to stop cursing everything else does it. Although I do see where you're coming from on this point the only thing it would change is rating to M.

Yes I do see major problems with visual cross over but nothing that can't be solved with a bit of time and elbow grease. It would take massive amounts of time on Squares part it would pay off in the end in my opinion from a sales perspective. I really don't think that if employed properly would ruin the atmosphere.

Personally I have no problem with the M rating I'm not fully sure what point your trying to make here so could you explain it a bit differently as I am lost here.

Also the fact that it is a remake means it doesn't have to tie in with the other stuff. As those are their own. What it would do though was say add in new summons or something similar but story doesn't have tie in.

Ok, the problem with it being rated M is that Squenix would lose a major part of the audience for the game (yes, almost everyone who played VII is now of age to play M games, but it is still an FF title, and they would want to market to the normal FF market group (T to M ages). This means either they will make it M and lose a substantial amount of potential moneys, or keep it teen and fuck up all those heavy things.

As for why voice acting and better graphics make things less permissible, I don't know, but it does. There are lots of double standards like that. For instance, a movie filled with gun violence might only be rated PG-13, but the same amount of action replaced with knives makes it an R.

The visual problems COULD be solved, yes, but only by devoting a huge amount of time, money, and resources to the game that no company would ever do. To this company, FFVII is NOT the much-beloved nigh-holy relic we the gaming populace treat it as. To the company, it is only a commodity to make money off of. Combine this with Nomura's ever-more-obvious love of smooth, flat surfaces, and it is virtually GUARANTEED the game will never look right.

As for the last point, the thing is that FFVII does not leave the openings necessary for all of the later content. They don't fit at all. The remake would then be made to leave some of those things more open-ended and refer to things from the other games and such. The reason for this is very simple: They still make money off of the additional VII universe. Hence, they will subtly hint to everyone that HASN'T played DoC or CC, that they should purchase them. Of course, they shouldn't, but still.

Anyway, a remake would be oh-so-shiny, and I admit, I would purchase it eventually, because I would have to drool over Reno and watch the new 20-minute version of Knights of the Round, but I would make sure to wait until it was cheap as fuck and Squeenix couldn't make a cent off the purchase, because it would be so, so bad.

Oh, and speaking of Reno, they would probably change him back to his japanese/advent Children version where he is comical and inept. I much prefer the American Reno, who is one badass son of a ***** (dropped the muthafuckin' plate muthafucka!). This of course has nothing to do with my legitimate reasons why FFVII should never be remade.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Ok, the problem with it being rated M is that Squenix would lose a major part of the audience for the game (yes, almost everyone who played VII is now of age to play M games, but it is still an FF title, and they would want to market to the normal FF market group (T to M ages). This means either they will make it M and lose a substantial amount of potential moneys, or keep it teen and fuck up all those heavy things.

As for why voice acting and better graphics make things less permissible, I don't know, but it does. There are lots of double standards like that. For instance, a movie filled with gun violence might only be rated PG-13, but the same amount of action replaced with knives makes it an R.

The visual problems COULD be solved, yes, but only by devoting a huge amount of time, money, and resources to the game that no company would ever do. To this company, FFVII is NOT the much-beloved nigh-holy relic we the gaming populace treat it as. To the company, it is only a commodity to make money off of. Combine this with Nomura's ever-more-obvious love of smooth, flat surfaces, and it is virtually GUARANTEED the game will never look right.

As for the last point, the thing is that FFVII does not leave the openings necessary for all of the later content. They don't fit at all. The remake would then be made to leave some of those things more open-ended and refer to things from the other games and such. The reason for this is very simple: They still make money off of the additional VII universe. Hence, they will subtly hint to everyone that HASN'T played DoC or CC, that they should purchase them. Of course, they shouldn't, but still.

Anyway, a remake would be oh-so-shiny, and I admit, I would purchase it eventually, because I would have to drool over Reno and watch the new 20-minute version of Knights of the Round, but I would make sure to wait until it was cheap as fuck and Squeenix couldn't make a cent off the purchase, because it would be so, so bad.

Oh, and speaking of Reno, they would probably change him back to his japanese/advent Children version where he is comical and inept. I much prefer the American Reno, who is one badass son of a ***** (dropped the muthafuckin' plate muthafucka!). This of course has nothing to do with my legitimate reasons why FFVII should never be remade.

Ok I see now where you are coming from with the M rating but lets be honest here a rating has never ever stopped someone determined enough from a buying any game in the first place.

I don't really see what your getting at with the graphics and voice acting ruining the experience with the point you're making.

Although I do agree that it would take a lot of work for the graphics issue to be solved I think that they would do it. They already have Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Childern, Crisis Core to work off from as templates. Even still to make it a better remake they could tone down graphics for normal sequences and kick them up a notch for battles and CGI which personally I would love as a throw back to a bygone era.

Now I will say the only FF remake I have played is the one for 6 which as far as I remember didn't do any changes to story neither has any other remake for that matter to my knowledge. So with that fact I don't see why that should change for FF7 remake in the slightest. As all those spins offs are for themselves and stand alone(well they do will in plot holes regarding say Lucrecia and Sephiroth's origin but they are stand alone in regards to main sotry) off shoots from the main branch of the story.

Although I don't see why they should(although granted they probably would) ruin the good images of characters. Turning Cloud to emo(Vincent is the only one is emo in FF7 even then it suits him), making Reno comic relief, etc.

 

[Fraught]

I haven't played the entirety of Final Fantasy VII, but I did play Crisis Core, and I like FFVII's universe, what can I say.

Then again, it's the only spin-off I've played, though I have watched Advent Children.

 

[suhlEap]

yes, but does anyone remember ehrgeiz (sp?)
that was a brilliant fighting game with FFVII characters, though it did have it's limitations.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Ok I see now where you are coming from with the M rating but lets be honest here a rating has never ever stopped someone determined enough from a buying any game in the first place.

I don't really see what your getting at with the graphics and voice acting ruining the experience with the point you're making.

Although I do agree that it would take a lot of work for the graphics issue to be solved I think that they would do it. They already have Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Childern, Crisis Core to work off from as templates. Even still to make it a better remake they could tone down graphics for normal sequences and kick them up a notch for battles and CGI which personally I would love as a throw back to a bygone era.

Now I will say the only FF remake I have played is the one for 6 which as far as I remember didn't do any changes to story neither has any other remake for that matter to my knowledge. So with that fact I don't see why that should change for FF7 remake in the slightest. As all those spins offs are for themselves and stand alone(well they do will in plot holes regarding say Lucrecia and Sephiroth's origin but they are stand alone in regards to main sotry) off shoots from the main branch of the story.

Although I don't see why they should(although granted they probably would) ruin the good images of characters. Turning Cloud to emo(Vincent is the only one is emo in FF7 even then it suits him), making Reno comic relief, etc.

Yes, people do buy M games even when underage, but not as many do. Just like plenty of underage kids see r-rated movies, but not as many as see a pg-13 movie. That equals LOST MONEY

The FFVI remake was the same game with new colors, just like the Chrono Trigger remake (and that one had several dialogue changes). When you say remakes don't change the story, are you just referring to video game remakes? That's still not true, but its closer than saying that no remake ever made major changes to a story.

and you arent UNDERSTANDING the graphics issue. It isn't making the CHARACTERS look better that is the problem, it is making the WORLD. Sure, they already have modern models for most of the cast that could probably be used to ease the amount of work that would go into the characers, but you know what they DON'T have? a high-res version of the condor atop the fort tower, a new Temple of the Ancients... It isn't just making the map either, my whole point is that the new graphics require details to be more minutely detailed, and they will take more work. With modern graphics, you can't get away with as many pre-rendered textures and static objects. Like, in the early days of 3d, think how many objects were just a 2d image. Now those same objects (trees, fire, signs, all kind of set pieces) are all fully 3d and have to be modeled from scratch. Almost all of VII's environments are heavily detailed, but this is accomplished by basically having a drawing that everyone runs around on top of. It a modern game, there would be details, sure, but not as many as can be accomplished with a simple picture. Think about, say, Twilight Princess or Fallout 3. The details are really cool, but they are also pretty sparse. Fallout 3 has about five textures copy/pasted over 40 hours of game. Twilight Princess has fantastically huge maps and each one looks different enough, but there is also NOTHING in the world really, and the much more realistic graphics make it seem all the stranger that a whole continent can only be explored via six-odd roads.

Here is the thing: FFVII COULD be remade and it COULD be fantastic. But it wouldn't be.
The reason for this is, to make it great would require not just a graphics update, but a complete and total overhaul of the game. The levels would have to be redesigned from scratch and then tooled and retooled to make them feel the same as the old game. The enemies would likewise have to be redone. All of that might seem obvious, but my point is that to make the game RIGHT would require as much work as a wholly new game. No company is going to spend that much for a perfect remake when they could churn out something crappy and make the same amount in sales.

What did you need DoC or Crisis Core to tell you about either Lucrecia OR Sephiroth? All that needs to be known is that Lucrecia was a Shinra scientist, Sephiroth is her and Hojo's child that Hojo injects with Jenova cells to attempt to create a child with the powers of the Cetra (because Jenova is mistaken for an Ancient, when she is something alien to both the cetra and the planet). All of that comes from information ONLY in FFVII. In fact, the DoC backstory only makes LESS sense, because it forgets that Hojo is supposed to be highly attractive to women (and thus he was able to seduce lucrecia). CC on the other hand really reveals nothing about either of them, but only wedges sephiroth clones into the story (where there is no room for them) and has them existing BEFORE Sephiroth does (here i'm using clone in the falco=fox clone sense). The whole thing is nonsensical, badly written, and poorly implemented.

And yes, there is no REASON to change the characters, but as I said (and you seem to agree with) they almost certainly would. Combine this with the nigh-on-certainty that the snowboarding sequence would be SixAxis controlled, and we have a big shiny pile of poop

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I haven't played the entirety of Final Fantasy VII, but I did play Crisis Core, and I like FFVII's universe, what can I say.

Then again, it's the only spin-off I've played, though I have watched Advent Children.

I don't know why yu enjoyed Crisis Core, but if you enjoyed the world in which the game existed, you definitely need to pick up the original game. Even if you will likely be one of those wretched "Zack is better than Cloud!" fans.

FF7 was really good aside of some balance issues. Crisis Core was really good aside of randomized level ups and Gackt needing more to him than poetry.

Advent Children is fun but kind of stupid.

Dirge of Cerberus...

Gackt didn't need to EXIST much less have more activity.
Dirge of Cerberus had a really shitty story, but the gameplay itself worked. Like a low-budget DMC, with a reversed focus. Then it ruined it all by including a last level that is long enough to play that oh-so-awful Gackt song at least twice, then playing it during the boss fight, and again during the credits. Then, to make it even worse, Gackt APPEARED in the game's last cutscene. Ugh.

Anyway, my point has been made

 

[Fraught]

I don't know why yu enjoyed Crisis Core, but if you enjoyed the world in which the game existed, you definitely need to pick up the original game. Even if you will likely be one of those wretched "Zack is better than Cloud!" fans.

Why I enjoyed it? Because I liked the characters, the story events and even though I'm kind of okay with that, I still prefer real-time action to turn-based.

And no, I've played parts of FFVII, and watched Advent Children, which has Cloud. Even if I didn't play it much at that time, and don't remember much, Final Fantasy VII holds such memories within me. Every time I see it, I remember those good old days when I used to be a child, and went to my uncle's place, and had fun with my cousins.

Aah, good old times.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that no, I've never said or thought Zack is better than Cloud, and I do like Cloud more than Zack.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

I am amused by people passing opinion off as fact.

I am less amused by all this childish bickering. Stop it.

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

quite a lot of wanting on a remake.
would but nice but wouldn't be the same.
Th w- item glitch would go for one thing and training will never be the same,
imagine having to steal 99 elixir from 99 tonberry. no thanks

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I don't know why yu enjoyed Crisis Core, but if you enjoyed the world in which the game existed, you definitely need to pick up the original game. Even if you will likely be one of those wretched "Zack is better than Cloud!" fans.

Why I enjoyed it? Because I liked the characters, the story events and even though I'm kind of okay with that, I still prefer real-time action to turn-based.

And no, I've played parts of FFVII, and watched Advent Children, which has Cloud. Even if I didn't play it much at that time, and don't remember much, Final Fantasy VII holds such memories within me. Every time I see it, I remember those good old days when I used to be a child, and went to my uncle's place, and had fun with my cousins.

Aah, good old times.
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that no, I've never said or thought Zack is better than Cloud, and I do like Cloud more than Zack.

Then you are far better man than most. *shakes your hand*

 

[JEBWrench]

My only problem is that they focus on only ONE FF game, why seven? why not eight, or nine? or three for that matter, my point is I've played nearly every final fantasy game (I'm eighteen, no job, lots of time on my hands -_-) and personally I don't think seven was all that good, half the time I couldn't keep up with the plot, emerald weapon kept owning me when I hadn't saved in two hours, and eventually I just got tired of it all. Also I didn't like having to hold down a button to run.

Because seven has a rabid fanbase, and a lot of people are nostalgic for it as it was their introduction to both Final Fantasy and to JRPGs in general.

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

My only problem is that they focus on only ONE FF game, why seven? why not eight, or nine? or three for that matter, my point is I've played nearly every final fantasy game (I'm eighteen, no job, lots of time on my hands -_-) and personally I don't think seven was all that good, half the time I couldn't keep up with the plot, emerald weapon kept owning me when I hadn't saved in two hours, and eventually I just got tired of it all. Also I didn't like having to hold down a button to run.

Partially true. i mean look at XIII. it wasn't even out and they had already made plans for like 2 or 3 sister games to go with it. and whats wrong with holding X to run? it was like playing a racing game... well sort of.

 

[rosac]

I have solved the problem.

Every game released involving FF7 story wise are combined into to one mega game of awesome, with PS3 graphics and a blu ray of both films included in the box.

there we go, spinnoff problem solved.

rosac

p.s my point is that some of the spinnoffs were neccesary to fill plotholes, and thus should be counted as spinoffs, but subseries.

 

[Clyde]

yes, just let Square-Enix milk their cash cow dry and you can play something else

 

[LeonLethality]

They should have not made VII in the first place! the only good to come out of it was Crisis Core.

They could have made a different kind of VII that was less of a failure among the series and more of an amazing game like VI was.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

What I want is a prequel to FFX. Square really needs to contact me in regard to that for I have loads of ideas.

Yes, I would buy it on release even if it was just Jecht's story
They could also milk a full Blitzball game and an anime or game as a prequel to 10-2 about Nooj and Paine and the other two and what the crimson squad or whatever was doing during the original...I'd be interested