Poll: the supernatural

[0p3rati0n]

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

Ditto

ok let me ask something before I go into something. Are you both atheist?

I am. And?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.

Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

There's a few problems here.

The first: You are labeling one side as the "default." Simply because one side doesn't know something, you immediately switch to the other without analyzing the side you're moving to.

The second: You're not analyzing your own position. Let's apply that same logic you use to your side. Look at nature, it could never happen on its own. Okay then, how did that happen? God made it? Okay then, how did that happen? Er. Dead-end on your own side as well.

You label one side as wrong for not knowing what allowed the big bang to happen, but fail to realize that there is no explanation as to how God came into existence either.

---

And these aren't even me arguing for my side, I'm just showing you that your side doesn't have more evidence than the other does.

As for the big bang, there is evidence for it. By looking at the paths of all the galaxies that we can see, we can take the small line they've made that we can see, and turn that into a big line (you only need two points to make an entire line), and we've seen that they all would concur at the same point.

Also, a good way to see if a system of knowledge works or not is to see if, in that knowledge system, you can explain anything you encounter with the same statement. If you are able to explain any and all unknown events with a nearly identical statement, and it would make sense according to that knowledge system, chances are the system is bad.

For example: "God did it."

No matter what one says, if a person asks why Mars is red, one could answer "God did it."
Why are trees made of wood? God did it.
Why is the sun yellow? God did it.
Why is the ocean blue? God did it.
Why is it that monkeys and humans are so genetically similar? God did it.

You see?

And the same explanation could not be attached to any two of these according to modern science. We tend to have a sensible, specific explanation for most of the phenomena we witness, and if we don't, we'll try to understand it based on what we do know, and usually, the conclusions we come to make perfect sense. The only problem is getting people to listen with an objective ear, not one that has already taken a side.

I agree. But nothing in this universe can happen by its self. Something has to push it. But that thing needs a push. There is logic in everything. But how was logic made? Can you see where I'm going. God is confusing. But that's how "he" is what "he" is. That's how we can't become "Him." "He" controls almost everything except us. We were given chance. That's what "he" gave us. But "he" also gave freewill. The devil tempts us with the other side. That's why we are not in a perfect world because we take the devils side. Any bad thing in this world is not gods work. It's ours and the devils.

 

[Sewblon]

My mom says that she saw her mother's astral projection when she was still alive, my dad thinks that the family is under a curse that causes people to ignore us, and God has spoken to me a couple of times. It doesn't affect my life that much but it is present.

 

[MattRooney06]

intresting

 

[vede]

Spoiler

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

Ditto

ok let me ask something before I go into something. Are you both atheist?

I am. And?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.

Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

There's a few problems here.

The first: You are labeling one side as the "default." Simply because one side doesn't know something, you immediately switch to the other without analyzing the side you're moving to.

The second: You're not analyzing your own position. Let's apply that same logic you use to your side. Look at nature, it could never happen on its own. Okay then, how did that happen? God made it? Okay then, how did that happen? Er. Dead-end on your own side as well.

You label one side as wrong for not knowing what allowed the big bang to happen, but fail to realize that there is no explanation as to how God came into existence either.

---

And these aren't even me arguing for my side, I'm just showing you that your side doesn't have more evidence than the other does.

As for the big bang, there is evidence for it. By looking at the paths of all the galaxies that we can see, we can take the small line they've made that we can see, and turn that into a big line (you only need two points to make an entire line), and we've seen that they all would concur at the same point.

Also, a good way to see if a system of knowledge works or not is to see if, in that knowledge system, you can explain anything you encounter with the same statement. If you are able to explain any and all unknown events with a nearly identical statement, and it would make sense according to that knowledge system, chances are the system is bad.

For example: "God did it."

No matter what one says, if a person asks why Mars is red, one could answer "God did it."
Why are trees made of wood? God did it.
Why is the sun yellow? God did it.
Why is the ocean blue? God did it.
Why is it that monkeys and humans are so genetically similar? God did it.

You see?

And the same explanation could not be attached to any two of these according to modern science. We tend to have a sensible, specific explanation for most of the phenomena we witness, and if we don't, we'll try to understand it based on what we do know, and usually, the conclusions we come to make perfect sense. The only problem is getting people to listen with an objective ear, not one that has already taken a side.

I agree. But nothing in this universe can happen by its self. Something has to push it. But that thing needs a push. There is logic in everything. But how was logic made? Can you see where I'm going. God is confusing. But that's how "he" is what "he" is. That's how we can't become "Him." "He" controls almost everything except us. We were given chance. That's what "he" gave us. But "he" also gave freewill. The devil tempts us with the other side. That's why we are not in a perfect world because we take the devils side. Any bad thing in this world is not gods work. It's ours and the devils.

You're aware that you're not actually making any points, right?

Basically, you've replied to "What made God?" with "God gave us freewill."

As for the logic thing, you're still jumping wildly to conclusions. "Well, what made logic?" We don't know. "See, obviously God did it."

 

[0p3rati0n]

you believe trillions of galaxies in this demension and the next can be held together by super strings vibrating in the 10th demension and yet you find it hard to imagine that a human mind can find a way to continue existing without a corporeal form?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak5IA4TPHac

why must you hate on quantum possiblity?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.

Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

Look people, I'm not saying that science has an answer for every question and I don't deny that things like origin of the universe or the very nature of existence and non-existence lie beyond our ability to reason, but I know what people mean by "supernatural" and I know it's all bollocks. Were not talking about human conciousness existing in alternative universe (which is something probable IMO), but about ghosts, psychics and other things that we know are impossible in this world (even with the quantum string theory) and in fact are widely documented as frauds and illusions.

Well congrats retard your not a complete atheist!

No, I'm not a complete materialist, but I don't believe in an omnipotent intellect, so I am an atheist.
Also I'm not intellectualy retarded, which you can clearly see by the fact that I speak two languages and my current occupation.
kthxbai

wow ok I can't go on. I'm not here to convert you. More or less to show you what in my thoughts are. That's one reason we are here. So believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. But just remember this there are things in this life that we could never explain and it doesn't mean our minds are playing tricks. There is a lot more to this world. But something needs to help it come to be. So I can't go on with what your saying. Case closed on this person.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Have you ever experienced the supernatural? Please be honest.

I kinda have. When I was oooooh around two years old we moved into a new house. Today/ present my mom tells me when everyone was a sleep and she was the only one awake she would hear the shuffling of slippers on the floor. She would go check it out but no one was there. Also when I babysit my five year old and two year old cousins, the five year old has his eyes open (yet he's still asleep) he also talks in his sleep. It feels as if he's actually talking to someone I can't see.

So what's your story (if you have one)

I've gone into a steady coma and died. My father saved by life by performing mouth-to-mouth.



There is no afterlife.

 

[0p3rati0n]

Spoiler

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

Ditto

ok let me ask something before I go into something. Are you both atheist?

I am. And?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.


Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

There's a few problems here.

The first: You are labeling one side as the "default." Simply because one side doesn't know something, you immediately switch to the other without analyzing the side you're moving to.

The second: You're not analyzing your own position. Let's apply that same logic you use to your side. Look at nature, it could never happen on its own. Okay then, how did that happen? God made it? Okay then, how did that happen? Er. Dead-end on your own side as well.

You label one side as wrong for not knowing what allowed the big bang to happen, but fail to realize that there is no explanation as to how God came into existence either.

---

And these aren't even me arguing for my side, I'm just showing you that your side doesn't have more evidence than the other does.

As for the big bang, there is evidence for it. By looking at the paths of all the galaxies that we can see, we can take the small line they've made that we can see, and turn that into a big line (you only need two points to make an entire line), and we've seen that they all would concur at the same point.

Also, a good way to see if a system of knowledge works or not is to see if, in that knowledge system, you can explain anything you encounter with the same statement. If you are able to explain any and all unknown events with a nearly identical statement, and it would make sense according to that knowledge system, chances are the system is bad.

For example: "God did it."

No matter what one says, if a person asks why Mars is red, one could answer "God did it."
Why are trees made of wood? God did it.
Why is the sun yellow? God did it.
Why is the ocean blue? God did it.
Why is it that monkeys and humans are so genetically similar? God did it.

You see?

And the same explanation could not be attached to any two of these according to modern science. We tend to have a sensible, specific explanation for most of the phenomena we witness, and if we don't, we'll try to understand it based on what we do know, and usually, the conclusions we come to make perfect sense. The only problem is getting people to listen with an objective ear, not one that has already taken a side.

I agree. But nothing in this universe can happen by its self. Something has to push it. But that thing needs a push. There is logic in everything. But how was logic made? Can you see where I'm going. God is confusing. But that's how "he" is what "he" is. That's how we can't become "Him." "He" controls almost everything except us. We were given chance. That's what "he" gave us. But "he" also gave freewill. The devil tempts us with the other side. That's why we are not in a perfect world because we take the devils side. Any bad thing in this world is not gods work. It's ours and the devils.

You're aware that you're not actually making any points, right?

Basically, you've replied to "What made God?" with "God gave us freewill."

As for the logic thing, you're still jumping wildly to conclusions. "Well, what made logic?" We don't know. "See, obviously God did it."

Nothing made god. god is infinite. your making his human not a power. Look at that instead.

 

[Deacon Cole]

I have had an experience that was a little too weird, too convenience to write of as mere coincidence. However, I tried testing it and did not always get the same results. This led me to two possible conclusions. Either this was difficult to test due to the unreliable result because I simply not understand what was going on and all the variables and elements involved or it was simply a coincidence that first time.

I know in my rational mind that it is most likely the second, but I can't help but think that maybe there is something to it. It could be a version of the Observer Effect, after all, since I tended to not get results when I tried to make it work, but result did sometimes occur when I didn't.

So in the end, I don't know what happened. It's puzzling. If I can ever find a way to test and prove it, I'll let you know.

 

[vede]

Spoiler

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

Ditto

ok let me ask something before I go into something. Are you both atheist?

I am. And?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.


Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

There's a few problems here.

The first: You are labeling one side as the "default." Simply because one side doesn't know something, you immediately switch to the other without analyzing the side you're moving to.

The second: You're not analyzing your own position. Let's apply that same logic you use to your side. Look at nature, it could never happen on its own. Okay then, how did that happen? God made it? Okay then, how did that happen? Er. Dead-end on your own side as well.

You label one side as wrong for not knowing what allowed the big bang to happen, but fail to realize that there is no explanation as to how God came into existence either.

---

And these aren't even me arguing for my side, I'm just showing you that your side doesn't have more evidence than the other does.

As for the big bang, there is evidence for it. By looking at the paths of all the galaxies that we can see, we can take the small line they've made that we can see, and turn that into a big line (you only need two points to make an entire line), and we've seen that they all would concur at the same point.

Also, a good way to see if a system of knowledge works or not is to see if, in that knowledge system, you can explain anything you encounter with the same statement. If you are able to explain any and all unknown events with a nearly identical statement, and it would make sense according to that knowledge system, chances are the system is bad.

For example: "God did it."

No matter what one says, if a person asks why Mars is red, one could answer "God did it."
Why are trees made of wood? God did it.
Why is the sun yellow? God did it.
Why is the ocean blue? God did it.
Why is it that monkeys and humans are so genetically similar? God did it.

You see?

And the same explanation could not be attached to any two of these according to modern science. We tend to have a sensible, specific explanation for most of the phenomena we witness, and if we don't, we'll try to understand it based on what we do know, and usually, the conclusions we come to make perfect sense. The only problem is getting people to listen with an objective ear, not one that has already taken a side.

I agree. But nothing in this universe can happen by its self. Something has to push it. But that thing needs a push. There is logic in everything. But how was logic made? Can you see where I'm going. God is confusing. But that's how "he" is what "he" is. That's how we can't become "Him." "He" controls almost everything except us. We were given chance. That's what "he" gave us. But "he" also gave freewill. The devil tempts us with the other side. That's why we are not in a perfect world because we take the devils side. Any bad thing in this world is not gods work. It's ours and the devils.

You're aware that you're not actually making any points, right?

Basically, you've replied to "What made God?" with "God gave us freewill."

As for the logic thing, you're still jumping wildly to conclusions. "Well, what made logic?" We don't know. "See, obviously God did it."

Nothing made god. god is infinite. your making his human not a power. Look at that instead.

And now you've made a double standard.

You're okay with your side saying "Well, nothing made it, it's just always been there." but not the other side.

 

[Deacon Cole]

Guys, I'd rather you keep the religion thing out of this.

 

[sky14kemea]

Have you ever experienced the supernatural? Please be honest.

I kinda have. When I was oooooh around two years old we moved into a new house. Today/ present my mom tells me when everyone was a sleep and she was the only one awake she would hear the shuffling of slippers on the floor. She would go check it out but no one was there. Also when I babysit my five year old and two year old cousins, the five year old has his eyes open (yet he's still asleep) he also talks in his sleep. It feels as if he's actually talking to someone I can't see.

So what's your story (if you have one)

I've gone into a steady coma and died. My father saved by life by performing mouth-to-mouth.



There is no afterlife.

seriously?

no really, are you serious?

 

[0p3rati0n]

Let me rap this up. I'm just showing you what I believe in. I'm not trying to make any point. If I did then I suck at it. I can respect the fact there are atheists and non-atheists. I believe there is a power that controls the fact of this universe. If you want to think science is the only answer or something else I can also respect that. Doesn't mean I have to like it. What I've been giving you are topics in a way. I see you opinion and then I branch of on my belief. There were no points. I'm not trying to convert you and I never will.

I just can't believe that my topic went off-topic.

So I'm done. My job is done. you can quote me all you want but I'm done. So believe what you want to believe and I'll believe in what I believe in. Lets just agree on that ok? :'l

 

[Vauban]

This happened about 7 years ago but still remember it well.

In my house the room the computer was in was in a hallway along with all the bedrooms. I was playing on the computer which when you sit down have your back facing towards the doorway. I had the lights off but the hallway light was on shining light into the computer room. I was playing a game and noticed that someone had entered the room and was standing in the doorway because of the shadow that was projected on the wall behind the computer. I thought that it was my brother wanting to use the computer so I looked back and saw that no one was standing there but the shadow still persisted.

I know no one had entered the room when I looked around but the only way to get the shadow that was displayed would have been to stand in the doorway. After about 10 more seconds of watching the wall and looking in the doorway I saw the shadow move back and walk off but when I went out into the hallway to see if someone was walking off I realized that no one other than me was in one end of the house where the computer room was.

 

[CuddlyCombine]

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

You're assuming that the laws of physics are absolute and arbitrary. They're not. They were created by humans based on interpretations of observations. Just because we think something is impossible doesn't mean we've got it right. People said that planes couldn't fly, the earth was flat, and that Pasteur was a crook.

I dunno, it just makes me wonder why people always act like we've reached the epitome of knowledge when we're such a young species (compared to the universe). We've got plenty of time 'til heat death, and plenty of innovation is to come. Who's to say that there isn't something lying unexplained?

As for myself, I'm not a believer in the paranormal per se; maybe there's an alternate dimension that touches this one, or something like that. Whatever it is, it's probably scientific and not for me to worry.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Have you ever experienced the supernatural? Please be honest.

I kinda have. When I was oooooh around two years old we moved into a new house. Today/ present my mom tells me when everyone was a sleep and she was the only one awake she would hear the shuffling of slippers on the floor. She would go check it out but no one was there. Also when I babysit my five year old and two year old cousins, the five year old has his eyes open (yet he's still asleep) he also talks in his sleep. It feels as if he's actually talking to someone I can't see.

So what's your story (if you have one)

I've gone into a steady coma and died. My father saved by life by performing mouth-to-mouth.



There is no afterlife.

seriously?

no really, are you serious?

Absolutely. I took Dimatapp for the first time and went very hyper, after 5 minutes I got a bit tired. My parents let me nap on the couch. After 5 more minutes I wouldn't wake up. Then my heart stopped.

From what I've heard, my father put me on the ground and gave me mouth-to-mouth for 4 minutes before my heart started again.

During that time there was nothing. I didn't exist. There is no possible way to explain how nonexistance is...because anything you explain is too much.

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

There is no supernatural.
Just because you can't find explaination for something, doesn't mean it happens against the laws of physics.
I've experienced some highly improbable coincidences and tricks played by my mind, but I was never dumb enough to call it "paranormal", "supernatural" or "magic".

Sorry for being such a buzz-kill.

This.

This2

 

[ygetoff]

There is no supernatural in terms of ghosts, etc. However, there is a supernatural if you consider all the things that don't exist that still affect us. Take God. While some people believe in him/it/she/them, h/i/s/t doesn't exist, and is just a concept, it is still the most powerful concept ever. H/i/s/t doesn't exist, but still affects people in huge ways. A similar thing happens with love. Scientifically, love is just a chemical process, but in life it is so much more powerful than that.

 

[vede]

I've been called a "psychic deadzone". I can walk into the most haunted places in the U.K. and have NOTHING happen to me or the people around me. Having said that, my old R.E. teacher had a convincing argument for believing in Heaven (which I'll shorten); "If you believe in Heaven and it's not there, you lose nothing. If you don't believe and it is, you'll look like an idiot." So yeah, I haven't encountered anything, but I believe.

Cept if you believe in heaven and it ends up not existing, you've wasted your life on a lie. I hear the same argument about religion all the time.

If I'm being a good person, then I'm not wasting my life.

But isn't it far more moral to be good in this life simply because it's the right thing to do, rather then do it for some post-death reward?

This, this this, a thousand times this.

Why do people think the only reason to be a good person is religion...?

ARGGH.

I love saying that to religious people though, if you look into their eyes at that moment, you can see the exact second that their faith dies a little more.

I love seeing that. It's just... so fulfilling to see that I might actually be making a difference.

 

[ygetoff]

you believe trillions of galaxies in this demension and the next can be held together by super strings vibrating in the 10th demension and yet you find it hard to imagine that a human mind can find a way to continue existing without a corporeal form?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak5IA4TPHac

why must you hate on quantum possiblity?

ok good so let me go on. Why do you think there is no outer power (aka GOD) I think you put god as a person more or less a power. God is infinity, side eight, etc. That's why "he" has always been there/ here. When I get the question why doesn't god help us with our problems. It's because he helps our inner straight. He can help externally. But that's only if you say it was him and his work.

Look at nature it could never happen on it's own. If it did how. Evolution? Ok then how did that happen? the big bang? Ok then how did that happen? dust particles collecting in space where nothing is there? Ok then how did that happen? That's the dead end. That's the part scientists can't figure out and will never will.

Scientist also are trying to find out what powers the power of an atom. That's another thing they will never find out.

So work off that.

Look people, I'm not saying that science has an answer for every question and I don't deny that things like origin of the universe or the very nature of existence and non-existence lie beyond our ability to reason, but I know what people mean by "supernatural" and I know it's all bollocks. Were not talking about human conciousness existing in alternative universe (which is something probable IMO), but about ghosts, psychics and other things that we know are impossible in this world (even with the quantum string theory) and in fact are widely documented as frauds and illusions.

Well congrats retard your not a complete atheist!

No, I'm not a complete materialist, but I don't believe in an omnipotent intellect, so I am an atheist.
Also I'm not intellectualy retarded, which you can clearly see by the fact that I speak two languages and my current occupation.
kthxbai

wow ok I can't go on. I'm not here to convert you. More or less to show you what in my thoughts are. That's one reason we are here. So believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. But just remember this there are things in this life that we could never explain and it doesn't mean our minds are playing tricks. There is a lot more to this world. But something needs to help it come to be. So I can't go on with what your saying. Case closed on this person.

Seriously? You are frustrated? What about him? You called him a retard, and then proceeded to counter his points with "well God did it and you dont get it so there."

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

If the "supernatural" was real, wouldn't it just be natural? If the world worked like that, with ghosts, spirits, unicorns and such, it'd just be the way the world works. Supernatural implies that it doesn't. That it's apart from nature - that it's not real. There's no secret rules embedded in world that'll allow you to have super powers, stay healthy, or woo strangers. There's no force you can harness through chant and belief, other than the placebo effect and other products of your mind.

You think Disney World wouldn't be all over that shit if they could get it for real, instead of just using Animatronics and, fog machines and GCI projectors? You think pharmaceutical companies would be hording the rights for rituals? If it were real it wouldn't be grannies, weirdos, and cultists communing and practicing magic - it'd be industries. If it were real, everyone and their mother would be practicing it.