Poll: To the anime haters

[ex275w]

3) They watched Naruto/DBZ/Sailor Moon/Bleach/Code Geass/Death Note and thought it was cliched crap, which some of it is.

Elaborate on the Code Geass / Death Note being cliched. If you know a better series with Magnificients Bastards then say it

In the meantime... YOU

Yeah, you the OP! You didnt put Hokuto No Ken style or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure style or Fate Stay Night style.

I am dissapoint

(The first one who finds a Frollo image with the "Quasimodo, I am dissapoint" wins a price )

Milo Minderbender from Catch 22, Lucifer from the Sandman and Lucifer comics, Lord Vetinari from the Discworld novels, and Akio from Revolutionary Girl Utena are better Magnificent Bastards than Light or Lelouch, at least they don't go down like punks when they are beaten.

Also OP put Jojo's and Mononoke, no one with eyes would tell you they look the same.

 

[axlryder]

You forgot many many other different styles =|
Most of these styles are pretty old school serious styles of animation.
What about PSG, Zero no Tsukaima, Birdy: The Mighty, Nyan Koi, Lucky Star styles?

I know OTL

the poll only had so many options though. I'm sooorrryyy!!!!

*jumps off of building*

Don't include a poll next time then. Your thread shouldn't have to suffer because you want to include a poll =|

Edit: why the hell did it quote twice...

I needed the poll. It's all part of my master plan. Actually it's just to determine if people like the art styles I mentioned, since I was leaning in that direction for the artwork anyway. I knew there would be a lot of "others" but it's pretty spaced out with the ones I listed, making a determination pretty difficult.

 

[Threeseventyfive]

I generally don't care for anime. I don't have any real reason but I dislike most of it.

I still think Hellsing is pretty badass though.

 

[axlryder]

3) They watched Naruto/DBZ/Sailor Moon/Bleach/Code Geass/Death Note and thought it was cliched crap, which some of it is.

Elaborate on the Code Geass / Death Note being cliched. If you know a better series with Magnificients Bastards then say it

In the meantime... YOU

Yeah, you the OP! You didnt put Hokuto No Ken style or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure style or Fate Stay Night style.

I am dissapoint

(The first one who finds a Frollo image with the "Quasimodo, I am dissapoint" wins a price )

Milo Minderbender from Catch 22, Lucifer from the Sandman and Lucifer comics, Lord Vetinari from the Discworld novels, and Akio from Revolutionary Girl Utena are better Magnificent Bastards than Light or Lelouch, at least they don't go down like punks when they are beaten.

Also OP put Jojo's and Mononoke, no one with eyes would tell you they look the same.

Mononke falls under Ghibli/Miyazaki. I'm putting Jojo now.

 

[Eggsnham]

I don't really like it because it honestly is just all the same annoying shit.

You've got the male protagonist who's either extremely skinny, or more muscle than anything else, the extremely dis-proportioned female characters (who all manage to sound as if they're ten years old), and everybody fights with some sort of sword/gun combo.

Not to mention the horribly exaggerated voice acting and animation and the almost always predictable plot of: journey to 'x' place, obtain 'y' artifact/ancient weapon and destroy 'z' ancient evil bad guy.

Not to mention that the characters will monologue for like five episodes before they actually get to any sort of action.

Oh, and nobody ever gets hurt. The characters always manage to dodge bullets, knives, punches, kicks and massive blasts of energy. That or they get hit, and everything surrounding them is destroyed, but they only have a few scratches on them.

I know that not all anime is like this, but a pretty sizable portion of it is, and I'd really rather not watch it at all than sift through it to find a series that I'd be able to watch without feeling the need to criticize it constantly.

 

[Doneeee]

Erhm I don't know the diference... I really should get into anime again.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

This is strictly talking about the visuals; there's no need to mention the story or character aspects.
**snip**
Also, since it won't let me edit the poll, it should say they all "look" the same for the last option.

These are my options? A bunch of Shounen?

Spoiler: How about these?

Utena?

Sailor Moon?

Noir?

Escaflowne?

Slayers?

Magic Knight Rayearth?

Or Mai Hime?

I mean, really - what a limited selection of anime art styles you've presented.

In any case, I prefer either the hyper-stylized Utena style (which is a spiritual successor to the stylized Escaflowne style) or the more realistic, CG aided, sleeker Mai-Hime style.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

WHERE IS THE MADHOUSE STYLE?

I CALL SHENANIGANS!


SHENANIGANS!


seriously, people don't think Trigun had a good art style?

When it wasn't using facefaults, I loved Trigun's art style. But I hate it when a person's mouth flap drops off their face.

Still, hilarious.

 

[ex275w]

3) They watched Naruto/DBZ/Sailor Moon/Bleach/Code Geass/Death Note and thought it was cliched crap, which some of it is.

Elaborate on the Code Geass / Death Note being cliched. If you know a better series with Magnificients Bastards then say it

In the meantime... YOU

Yeah, you the OP! You didnt put Hokuto No Ken style or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure style or Fate Stay Night style.

I am dissapoint

(The first one who finds a Frollo image with the "Quasimodo, I am dissapoint" wins a price )

Milo Minderbender from Catch 22, Lucifer from the Sandman and Lucifer comics, Lord Vetinari from the Discworld novels, and Akio from Revolutionary Girl Utena are better Magnificent Bastards than Light or Lelouch, at least they don't go down like punks when they are beaten.

Also OP put Jojo's and Mononoke, no one with eyes would tell you they look the same.

Mononke falls under Ghibli/Miyazaki. I'm putting Jojo now.

I mean Mononoke the Toei anime series not Princess Mononoke by Hayao Miyazaki.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

They all look uninteresting, apart from Gantz, which I cannot see, because the OP is a bandwidth thief.

Cowboy and Samuria Champloo are worth watch.

-From some one who doesn't really care for anime.

 

[axlryder]

This is strictly talking about the visuals; there's no need to mention the story or character aspects.
**snip**
Also, since it won't let me edit the poll, it should say they all "look" the same for the last option.

These are my options? A bunch of Shounen?

Spoiler: How about these?

Utena?

Sailor Moon?

Noir?

Escaflowne?

Slayers?

Magic Knight Rayearth?

Or Mai Hime?

I mean, really - what a limited selection of anime art styles you've presented.

In any case, I prefer either the hyper-stylized Utena style (which is a spiritual successor to the stylized Escaflowne style) or the more realistic, CG aided, sleeker Mai-Hime style.

Yes, I had little other choice, given the nature of the story that the final art-style will be applied to. I honestly wish the poles had more options, though. Also, most of those are seinen or borderline seinen.

 

[axlryder]

3) They watched Naruto/DBZ/Sailor Moon/Bleach/Code Geass/Death Note and thought it was cliched crap, which some of it is.

Elaborate on the Code Geass / Death Note being cliched. If you know a better series with Magnificients Bastards then say it

In the meantime... YOU

Yeah, you the OP! You didnt put Hokuto No Ken style or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure style or Fate Stay Night style.

I am dissapoint

(The first one who finds a Frollo image with the "Quasimodo, I am dissapoint" wins a price )

Milo Minderbender from Catch 22, Lucifer from the Sandman and Lucifer comics, Lord Vetinari from the Discworld novels, and Akio from Revolutionary Girl Utena are better Magnificent Bastards than Light or Lelouch, at least they don't go down like punks when they are beaten.

Also OP put Jojo's and Mononoke, no one with eyes would tell you they look the same.

Mononke falls under Ghibli/Miyazaki. I'm putting Jojo now.

I mean Mononoke the Toei anime series not Princess Mononoke by Hayao Miyazaki.

Oh wow, it's like the Edo period meets Cat Soup.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I don't really like it because it honestly is just all the same annoying shit.

You've got the male protagonist who's either extremely skinny, or more muscle than anything else, the extremely dis-proportioned female characters (who all manage to sound as if they're ten years old), and everybody fights with some sort of sword/gun combo.

... what a limited and dull selection of shounen anime you've seen. Seriously, what sucky shows have you been watching where that description even applies?

Try Noir. The protagonists are a pair of female assassins.

No male character survives longer than two episodes.

Seriously, this show is bad-ass, full of professional murder, and doesn't feature any skinny boys or whiny, child-voiced women. And no sword-gun combos, unless you count stabbing someone with a sword in one hand and shooting someone else with a gun in the other hand. And that only happens, like, once.

 

[zehydra]

I'm not a person that hates anime, though I do find a lot of anime to be overly similar and overly over-the-top. I prefer artistic and situational realism in anime, like in Monster and Miyazaki films.

My big problem (in my experience) with many anime shows is that they are often way too predictable and unoriginal.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Yes, I had little other choice, given the nature of the story that the final art-style will be applied to.

**head tilt** Huh? Applied to? Is this for a project? (I skimmed the OP... sorry).

Also, most of those are seinen or borderline seinen.

Yes, I know. I generally lump seinen in with shounen, just as I generally lump all female-oriented manga into shoujo even though they technically fall into other categories. It's just easier when I'm typing a quick post.

For that matter, Miyazaki doesn't really fall into ANY category but his own. Although, of his work, I prefer Nausica. The manga, I mean, not the movie (which isn't bad, but it isn't as good as the manga).

 

[axlryder]

Yes, I had little other choice, given the nature of the story that the final art-style will be applied to.

**head tilt** Huh? Applied to? Is this for a project? (I skimmed the OP... sorry).

Also, most of those are seinen or borderline seinen.

Yes, I know. I generally lump seinen in with shounen, just as I generally lump all female-oriented manga into shoujo even though they technically fall into other categories. It's just easier when I'm typing a quick post.

For that matter, Miyazaki doesn't really fall into ANY category but his own. Although, of his work, I prefer Nausica. The manga, I mean, not the movie (which isn't bad, but it isn't as good as the manga).

Very true, Ghibli really does do their own thing. Also it IS for a project, but it's not your fault for not knowing because I wanted to avoiding putting that in the OP. However, since it's clearly relevant information, I should have put it in. It's been edited now.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I really like the style used in Gurren Lagann.

Spoiler

It's like if a comic book with incredible cell shading and ordinary anime had sweet, lusty sex and made a baby.

then sent the baby to learn how to be awesome for ALL the masters of awesome all while dumping points in 'epic' as it leveled up. its little brother is Asura's Wrath, needless to say, it looked up to it's big bro XD

 

[ex275w]

So yeah OP the problem is that people problem is that people aren't exposed to the good non-cliched crap. So they end up generalizing a medium with the following:

Stupid hairdo dude fights with phallic symbol against a gay stereotype. (Naruto Bleach, DBZ)

A guy falls into the badly proportioned boobs of little girls who are attacked by tentacles. (Love Hina, Zero no Tsukaima, To-LOVE-Ru)

Magical underage girls with huge eyes fight badly designed monsters with 3 frames of animation and stock footage. (Cardcaptor Sakura, Sailor Moon)

2 gay bishies who hate each other becomes friends and then enemies. (Naruto, Code Geass, Death Note)

When someone points out that does not to all anime or that X example invalidates their stereotype (Planetes deals with hard physics in space). They say they don't give a crap to watch any other stuff because they don't care/are lazy to research something they'd like.

So in the end truly great shows like Monster, Planetes, Mononoke and perhaps Kaiji are ignored because the 14 year old Naruto fans don't get the series/Doesn't appeal to them. The people that would enjoy the shows don't watch them because they think its DBZ again.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Also it IS for a project, but it's not your fault for not knowing because I wanted to avoiding putting that in the OP. However, since it's clearly relevant information, I should have put it in. It's been edited now.

**reads updated OP**

OH! Okay, so you're looking to modify your style to appeal to a wider audience.

Well, you still might want to consider including Noir - it's probably the most 'serious' and 'non typical anime' style anime from my list. Also it might technically be seinen, I can't remember.

Anyway...

I'm not sure anime haters were the people to ask. You're getting a lot of people talking about content, or more specifically the content of the one anime they ever watched (as if all anime were like that one thing they saw, which is a huge fallacy, but whatever), and very few people are actually talking about the art.

I guess a lot of this depends on how exactly you plan to market your work, and with what companies you plan to work. Anime has greatly influenced western animation by this point (I mean, just look at the anime influences in MLP FiM!) so to some degree all western animation (other than 80s retro) is influenced by anime. On the other hand, if you're trying to animate a 'western anime' then I don't think asking haters what they like will really help you appeal to a wider audience. Haters will still ignore your work because it's "that anime crap" they never bothered to explore, so your fan-base will still be made up of anime fans in any case.

Of course, not knowing the details of your work, I'm guessing in the dark here.... so I could be wrong.

 

[axlryder]

Also it IS for a project, but it's not your fault for not knowing because I wanted to avoiding putting that in the OP. However, since it's clearly relevant information, I should have put it in. It's been edited now.

**reads updated OP**

OH! Okay, so you're looking to modify your style to appeal to a wider audience.

Well, you still might want to consider including Noir - it's probably the most 'serious' and 'non typical anime' style anime from my list. Also it might technically be seinen, I can't remember.

Anyway...

I'm not sure anime haters were the people to ask. You're getting a lot of people talking about content, or more specifically the content of the one anime they ever watched (as if all anime were like that one thing they saw, which is a huge fallacy, but whatever), and very few people are actually talking about the art.

I guess a lot of this depends on how exactly you plan to market your work, and with what companies you plan to work. Anime has greatly influenced western animation by this point (I mean, just look at the anime influences in MLP FiM!) so to some degree all western animation (other than 80s retro) is influenced by anime. On the other hand, if you're trying to animate a 'western anime' then I don't think asking haters what they like will really help you appeal to a wider audience. Haters will still ignore your work because it's "that anime crap" they never bothered to explore, so your fan-base will still be made up of anime fans in any case.

Of course, not knowing the details of your work, I'm guessing in the dark here.... so I could be wrong.

No, you're mostly right. The content is something that could definitely appeal to a western audience. I was hoping to get more input as to WHY people don't like the way anime looks, but there's really not a whole lot of awesome reasons being thrown around. I was hoping that maybe tweaking certain features would open up new doors, but based on what this thread has given me the answer to opening new doors really does seem to be "make it not anime". The better input is coming from people who seem to occasionally watch anime anyway. Ultimately, I think I'll just live with the consequences of working with an anime style.