Poll: To the anime haters

[AceofStaves]

2 gay bishies who hate each other becomes friends and then enemies. (Naruto, Code Geass, Death Note)

Wait, what? We're seriously going to put something as dark and oppressively cynical as Death Note in the same boat as Naruto? Just because 14 year old fangirls are idiots in it for "OMG, the bishie!!"?

 

[ex275w]

Also it IS for a project, but it's not your fault for not knowing because I wanted to avoiding putting that in the OP. However, since it's clearly relevant information, I should have put it in. It's been edited now.

**reads updated OP**

OH! Okay, so you're looking to modify your style to appeal to a wider audience.

Well, you still might want to consider including Noir - it's probably the most 'serious' and 'non typical anime' style anime from my list. Also it might technically be seinen, I can't remember.

Anyway...

I'm not sure anime haters were the people to ask. You're getting a lot of people talking about content, or more specifically the content of the one anime they ever watched (as if all anime were like that one thing they saw, which is a huge fallacy, but whatever), and very few people are actually talking about the art.

I guess a lot of this depends on how exactly you plan to market your work, and with what companies you plan to work. Anime has greatly influenced western animation by this point (I mean, just look at the anime influences in MLP FiM!) so to some degree all western animation (other than 80s retro) is influenced by anime. On the other hand, if you're trying to animate a 'western anime' then I don't think asking haters what they like will really help you appeal to a wider audience. Haters will still ignore your work because it's "that anime crap" they never bothered to explore, so your fan-base will still be made up of anime fans in any case.

Of course, not knowing the details of your work, I'm guessing in the dark here.... so I could be wrong.

Yeah it depends on the audience, little kids like exaggerated characters so look for stuff like Doreamon, Eyeshield 21 and Panty & Stocking. Teens like more realistic looking characters so I think studying stuff like Black Lagoon, Planetes and SHAFT would appeal to teens. For adults study Monster, Berserk, Crying Freeman.

Also if you are trying to make something with anime trappings, the haters are still gonna hate even if you appeal to them don't fall into the George Lucas trap of trying to please everyone.

EDIT: Yeah just watch Monster, Berserk, Lone Wolf and Cub, Mushishi, Blade of the Immortals and Crying Freeman. Gunnerkrigg Court is anime influenced and is a cool webcomic so check that.

 

[Animyr]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

 

[ex275w]

2 gay bishies who hate each other becomes friends and then enemies. (Naruto, Code Geass, Death Note)

Wait, what? We're seriously going to put something as dark and oppressively cynical as Death Note in the same boat as Naruto? Just because 14 year old fangirls are idiots in it for "OMG, the bishie!!"?

That was a joke. The fangirls obviously only like the shows because they think the dark themes and hot gay guys because they its its either Kawaii or edgy.

 

[AceofStaves]

2 gay bishies who hate each other becomes friends and then enemies. (Naruto, Code Geass, Death Note)

Wait, what? We're seriously going to put something as dark and oppressively cynical as Death Note in the same boat as Naruto? Just because 14 year old fangirls are idiots in it for "OMG, the bishie!!"?

That was a joke. The fangirls obviously only like the shows because they think the dark themes and hot gay guys because they its its either Kawaii or edgy.

Fair enough. I suppose as a fan it just irks me that that's the cultural perception I see most often from non-fans, this idea that every show is the same, being the one they saw that was poorly Westernized by 4kids, rather than having its own target audience, like any Western media.

 

[Dead Seerius]

While there are lots of things I really don't care for in anime, the one "art style" aspect that really bugs me (and seems to be present in just about every 'genre' or whatever you call them) is the goddamn HAIRSTYLES.
I will never take a show seriously when half of its characters have hairdos that look like they belong on multicolored porcupines. I just can't.

 

[ex275w]

2 gay bishies who hate each other becomes friends and then enemies. (Naruto, Code Geass, Death Note)

Wait, what? We're seriously going to put something as dark and oppressively cynical as Death Note in the same boat as Naruto? Just because 14 year old fangirls are idiots in it for "OMG, the bishie!!"?

That was a joke. The fangirls obviously only like the shows because they think the dark themes and hot gay guys because they its its either Kawaii or edgy.

Fair enough. I suppose as a fan it just irks me that that's the cultural perception I see most often from non-fans, this idea that every show is the same, being the one they saw that was poorly Westernized by 4kids, rather than having its own target audience, like any Western media.

Generalization is a problem human have to deal with. It helps to some extent if one remembers that exceptions always exist you won't look like a close minded person. Sadly this thread proves not everyone is trained to not to spout generalizations as absolutes.

 

[axlryder]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible or mediocre artists. That's not hyperbole, just go on DA. You can go through pages upon pages of anime without finding a single decent, non-derivative image. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name. This is obviously just opinion, of course, but it's still frustrating for someone who actually takes their artwork seriously. Also, no, I didn't draw my avatar btw. That's an image cap from a tomska cartoon.

 

[AceofStaves]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible or mediocre artists. That's not hyperbole, just go on DA. You can go through pages upon pages of anime without finding a single decent, non-derivative image. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

Honestly, if you're trying to judge the quality of anything based on the works of DeviantArt users, anime or otherwise, you're probably better off hanging yourself now. You'll never be happy.

 

[ex275w]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible artists. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

All good artists have to start from the same initial point which is drawing from real life. DA artists start from tutorials and since "anime" has the "advantage" of looking "complex" and being "simple" to draw they "learn" the style and never improve. I mean to draw a exaggerated person/squirrel/airplane you have to know how they look in the first place.

 

[ex275w]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible or mediocre artists. That's not hyperbole, just go on DA. You can go through pages upon pages of anime without finding a single decent, non-derivative image. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

Honestly, if you're trying to judge the quality of anything based on the works of DeviantArt users, anime or otherwise, you're probably better off hanging yourself now. You'll never be happy.

I knew something was off when I wasn't being satisfied by the yaoi fanfiction I read on DeviantArt. Thanks for informing me of that! I feel moe happy now.

 

[General BrEeZy]

Cowboy Bebop the shiiiiiiiiiit yo! Miyazaki's are effing amazing too! beyond that, i don't watch anime at all anymore.

 

[Luca72]

Anime definitely tends to make me shudder the same way I do when I see all those little legs on a centipede moving in unison, but, wow, this was a tough decision. I went with Miyazaki, because it really seems to represent a style of it's own. It's sort of how Pixar shares a lot of designs in common with other western cartoonists, but manages to make it very personal and unique.

It was that or Cowboy Bebop, a series I absolutely adore. But the more I think about Bebop it didn't have a particularly unique art style, though it did have interesting ideas and gorgeous backdrops. And a killer soundtrack.

And though I never watched Samurai Champloo I'll admit I'm fond of its art style too. I think I read that it was by the same guys that did Cowboy Bebop though, so that would make sense.

 

[axlryder]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible or mediocre artists. That's not hyperbole, just go on DA. You can go through pages upon pages of anime without finding a single decent, non-derivative image. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

Honestly, if you're trying to judge the quality of anything based on the works of DeviantArt users, anime or otherwise, you're probably better off hanging yourself now. You'll never be happy.

To be fair, there ARE good artists on there (among other corners of the internet). They're just far and few between. however, if you can find me a decent sized portal for GOOD American anime artwork, please link away. Sadly, however, I think they represent the majority and tend to shape the internet's perception of what it means to be an "american anime artist", i.e., you post your crappy Naruto doodles on DA. That's what's frustrating about it. I'm pretty sure Gelbooru and Danbooru are all just Japanese artists.

 

[Easton Dark]

Snip

I'm lucky that I don't even have to look for anime that isn't like this. All I do is turn on Adult Swim on Saturday (Except Bleach. Bleach I watch and is as you describe).

You may try asking for stuff you may like that doesn't compose all of that? They aren't as rare as you seem to think.

 

[axlryder]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible artists. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

All good artists have to start from the same initial point which is drawing from real life. DA artists start from tutorials and since "anime" has the "advantage" of looking "complex" and being "simple" to draw they "learn" the style and never improve. I mean to draw a exaggerated person/squirrel/airplane you have to know how they look in the first place.

This is 100% true of a lot of "anime artists" I've met. Now, to be fair, you don't have to start from real life, but at some point you have to learn it, and I'd agree that it's the best place to start so you don't form bad habits. It's also ironic, as you mention, that often times trying to learn the "style" first impedes them from ever really mastering it. A lot of professional anime artists have some background in still life and life drawing for that very reason (though some monstrously talented ones can skip it). A great example is Yoshihiro Togashi's work. Just compare Level E to Hunter X Hunter.

 

[ex275w]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible artists. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

All good artists have to start from the same initial point which is drawing from real life. DA artists start from tutorials and since "anime" has the "advantage" of looking "complex" and being "simple" to draw they "learn" the style and never improve. I mean to draw a exaggerated person/squirrel/airplane you have to know how they look in the first place.

This is 100% true of a lot of "anime artists" I've met. Now, to be fair, you don't have to start from real life, but at some point you have to learn it, and I'd agree that it's the best place to start so you don't form bad habits. It's also ironic, as you mention, that often times trying to learn the "style" first impedes them from ever really mastering it. Almost all professional anime artists have some background in still life and life drawing for that very reason (though some monstrously talented ones can skip past it).

Another important facet in learning to draw is learning from the people who inspired the people who inspired you. If you like anime then you have to study Tezuka who started it all and then his influence who was Disney Disney. This teaches you why certain things are done in anime. For example the crazy hairstyles in some anime come from Astro Boy whose hair was inspired by the creator's bed hair. Big eyes according to Disney are supposed to show more emotion, innocence and pureness, thus making them appealing.

Copying the superficial aspects of the work that has inspired you is terrible at teaching you why you like them.

 

[Animyr]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible artists. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

All good artists have to start from the same initial point which is drawing from real life. DA artists start from tutorials and since "anime" has the "advantage" of looking "complex" and being "simple" to draw they "learn" the style and never improve. I mean to draw a exaggerated person/squirrel/airplane you have to know how they look in the first place.

This is 100% true of a lot of "anime artists" I've met. Now, to be fair, you don't have to start from real life, but at some point you have to learn it, and I'd agree that it's the best place to start so you don't form bad habits. It's also ironic, as you mention, that often times trying to learn the "style" first impedes them from ever really mastering it. Almost all professional anime artists have some background in still life and life drawing for that very reason (though some monstrously talented ones can skip past it).

Another important facet in learning to draw is learning from the people who inspired the people who inspired you. If you like anime then you have to study Tezuka who started it all and then his influence who was Disney Disney. This teaches you why certain things are done in anime. For example the crazy hairstyles in some anime come from Astro Boy whose hair was inspired by the creator's bed hair. Big eyes according to Disney are supposed to show more emotion, innocence and pureness, thus making them appealing.

Copying the superficial aspects of the work that has inspired you is terrible at teaching you why you like them.

The general feeling I've gotten from my art classes about the anime craze (and other past crazes) is that it's okay to be inspired by someone else as long as you make the your work your own. After all, all professional art programs start with realism. Once you learn the rules you can break them. Same with copying individual styles, except nobody these days seems interested in breaking them. And if someone did, a bunch of people would start copying them. Just how it works. For centuries it was considered hip to imitate Raphael. Eventually people got tired and went back to fellow ninja turtle Da Vinci, or turned to abstracts stuff.

 

[SuperBelkar]

What generally turns me off to anime is that a lot of the plots can be boiled down to: a quest for revenge OR to prove I'm the strongest. Now I must stress that this is not all of them, but certainly enough to make up a significant portion of the base.

Furthermore, what bothers me the most is a lack of relatable characters. I was watching this one series -Claymore- which I thought started out pretty good. Here's this chick who can barely keep up with this monstrosity and is basically getting her ass kicked until someone distracts the thing and she kills it, but by the end of the series she's so frickin' over-powered that I'm not exactly sure what's a threat to her or not. She's basically operating on the level of a minor Greek god, and I've lost total investment in her character. Same issue with Van Helsing, and Dragon Ball.

I also gave another series 'gunslinger girls' a shot, but had to quit because I encountered the same problem in a different context. The characters basically acted like unfeeling robots, and I just can't bring myself to care about a plot that boils down to 'they needed to do this thing, so they did.'(over-arching plot of the series not withstanding because I wasn't able to make it past Episode 3)

Alternately, I LOVED Desert Punk, I LOVED FMA, I LOVED The Last Airbender (Yes, I know that's Amerime now ask me if I care). These were all about the characters; learning, growing, fucking up, making difficult decisions, and even though Aang and Edward basically had superpowers it was still pretty clear what the limits of their respective abilities were in any given context.

Give me more anime like that!

I agree with you about all of that, but I want to add something. The biggest thing that turns people off to anime is that it is, without any comparison, stylized. It is the only thing remotely like it, so it would be understandable why one may be turned off to the idea. It is made to entertain a group of people interested in its fashion. You can't expect everyone to like something made especially for you.

On a different note. I don't really know anything about Desert Punk or FMA, but I never liked Avatar. I always knew, from the moment I saw that bald headed child, that he would win. Hands down. Sure he made a mistake or two, but it never really caused any of his friends to die, and a show about children that has no threat of death means he could pull dumb crap all day long with no repercussions. If it is going to end with good guys win, bad guys lose, and not even asking me to think about it, I just don't see the point of investing all that time with an age group that I don't even care about. As for "character development," understand that they are kids, in ten years they won't even be the same person, so who cares about what their ideological beliefs are. Damn, this is longer than my actual point.

 

[ex275w]

I don't inherently have a problem with Anime or any sort of art style. I've always been indifferent to it myself. The problem is when half of the young adult population is ripping off the exact same style or just making very small changes because they can't come up with their own.

99% of Amercicans who draw "anime" are terrible artists. It's a trend I absolutely hate. They think because anime is somewhat more simplistic that it's easier to draw. Of course, they're wrong, and their complete lack of skill is entirely apparent to anyone with even a modicum of talent or experience. I'm not implying that anime is somehow superior to western art, but so many people post absolute garbage on DA. That said, it's not entirely about originality. There are hardly any really original artists out there, and making a significant tweak to an existing style that visually works is actually a fairly big accomplishment. It's just that so many "artists" are terrible at the style they're emulating, giving the rest of us who draw it a bad name.

All good artists have to start from the same initial point which is drawing from real life. DA artists start from tutorials and since "anime" has the "advantage" of looking "complex" and being "simple" to draw they "learn" the style and never improve. I mean to draw a exaggerated person/squirrel/airplane you have to know how they look in the first place.

This is 100% true of a lot of "anime artists" I've met. Now, to be fair, you don't have to start from real life, but at some point you have to learn it, and I'd agree that it's the best place to start so you don't form bad habits. It's also ironic, as you mention, that often times trying to learn the "style" first impedes them from ever really mastering it. Almost all professional anime artists have some background in still life and life drawing for that very reason (though some monstrously talented ones can skip past it).

Another important facet in learning to draw is learning from the people who inspired the people who inspired you. If you like anime then you have to study Tezuka who started it all and then his influence who was Disney Disney. This teaches you why certain things are done in anime. For example the crazy hairstyles in some anime come from Astro Boy whose hair was inspired by the creator's bed hair. Big eyes according to Disney are supposed to show more emotion, innocence and pureness, thus making them appealing.

Copying the superficial aspects of the work that has inspired you is terrible at teaching you why you like them.

The general feeling I've gotten from my art classes about the anime craze (and other past crazes) is that it's okay to be inspired by someone else as long as you make the your work your own. After all, all professional art programs start with realism. Once you learn the rules you can break them. Same with copying individual styles, except nobody these days seems interested in breaking them. And if someone did, a bunch of people would start copying them. Just how it works. For centuries it was considered hip to imitate Raphael. Eventually people got tired and went back to fellow ninja turtle Da Vinci, or turned to abstracts stuff.

Oh yeah I totally forgot about tweaking or "breaking" the style you like to fit your own aesthetics Yeah the final point in learning from other people and the people who inspired them is to eventually make the flavor your own.