Poll: Transhumanism: How Far Would You Take It?

[Advocate44]

6, no question. As long as I survive the transition into something with more potential, I don't much care what happens to this sack of meat I'm stuck in now. I majored in BME for this kind of thing.

 

[God'sFist]

I would go full body swap but my brain stays untouched, I prefer my brain to an electronic one. But being able to just have super speed and strength as well that could come in handy.

 

[Kashim117]

Five without a doubt, too much of a GitS fan ha.

 

[The Ditz]

If brain hacks a la Ghost in the Shell don't exist defenently option 3 heavy augmentation + option 5 partial mind conversion. I don't think I could choose 4, I'd probably miss my digestive and reproductive systems...

Although, while I've (unfortunately) never read any Lovecraft, maybe as option 6, I won't need or care for my oh so human joys... plus I'd bet I'd be far more resilient to hacks.

 

[Raikas]

I'd vote 6 - who doesn't want to be an abomination, right? But then as a double amputee I'm already somewhere between 2 and 3, so those lower choices aren't as interesting for me.

the problem I have is the one well raised in Deus Ex what happens to those who cannot afford augmentation?

That's already an issue now - coverage for glasses or prosthetics varies hugely depending on your country (or your insurance plan). And even when it comes to more optional things; I've heard people make class-judgements on people with bad teeth based on the assumption that if they came from more well off families they'd have had them fixed as children.

 

[frizzlebyte]

I think I could go for Full Body Conversion, though that would depend on how much my new self would look like me. I suspect I might go totally bonkers if I looked in the mirror and saw some thing staring back at me.

But yeah, get a new robotic heart and replace these asthmatic lungs of mine? Sounds good to me.

 

[The Event]

My body may be cybernetic but my mind remains human.
So I guess that makes me a 4.

I want any body to look and feel human & be capable of all normal human activities and sensations. Something like a terminator but with an organic brain housed in the skull instead of a computer.
Though I'd also like my brain to be protected and repaired by nanotechnology to prevent it wearing out.
So maybe that's a 4.5

 

[WereGentleman]

Gotta go with #6. I doubt I would start off as an entity with galaxy spanning intelligence; it's more likely my perspective would change over the course of eternity as I continued to learn more and more about the universe, and whatever lies beyond it. I'm okay with that.

 

[JagermanXcell]

How far would you go? I'd say my "limit" is pictured right here.

Spoiler: image

If we're using MGR pics to make a point, my limit would definitely be

Spoiler

I other words a combination of # 2 and 3.

I like my body the way it is in terms of look so increasing my strength, durability, intelligence, and stamina genetically or via exoskeleton would be sweet. As for Major Augmentation, definitely my organs, keep em all invincible so I can die of old age like a badass.

And since I now have all the spare time and power in the world to do whatever (including but not limited to benching buildings to work up a good sweat), lets say screw my right arm make it cybernetic, train in kenjutsu and kendo at a Yagyu Shinkage-ryu school, so that I can sharpen my skills... dispense justice to those who deserve it such as... Outlaws, Deperados ect. ect.

 

[Heronblade]

You don't get it do you? Cybernetic augmentation is a direct result of biomedical research, the two are one and the same. The first and foremost reason for cybernetics is in terms of fixing medical problems such as blindness or muscular dystrophy. The fact that it can be used for so much more is just a bonus.

In addition, there are only two methods on the table to reliably cure/prevent cancer, heavy genetic modification, or cybernetic modification. There is no other prospective method that has a good chance of reliably solving our body's tendency to turn cannibal on us.

As for the rest, speaking as someone who tinkers often, my hands have never been good enough. Not nearly enough precision and too little grip among other things. I can indeed counter some of these problems if I have the perfect tool for the task at hand, but that approach requires multiple times my body mass in specialized equipment, much of which is awkward and slow to use. The right tool also never seems to be around when needed.

And as for my eyes, every couple of days I get up and jam bits of polymer onto them. I do this because I (for some incredibly weird reason) don't like wandering around in a mostly blind haze as nature apparently intended. I can also tell you that even with perfect vision, we are all missing out. There is an incredible world out there that we will never see for ourselves, simply because a low quality nonadjustable camera feed covering less than 3.5x10^-26%, or 0.0000000000000000000000000035% of the light spectrum was "good enough" for our evolutionary path.

That's getting creepily into the very territory Deus Ex explores as a central theme. The title is Latin for "god of the machine" which refers directly to the terrible endings of ancient Greek plays where a god played by an actor would be lowered onto the stage by a machine and would solve all the problems in one go; but if we take the term literally, as the game does, it refers to the almost worship-like view people have of technology. They wish to turn themselves into gods through machine implants, and view technology as a god-like entity capable of perfecting people. Wanting to be perfect and spurning the natural body is exactly that. It is hardly more worse than other animal bodies, but because people have this bizarre desire for constant progression and domination of nature (and the subversive self, and here the whole mind/body split debate comes in), being human is no longer good enough. Which in turn opens up a whole debate about the fear of devolution or being taken over by another species, and the body being seen as basic and instinctive, animal and driven by emotions, which is an extremely old fashioned view.

Anyway, this very debate is ongoing constantly. I still stand by the 'only when I am in desperate need of assistance' view; my daily grind hardly requires beyond-necessary vision to go to a supermarket or something. It's also a fear of identity, really. Are you human if you don't have human parts? Is being a human a bad thing? If my body is composed of parts created by corporations that can power off my body due to bad security or monetary issues, then who has the real right of ownership of myself? Where am I in this machine? Better to just stick with what you know to not have that kind of horrible confusion.

A more accurate translation of the phrase deus ex machina is actually "god from an artifice", but that's rather beside the point.

Discounting the issues that are present in that fictional world but would not be present in the reasonably handled real life scenario (namely the drug dependencies and ability to hack people's minds en masse), the only significant problem explored by Deus Ex is ultimately social. The ability to go past normal human limitations will change human society, and there inevitably will be conflict over the issue, mostly in terms of ethical arguments between people like you and me. However, you know what? We'll adapt, and fairly quickly, as we have to every major upheaval to daily life humanity has lived through.

Concerning that opinion of human nature, the viewpoint that the human body is somehow precious or special compared to that of other animals is actually much older by far. It is also far less accurate. Base instinct plays a huge role in our day to day lives. From the fact that males I do not know have a hard time looking me in the eye to the tendency of our young to be barely controllable showoffs.

Bear in mind however, I do not advocate the use of such tech without quite stiff regulations. The average Joe does not need to be able to punch through walls or have a rocket launcher shoulder attachment. The potential problems with faulty/hackable tech must also be avoided. I do advocate adjustments that are not strictly necessary, but nonetheless can significantly improve life. Supporting/replacing my eyes for instance. Do I strictly need to do anything of the sort? No, while they are defective, the problems can be managed without too many issues. but on the other hand, doing so would be a major asset for my job, and would also improve my enjoyment of life. So, with that in mind, why not?

As for your questions:
Are you human if you don't have human parts?
-I define humanity in terms of one's mind, not this lump of meat supporting said mind, so my answer is yes, almost no matter what modifications are made. However, even going by a definition requiring that there be no mechanical parts whatsoever, an augmented human is still a sophont that deserves the same basic respect as any other person.
Is being a human a bad thing?
-no, but there's nothing wrong with choosing not to stick to the original human model either.
If my body is composed of parts created by corporations that can power off my body due to bad security or monetary issues, then who has the real right of ownership of myself?
-don't be dumb enough to let someone else own your body parts and you won't have to ask yourself that. Personally, I'd make the leasing of installed cybernetics illegal anyways (at least in terms of primary components, plug-n-play type modules that can be removed with no ill effects are a different matter)
Where am I in this machine?
-Where are you in your biological body?

 

[Prismwind]

I'm going 6 here, just because it fits best. Living cells have a lifespan... I wanna be immortal and that means nothing that's organic in the traditional sense left. I like the idea of a core that can be switched out between different robotic bodies for different tasks, or at least a body with parts that can be replaced and switched out. Similar to a pod from EVE online, except with bodies instead of ships and the pod IS me at that point.

Never dying of old age and infinite upgrade potential with time.

 

[TehCookie]

As of right now I'd only take a 2 or 3, but I'm healthy and young. As I get older and my body starts to fail I'd go more machine to a 6. Once my mind starts failing, it's time to die. If people could live forever the world would be overpopulated.

 

[LightningFast]

Option 2. To be frank, the only things I'd like to change are my height and vision problems. Feel pretty good about everything else.

 

[TWRule]

To surpass existing physiological limitations and inconveniences.

To what end? What's important enough to bother with it for you?

As treatment for encumbering and/or degenerative conditions. Huntington?s disease, Alzheimer?s (other forms of dementia,) blindness, deafness, and other myriad conditions. To provide protection against environmental hazards, ionising-radiation, toxins, drowning, etc.

I'm not counting things like this - these are obviously extreme situations, as it would extremely risky - my question was why someone would *want* to do this (provided they weren't placed in such a situation) - that's what everyone answering this thread seems to be concerned with...

"... it is certainly a quick and easy way to learn how to speak new languages, operate machinery, etc. On the other hand, interferance with the mind tends to cause personality disorders, problems with memory recall and occasionally total mental breakdown... repeated re-use accelerates the degenerative process."[/i]
- Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader: Technology in the Imperium

Yeah, I'm not seeing how this helps your argument, fiction or no. Frankly, I'm not convinced that consciousness works like transhumanists like to think it does (that is, how it works in sci fi).

 

[ezaviel]

I'd go option two voluntarily / unnecessarily.

But if medically required due to injury or for longevity, I would go all the way up to 6 as needed

 

[iblis666]

6 and 7 since I would want a entirely human body but completely infused with nano tech that keeps a up to date copy of my personality and memories in it. I would also use the nanites as memory storage among other things that you might think of if you have read a cyberpunk novel or hardcore scifi novel. Also if i was able to I would totally use an energy matrix to store my personality as a secondary back up kind of like an ascended being in stargate.

 

[TheUsername0131]

To surpass existing physiological limitations and inconveniences.

To what end? What's important enough to bother with it for you?

As treatment for encumbering and/or degenerative conditions. Huntington?s disease, Alzheimer?s (other forms of dementia,) blindness, deafness, and other myriad conditions. To provide protection against environmental hazards, ionising-radiation, toxins, drowning, etc.

I'm not counting things like this - these are obviously extreme situations, as it would extremely risky - my question was why someone would *want* to do this (provided they weren't placed in such a situation) - that's what everyone answering this thread seems to be concerned with...

"... it is certainly a quick and easy way to learn how to speak new languages, operate machinery, etc. On the other hand, interferance with the mind tends to cause personality disorders, problems with memory recall and occasionally total mental breakdown... repeated re-use accelerates the degenerative process."
- Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader: Technology in the Imperium

Yeah, I'm not seeing how this helps your argument, fiction or no. Frankly, I'm not convinced that consciousness works like transhumanists like to think it does (that is, how it works in sci fi).

It was in no way intended to help my presumed agenda, an argument would imply we were having a dispute. There is no dispute between us. That remark was intended to be humorous, by pointing out the fine print. All occupations have their hazards.

Your questions would require me to disclose my medical history. Something often regarded as private. However you've already answered one of your own questions. You asked, "provided they weren't placed in such a situation." My decision is based on that criteria you've decided on exempting from your question. If others should make that choice out of vanity, or on a whim, then that is their choice.

Should you still be involved, it would be prudent for us to continue this discussion in private messages. This thread is meant for merriment, not for melancholy.

 

[ShipofFools]

I'm hoping for a biological, technological, psychedelic and energized symbiosis that ends in a pan-galactic hive mind, indistinguishable from gods.

 

[Heronblade]

6 and 7 since I would want a entirely human body but completely infused with nano tech that keeps a up to date copy of my personality and memories in it. I would also use the nanites as memory storage among other things that you might think of if you have read a cyberpunk novel or hardcore scifi novel. Also if i was able to I would totally use an energy matrix to store my personality as a secondary back up kind of like an ascended being in stargate.

Yeah, there's a bit of a problem with that idea. A backup copy of you is not actually you. It is a new person with the copied memories and personality of someone else.

Let me put it another way, lets say you are helping test a new Star Trek style teleporter. Bright flashes occur, but nothing seems to happen. Before you can ask what went wrong, a call comes in. Its you, calling from the teleporter's destination, saying that you arrived safely. The only thing that went "wrong" with the teleport was that it failed to kill you and destroy the body so that your double doesn't have you competing for the same life.

Heh, come to think of it, if a new soul is created for each clone, the Star Trek afterlife must be a very confusing place. (and potentially quite horrifying, with a couple thousand Wesley Crushers running around...)

 

[Dragonbums]

I picked 2.

I love my body, and everything organic about it. There is nothing wrong with enhancing some features to make life a bit easier like better eyesight. However, I don't want to begin altering or replacing my body parts. That to me is a bit too much.