Poll: Using exploits in games, Cheating?

[ph0b0s123]

So the question is with all the bans in multiplayer games recently due to people using bugs in the game, do you think that using bugs with the game is cheating?

Note: We are not taking about hacks, aimbots, etc here or any other external code used to change the game. We are talking about issues in the game that can be exploited.

Options:
A: Yes people who using them are cheaters and deserve the permanent bans being handed out.

B: Yes, it's cheating, but does not deserve the kind of bans being handed out

C: It's not cheating, it's up to the developers to patch these bugs. Gamers play the game that they are presented with.

D: It is cheating and the punishments so far are not harsh enough.

Or another option you would like to suggest.


My take:

I very much think that gamers play the games they are presented with and that they will push the envelope of what is possible in that game. I don't have a problem with this. If developers don;t like the way their game is being played, the onus is on them to patch it rather than handing bans to stop behaviour because they cannot be bother to repair the issue. Patching is also good because it punished players who have not developed skills to play the game normally as they will be dog meat when those exploits are removed. Sometimes it is hard to know what is considered and exploit and what isn't until you get a ban.

I support good moderation in servers that means exploits are informed that they are using an exploit that is not permitted on the server and can be booted if the continue after being warned. I don't not support being banned for the whole game and having other games that have been brought via the same on-line systems being broken also. That should only be reserved for people using hacks, if at all.

Also the idea that exploits are unfair on other plays is rubbish as these exploits are available to all players, so the playing field is still level.

Myself I don't really use exploits much as I would rather have gaming skills that cannot be taken away when the game is patched and a exploit is removed, but that's me.

I think using exploits in games is a time honoured tradition. Movies like the Matrix demonstrate this idea by Neo and his comrades using exploits in the Matrix simulation to pull of superhuman feats. The movie would not work today as whenever they used an exploit like Neo flying, they would just get banned....

 

[Iseeu]

Hm, tough one, I would say exploitation is good or bad, depending on the impact it has on the community (note that this is only for mmos). No-one really cares about single player exploits.

An example of an exploit adding to the community is Wall-Jumping in Transformice. In this game, you can jump anytime you stop having a downwards motion. If you hit a wall in a particular way, you can jump again. Do this several times and you can ascend a wall. The developers of this game saw this but didn't fix it; The community now accepts it is an exploit, but everyone knows how to do it now (many now see it as 'skill').

There are several exploits that can hurt the community (I'm pretty sure you can think of your own). Many games however (for example, MOBA) is based around the idea that you get any/every advantage you can. If you play fairly you will lose. Some things like ganking a lane 2v1 or stealing an epic creature will win you the game. The main motto for this is: If it works, use it. If it doesn't, adapt.

Exploits are seen as a form of cheating, or just a technique that is effective but easy to do. Another word for this is cheap. Like for example, Xerath in LOL, you hide in a bush and use your extreme range to shred opponents. This may be seen as 'exploiting' his range, but it is just tactics.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

eh honestly it depends..

some exploits are insanely OP that basically guarantee you kills? fuck that. (the javeline glitch in mw2 was like that on some maps.)

most exploits aren't too big of a deal, but just in like sports, there is a fine line of being too cheap, that will be frowned highly upon, and there is some that is perfectly okay to "play on" with like its part of the game.

 

[Thaius]

I certainly think developers should fix these things when they come up, but the fact is, we cannot expect the code in a game to be perfect. Because it's impossible. There will always be bugs, there will always be exploits. The developer can do their best to eliminate some of the most pervasive of these, but they will never get them all. There is, and will always be, an extent to which it is up to the player to have a bit of honor and refuse to be a douchebag who uses exploits instead of actually getting good at the game.

So yeah, if people are using glitches to their advantage, the developer should certainly try to fix them, but until then people who are exploiting these glitches deserve some form of punishment.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

This is a matter of definition, not opinion. By definition, exploiting and cheating are two different things. This may not be important to most people, but as a card counter, the definition of the word "cheating" is extremely important to me.

Personally though, I don't use exploits, and I avoid playing with people who do. I used to play in groups in DDO that would bug Arraetrikos, but that was in the past. I didn't really have much of a choice in the matter, and my views have since changed.

On the other hand, I don't preach at MMO players, and I don't care what other people do. Most decent MMOs are quick to patch exploits when they are found, and if they don't they deserve to have players take advantage of them.

 

[BlindedHunter]

It's all playing the game as given.
Players need to accept that patches may remove these exploits if they see fit, but banning for it is typically ridiculous considering competitive games are just that: competitive. Who can really expect their players to, in an impersonal online environment, uphold sportsman-like decencies when there is winning to be done?
At the same time, while banning is often inappropriate I'd not say all exploits shouldn't be met with a ban, as some can be clearly malicious, and others may push the definition in the wrong directions.

 

[seraphy]

Since not everyone knows about these exploits playing field is not level. There are also people that refuse to use exploits that are clearly ones.

So yes if you use bugs for your advantage in multiplayer you do deserve to be banned from multiplayer part of the game.

 

[Palademon]

This is a matter of definition, not opinion. By definition, exploiting and cheating are two different things. This may not be important to most people, but as a card counter, the definition of the word "cheating" is extremely important to me.

I don't get why card counting is not allowed, since it requires skill to do, and you can't prove someone's doing it. People just don't want to lose their money.

My opinion is that it's stupid to ban people for using something the game gave them. In the same way I think it's stupid to hate somebody for using a gun in an FPS that supposedly makes it unfair. Well then, how about everyone use it? Why put a deliberate handicap on yourself by not using it if you can't win without it?

I get very angry when I hear people have been banned for something developers can't be bothered to patch.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

This is a matter of definition, not opinion. By definition, exploiting and cheating are two different things. This may not be important to most people, but as a card counter, the definition of the word "cheating" is extremely important to me.

I don't get why card counting is not allowed, since it requires skill to do, and you can't prove someone's doing it. People just don't want to lose their money.

My opinion is that it's stupid to ban people for using something the game gave them. In the same way I think it's stupid to hate somebody for using a gun in an FPS that supposedly makes it unfair. Well then, how about everyone use it? Why put a deliberate handicap on yourself by not using it if you can't win without it?

I get very angry when I hear people have been banned for something developers can't be bothered to patch.

The only reason casinos don't want people to count cards is because it gives the player an edge. It isn't actually illegal or considered cheating, but Casinos are private property, so they can kick out anyone for any reason.

I'v never played particularly high stakes, so I don't think anyone cares. I also use tactics to disguise what Im doing. Unfortunately there's no room for the kind of bet increasing I'd like to do when the count gets really high.

 

[MisterDyslexo]

I went with the second option, since it was closest to my opinion. I don't believe anybody should be banned for using an exploit. Punished? Yes. Banned? Nope. If they did nothing to alter the game, then the developers don't really have anybody to blame but themselves. If they want to put an end to it, they can either fix it, or find a punishment for it that isn't as extreme as a ban. Take the recent Battlefield 3 boosting. How about they wipe the stats of the boosters, and force them to make an update that basically makes them play the game without something for "x" amount of time. It means that they actually have to be punished to continue playing rather than them going to play Modern Warfare 3 for a few weeks and giving money to direct competitors. How about making every the mini-map have them pointed out to the enemy team with the word "Booster" atop of them so they become an easy target or something. Something that makes it frustrating for them to play, a frustration that other players feel when the exploit is used against them-an attempt to create empathy essentially. Won't work for everybody, but I think it could stop a lot of people, and in more than just that one game.

 

[ElPatron]

eh honestly it depends..

some exploits are insanely OP that basically guarantee you kills? fuck that. (the javeline glitch in mw2 was like that on some maps.)

I think that is glitching because it involves using something in a way it was not intended to.

But exploits like capping your FPS to be able to achieve longer jumps? That's legit for me.


The game has hitbox glitches and people bunnyhop to take advantage? Punish the perpetrators, fix the game.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

eh honestly it depends..

some exploits are insanely OP that basically guarantee you kills? fuck that. (the javeline glitch in mw2 was like that on some maps.)

I think that is glitching because it involves using something in a way it was not intended to.

But exploits like capping your FPS to be able to achieve longer jumps? That's legit for me.


The game has hitbox glitches and people bunnyhop to take advantage? Punish the perpetrators, fix the game.

true, and yeah i would say that is fair in your opinion, i do hate the hitbox glitch mixed with bunnyhops, that got very annoying and very old VERY fast when games would be flooded with people who used it.

 

[zehydra]

[HEADING=2]Let's take WoW, for an example.[/HEADING]

The greatest exploit of them all: Farming Foror's Compendium of Dragon slaying, and Thorium, in Dire Maul.

You ventured in to a rarely played, extremely difficult instance in search of it's greatest treasure. You were doing it on your own. You went in the door, waited for the perfect moment when all the patrols were out of the place, then sprinted around a corner and jumped on to a ledge just a few inches wide.

If you were a lower level than about 58 you would be noticed by mobs down below, sending a flood of vicious enemies that would on their own be a challenge for five copies of you. You run along the ledge, make a random ass jump onto the top of some random column, jump again (if you screw the jump you're as good as dead) and you make your way through the instance this way, searching for an area that boasts relatively weak enemies but which nonetheless can drop the special item.

You kill the enemies. They have a one in a hundred chance of dropping the item. Invariably, they don't. And you have to run out of the instance, reset it, and run back in, doing the whole thing again, over and over, until you find an item that you can sell for about 5 times the amount of gold as any other thing in the game.

Tell me that exploit is not just as exciting, challenging and enthralling as the game itself?

indeed it is, but an exploit like that is a pretty rare occurrence in the multiplayer setting

 

[The Lugz]

So the question is with all the bans in multiplayer games recently due to people using bugs in the game, do you think that using bugs with the game is cheating?

using an exploit to get a goal you couldn't otherwise is obviously cheating
obviously...

however, the company's in control of said game need to man up and realize it's their fault they didn't beta test the problem out
someone using an exploit shouldn't be banned but they should have whatever they achieved with it taken away from them because they got it illegitimately

just my 2c, ofc.

I still resent that I got in trouble with GMs in WoW for breaking in to the Mount Hyjal zone - finding hidden zones isn't wrong.

hehe, wow.. ah yes.. wow.. you wouldn't believe the places i managed to get to in that game
nogenfogger got me into a dancing troll zone near felwood ( that you can now freely enter )
a level 1 priest with spirit enchants has enough passive health regen to beat out fatigue
( it used to be healing, now you can just walk to the end of the world with health regen )
you could 'disconnect' your client by running it in wondowed mode and clicking off the client after inputting a move command and lag through anything you wanted, whenever you wanted and npc's couldn't find / target you ( subject to the disconnect timer - also fixed after classic )
you could get to gm island on any boat / ferry / zepplin with a script
there are so many.. even old AQ and the mage blink bug into deadmines and stratholme..
even wrath had a massive exploit where a priest could levitate walk anywhere, up walls round mountains..
wow was the most exploited game i know of..
one rogue taught me how to restert a server.. in the wee old days you could trade a rogue poisoned dagger that hadnt been poisoned, and poison it as you hold it in the trade window, aslong as the other person accepted it would restert the server, that got patched pretty quick..

the mage pom/netherwind infinate pyroblast bug.. shoot 20 pyroblasts at somone in 2 seconds
err.. reckoning bug, do 1234567898765432 septillion damage on your next attack and solo a boss once a day..
so, many, exploits.

 

[Dansen]

Funny you should mention it. I am currently using a glitch in Dark souls that lets me get infinite souls(experience).

I am using this glitch on a character that is primarily intended for pvp, but I would have to grind my way through most of the game to make him suitable for multiplayer, but now I can save time in order to have fun sooner. Is this glitch wrong?

 

[meryatathagres]

In singleplayer, do whatever you want. Although you'll be robbing yourself if you exploit bugs.
In Multiplayer, yes ban for anyone who uses exploits. Discover an exploit. test it couple times, then report it. Anything beyond that warrants a lenghty ban. Especially in MMOs.

 

[Zen Toombs]

As has been stated earlier by others, my vote depends on the exploit. Some are okay -a few even enhance the game- but some are not so good.