Poll: Videogames and Women

[Hugga_Bear]

Well, look at the men.

It's only sexist if it runs one way so for now I'm with 'room for improvement' but by no means is it terrible. The males are almost always stunning or at the very least physically impressive specimens with jaws that could shatter concrete and pecs that would pass for breasts at a glance.
Good or bad we build these characters to look beautiful because we see them all the time. When you're given the choice between spending time with pretty and funny and ugly and funny you know who gets the vote? Pretty. Why? Cos we're built that way. It's pretty simple stuff, we like good looks, we like attractive and so games give us beautiful men and beautiful women to ogle.

Unfortunately they take the women too far. It's one thing to be a looker, it's another to be dressed like a slut. By all means make your characters beautiful but please make them a little restrained too, ya know? Even if you're going for sexy I personally find those who are suggestive and clever more interesting than those who go "LOOK BOOBIES BOUNCE!!!" *jump jump jump*.

So on the one hand, be careful pushing it too far, having attractive people is an entirely different fight (and one which is fairly well addressed in larger RPG's at least). It's when we have obviously poorly represented females. That said I'd take sexualised and competent over pathetic, stereotyped and wearing a modest dress. I'd rather not have such a stupid choice mind.

 

[CaptainKarma]

-snip-

It's a game don't bring real life logic into it.

Ivy is immortal and is pretty much a mage so she can heal any and all scars. She really doesn't have to worry about dying.

If you're trying to pull REALISM on Mass Effect 2 then Shep should have died in the prologue. They have the tech to revive Shep from the condition he was in, scars and bullets wounds ain't shit. So you can pretty much wear whatever as long as body is still intact they can bring you back if they wanted too.[/quote]

This is all handwavey justification for putting women in ridiculous outfits.

Of course, as you're denying the very existence of objectification there's pretty much no way we can convince you that there's a problem here.

 

[TheDooD]

snip

Because they're apart of a game they are already an object, so your protecting the rights of those that are already objects to begin with. Objectification in the real world goes both ways, there's nothing wrong with it. It's apart of attraction you can't escape it and you sure as hell will never get rid of it.

 

[CaptainKarma]

-snip-

It's a game don't bring real life logic into it.

Ivy is immortal and is pretty much a mage so she can heal any and all scars. She really doesn't have to worry about dying.

If you're trying to pull REALISM on Mass Effect 2 then Shep should have died in the prologue. They have the tech to revive Shep from the condition he was in, scars and bullets wounds ain't shit. So you can pretty much wear whatever as long as body is still intact they can bring you back if they wanted too.

This is all handwavey justification for putting women in ridiculous outfits.

Of course, as you're denying the very existence of objectification there's pretty much no way we can convince you that there's a problem here.

Because they're apart of a game they are an object, so your protecting the rights of those that are already objects to begin with. Objectification in the real world goes both ways, there's nothing wrong with it. It's apart of attraction you can't escape it and you sure as hell will never get rid of it.[/quote]

Are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument?

I dont give a shit about Ivy's rights, she's non-existent. The problem is that the game is presenting an unrealistic and sexist view of what women should look like. She does not exist as a character, she exists as wank-fodder. This is off-putting, misogynistic and only serves to further ghettoise gaming as a hobby.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Well, they aren't the first person to ever use THAT logic before either. Do you have a point?

Do you want to know what the difference is?

The material behind the links you didn't follow? Those are actual arguments.

Your derails, by contrast, are not. In fact, they are knee-jerk attempts to avoid any argument altogether by pretending that there is no issue at all.

In short: your privilege is showing.

Are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument?

I dont give a shit about Ivy's rights, she's non-existent. The problem is that the game is presenting an unrealistic and sexist view of what women should look like. She does not exist as a character, she exists as wank-fodder. This is off-putting, misogynistic and only serves to further ghettoise gaming as a hobby.

I can just about guarantee that you're going to have to explain that there's a difference between admiration and objectification, and why the latter is insulting.

 

[TheDooD]

snip

dang ninja'ed, I gotta think up something better now.

 

[TheDooD]

-snip-

It's a game don't bring real life logic into it.

Ivy is immortal and is pretty much a mage so she can heal any and all scars. She really doesn't have to worry about dying.

If you're trying to pull REALISM on Mass Effect 2 then Shep should have died in the prologue. They have the tech to revive Shep from the condition he was in, scars and bullets wounds ain't shit. So you can pretty much wear whatever as long as body is still intact they can bring you back if they wanted too.

This is all handwavey justification for putting women in ridiculous outfits.

Of course, as you're denying the very existence of objectification there's pretty much no way we can convince you that there's a problem here.

Because they're apart of a game they are an object, so your protecting the rights of those that are already objects to begin with. Objectification in the real world goes both ways, there's nothing wrong with it. It's apart of attraction you can't escape it and you sure as hell will never get rid of it.

Are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument?

I dont give a shit about Ivy's rights, she's non-existent. The problem is that the game is presenting an unrealistic and sexist view of what women should look like. She does not exist as a character, she exists as wank-fodder. This is off-putting, misogynistic and only serves to further ghettoise gaming as a hobby.[/quote]

You DON'T give a shit about her rights then why in the hell are you so hard up on what she wears. You know you just completely fucked over your whole argument. Ivy is a character and she dresses sexy. She's only wank fodder if you want to fap to her. You can fap to any girl you find attractive that's a cop out. Gaming is a hobby, like reading, movies, plays, etc. All those have some sleazy works and some people like it. So who are you to say they can't enjoy it.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Snip

Out of those games, I've only played Mass Effect. However, i'd like to point something out:

The equivalent of Miranda, but for the ladies.

A nerdy female character who you never see the face nor body of.

So, Mass Effect 2 has eye-candy for the girls, as well as having a shy, nerdy character as the most popular romance choice. I'd say the gaming industry isn't doing too bad.

 

[CaptainKarma]

-snip-

It's a game don't bring real life logic into it.

Ivy is immortal and is pretty much a mage so she can heal any and all scars. She really doesn't have to worry about dying.

If you're trying to pull REALISM on Mass Effect 2 then Shep should have died in the prologue. They have the tech to revive Shep from the condition he was in, scars and bullets wounds ain't shit. So you can pretty much wear whatever as long as body is still intact they can bring you back if they wanted too.

This is all handwavey justification for putting women in ridiculous outfits.

Of course, as you're denying the very existence of objectification there's pretty much no way we can convince you that there's a problem here.

Because they're apart of a game they are an object, so your protecting the rights of those that are already objects to begin with. Objectification in the real world goes both ways, there's nothing wrong with it. It's apart of attraction you can't escape it and you sure as hell will never get rid of it.

Are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument?

I dont give a shit about Ivy's rights, she's non-existent. The problem is that the game is presenting an unrealistic and sexist view of what women should look like. She does not exist as a character, she exists as wank-fodder. This is off-putting, misogynistic and only serves to further ghettoise gaming as a hobby.

You DON'T give a shit about her rights then why in the hell are you so hard up on what she wears. You know you just completely fucked over your whole argument. Ivy is a character and she dresses sexy. She's only wank fodder if you want to fap to her. You can fap to any girl you find attractive that's a cop out. Gaming is a hobby, like reading, movies, plays, etc. All those have some sleazy works and some people like it. So who are you to say they can't enjoy it.[/quote]

Wait wait....how have I fucked over my argument? Tell me what you think my problem is, cos it's sure as hell not what I think it is.

 

[Iron Lightning]

The drive to compete and competitive multiplayer are masculine things. Thus people will revel any form of femininity that arises in those situations.

Amusingly enough, some of the most eager PvPers in my guild are rather "girlie." But I digress.

Well, MMORPGs are a little more egalitarian with their PvP since you can play in a healing, support, or crowd control role which is also why you're less likely to be called a fag in World of Warcraft than in Modern Warfare 3. I expect that a few of your guildmates play DPS though, and I say that when they do that they are expressing their masculine side. Nearly everyone is a mixture of masculine and feminine qualities.

If you were playing a rousing game of Halo and someone started complaining because they got killed in a fair fight would you not be annoyed?

If I was the one who'd killed them, I'd probably say "you lost; get over it" and leave it at that.

I'd be a lot more annoyed at someone who tried to tip the scales in their direction, lost, and whined about it. Or who was on a team, fucked up, and blamed everyone else.

Of course you would, because in my hypothetical example the complainer would be exhibiting the feminine qualities of sensitivity and anti-competitiveness which is inappropriate in such a context.

I'm not certain that you are so lucky. Obviously those women who share your status of not being routinely harassed would not be very vocal in proclaiming such. With that in mind, consider the possibility that a vocal minority of rightly outraged women have made their plight seem much more commonplace than it actual is.

Could be, but it seems just a bit too widespread for that to be entirely the case.[/quote]
That's definitely believable. However, I should state that we ought not care so much about the sexist assholes who happen to play videogames. This problem seems to me to be mostly unsolvable. You can't fix stupid.

The bigger issue is the still widespread but thankfully decreasing trend of objectifying women. I wouldn't say that the medium shouldn't have any smut, though, in fact I think the best way to solve this issue is to have more smut. If we were to become more open-minded about porn games then we could channel all this sexual energy away from where it's inappropriate.

 

[FamoFunk]

Couldn't care what I'm portrayed like tbh. As long as I have my games and I can play them I'm happy.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

So it's this same thread we've had 40,000 times now? And I have a deft feeling that the pic of Miranda's ass was some kind of inter-office joke at Bioware...

 

[TheDooD]

So it's this same thread we've had 40,000 times now? And I have a deft feeling that the pic of Miranda's ass was some kind of inter-office joke at Bioware...

I think it is cuz I seen the 4th body type for human female troopers in SWTOR and holy shit that was a huge ass.

 

[FalloutJack]

-Captain Karma? Seriously?-

Misogynism is the hatred of women, ergo no. The gaming industry and indeed ANY industry will do many things for money, not out of any dislike of women. The things you are irked about are over-reactions, much like anyone claiming that violence in video games equals more violent people among the players. Again, these businesses are in it for the MONEY, bottom line. It's nothing personal.

 

[josemlopes]

I've been trying to get my sister into videogames lately (need an extra player for my HoN team), but one thing that's putting her off is the utterly reprehensible attitude that games, and gamers, have towards women.

We've all laughed at the Evony ads. But even mainstream games like

Spoiler: Mass Effect

Spoiler: Soul Calibur

Spoiler: Ninja Gaiden

treat their female characters like...pieces of meat to be drooled over. Is this really the image we should be presenting to the world? The press is quick to label games as juvenile adolescent male fantasies and our response is to EMBRACE this criticism? What the hell?

And the community is barely any better. Friends of mine regularly keep their identities secret (unless teamspeak is involved) because of the torrent of abuse they get online. Don't believe me? Check out the fabulous http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ to see the vitriol lady gamers get.

This attitude is PERVASIVE. Look at Battlefield 3, banning women from its launch party (rather than telling the men "Dude, don't be a creep"), the creator of a fighting game (forget which, MvC maybe? I've lost the link) discussing, in a panel about female character design, which of his creations he'd like to have sex with.

Games have an image problem. But we don't want to fix it, we're happy in our little corner with our boobalicious characters and internalised misogyny.

We can be so much BETTER than this. How can we expect gaming to be taken seriously as an artform, and as a hobby, when we're happy to let this behaviour run unchecked?

This may help a bit

Although I must say, the terrific mo-cap and voice acting does help a lot to make the characters beliveble, its not just the looks. Go play the demo and you will be impressed by the quality of the characters, its almost the only strong point of the game (it isnt a bad game, its just that the "story" aspect of the game is just WAY better then the gameplay)

 

[Chemical Alia]

There's always Cinematic Mod and a "few others" to fix that mistake, it's still the same character after that mind you, saying and doing the same things, but apparently because it has *boobs* now it's a bad thing.

Cause some of you people won't be satisfied till every single female character in video games resembles some sort of antropomorphic primordial ooze instead of an attractive human being, cause it makes it so so *wrong* if it does.

Wonder how many of the women and men who argue against it here would dress sexy and form-fitting if they could actually pull it off instead of argueing about it on some website xD

If by "fixed" you mean throwing needlessly up-res'ed and tacky textures, pointless assets that detract from and ruin the carefully planned and well-researched atmosphere and art direction, then yes, that's what Cinematic Mod does. That Alyx model is a hilarious example of everything that's wrong with the subject of women in games. It strips out everything that her look is intended to convey to the player about her personality.

This argument may be a bit too far over your head if you think it actually boils down to jealousy over video game characters' looks or personal insecurity and is not really worth discussing then.

 

[Emergent System]

And the community is barely any better. Friends of mine regularly keep their identities secret (unless teamspeak is involved) because of the torrent of abuse they get online. Don't believe me? Check out the fabulous http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ to see the vitriol lady gamers get.

This attitude is PERVASIVE. Look at Battlefield 3, banning women from its launch party (rather than telling the men "Dude, don't be a creep"), the creator of a fighting game (forget which, MvC maybe? I've lost the link) discussing, in a panel about female character design, which of his creations he'd like to have sex with.

Eh, the portrayal of women in gaming could be better, just like the portrayal of men (though there tend to be more men, so we get to see more idiotic stereotypes for men than for women, though they're not any better), but it's not like books, comics, movies, TV series, etc, are any better at portraying either gender...

And those stupid comments in http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ look perfectly normal to me... for either gender. I read the first 4-5 of them, and I couldn't tell what they have to do with women. I get stuff like that every time I engage those idiots in "conversation".

 

[Gamergeek25]

Okay maybe not all female characters needs to be like Ivy or Miranda, but whats wrong with having some hot characters. Also I love your biased poll. Hell Yeah! as a yes seems to me to imply its to make the poster who picks it feel immature.

 

[oZode]

I never was a fan of characters who use impractical armor for the sake of sexiness. Please leave more stuff to the imagination game maker guys.

 

[CATB320]

There's nothing wrong with a character being attractive, but it's pretty much impossible to deny that games are marketed towards male gamers. And most of the time, it's the female characters that get the short end of the stick. It sucks, but what can you do?