Poll: Videogames and Women
- Thread starter CaptainKarma
- Start date
You should clearly introduce this woman to Metroid, Mass Effect 2, and Ocarina of Time. There are definitely games where the women aren't bimbos clad in strategically placed ribbons, even though said games are often hard to find.
No, they should learn to expect the abuse to continue no matter how much they rage for at least a decade. Maybe by then things might have changed due to cultures ability to naturally take women who game in (due to a generation growing up with gaming being a common (50%+ US Population) medium everybody partakes in.) as a regular thing and not the "OMG a girl who play VIDEO GAMES!" that is a result from the past 20 years. However, don't expect teenagers and young adults to quit using racial/sexist/offensive slurs and all around 'inappropriate' behavior, especially in competitive and highly social yet semi-anonymous environments. You are going to get old and ***** about "hooligans" before that ever happens.CaptainKarma said:
As well, expect that some parts of the games industry will NEVER get behind this because people who like controversial material is the target demographic. This will mostly stay in the competitive gaming market as that demographic is mostly made up of young men who are seeking a way to compete to get a primitive desire for dominance amongst peers at a time when those feelings are strongest. Throw in boobies and you got yourself a seller.
It depends on the game really.
In Mass Effect its rather pathetic.
How can I take someone seriously WHEN THERE IS A CAMERA DOING FULL BODY PANNING SHOTS OF THEIR BUTT?
But in a game like Soul Caliber where it fits the art style and men are mostly dressed the same I guess it works.
Also it works for Isabela in Dragon Age 2 since it WORKS for her character.
It does not work to have Miranda dressed like a prostitute, and telling me to respect her.
I am sorry ...ass cleavage renders me unable to take anyone seriously.
In Mass Effect its rather pathetic.
How can I take someone seriously WHEN THERE IS A CAMERA DOING FULL BODY PANNING SHOTS OF THEIR BUTT?
But in a game like Soul Caliber where it fits the art style and men are mostly dressed the same I guess it works.
Also it works for Isabela in Dragon Age 2 since it WORKS for her character.
It does not work to have Miranda dressed like a prostitute, and telling me to respect her.
I am sorry ...ass cleavage renders me unable to take anyone seriously.
Farseer Lolotea said:
"I don't like that argument so I'll pretend it doesn't exist".
Congrats, you're doing the exact same thing you're bitching about, without even making a separate sentence to do it in.
Now it's obvious that the entire complaint is founded in hypocricy to begin with. How's your smug sense of moral superiority going to save you now?
This is because these often represent different ideals. Large muscles are usually power symbols for men (they can be sex symbols, though, but they're usually power symbols in vidoegames). Things like large boobs are sex symbols. We have to make the distinction between who's idealized and who's sexually objectified.Lumber Barber said:
Anyways, one of the things that I don't think has been discussed much here is that there often isn't much variety among female designs. In fighting games, you can find different ages and body types. Even taking into account the fact that most men in fighting games are unrealistically muscular, there still is some variety.
The women are usually young, skinny, and have big boobs or some other testament to their hotness.
You're not the first person to use that logic before. That's why he/she was able to link to explanations of your derailing problems instead of just writing it out.Zaik said:Farseer Lolotea said:
"I don't like that argument so I'll pretend it doesn't exist".
Congrats, you're doing the exact same thing you're bitching about, without even making a separate sentence to do it in.
Now it's obvious that the entire complaint is founded in hypocricy to begin with. How's your smug sense of moral superiority going to save you now?
let me break it down for you:
ugly chicks think its a marginalization of women
hot chicks think its amazing and there's not enough of it (beauty = narcissist)
normal guys don't really care, T&A never killed anybody (some enjoy it more than others) Overall it'll come down to preference like people that hated Uncharted because it wasn't Lara Croft
insecure guys are outraged and offended
ugly chicks think its a marginalization of women
hot chicks think its amazing and there's not enough of it (beauty = narcissist)
normal guys don't really care, T&A never killed anybody (some enjoy it more than others) Overall it'll come down to preference like people that hated Uncharted because it wasn't Lara Croft
insecure guys are outraged and offended
Dont worry. You won't make me mad. Anyone's allowed to disagree with me.lunavixen said:
But I think I'm done with this discussion, I feel as though I could easily slip up and accidentally really offend someone.
It's pretty bad, to be honest. Men are omnipresent, almost always made to be more important than female characters, and when female characters are important, well, they're made much different than the male characters. Hugely, hugely objectified. And no, making dudes manly does not count as objectification of men.
Okay, looks like you've covered it already. Thank you.yunabomb said:
Pretty clear that guy just lashed out rather than actually following the links, to boot.
Wow. And to think it's usually critics who are accused of "having something against attractive women."GZGoten said:
And nice strawman of male critics there, too. Not to mention rather bass-ackwards logic.
Translation: so what if those counter-arguments are so easily refuted that there's a compilation readily available? That's your story and you're sticking to it.hyperbolaholic said:Thanks all the same but I don't look to random people on the internet when seeking enlightenment. Cheers to you and that whole self-confidence thing you've got going. It's really working out for you!
Men are also hugely depicted as perma-stubbled beefcakes, and neither gender tends to have huge amounts of personality. I'd say characterisation and character design in games as a whole could improve.
Seriously if you think women are treated badly in games stop bringing up the bad examples and start promoting the bad examples. It is much easier to poke holes than it is to give a good improvements so start point out the better ones. Eg Beatrix FFIX among many others in many games but a lot in FF games. They may not be able to write a black character that isn't rife with stereotypes but the can sure write women well.
Sure things could improve, but keep in mind that other art forms are mired in their own degrees of sexism. Movies leap to mind, sure in our current day and age women are written into much stronger roles (in general) but there is still plenty of exploitation for sex appeal, at least here in America. Things are progressing, female lead and supporting characters can range from compelling to vacuous sexpots but there is a range. I suppose railing on the sexism is the only way to accelerate the progress, but it seems just a bit wishy washy to expect game design to start going against the shallow desires of its primary demographic.
Oh, it's definitely cultural. No argument at all.Pharsalus said:
The same people who critique games are often critiquing mainstream media in general.
Also, guys within a particular age range may still be the primary demographic, but it's not nearly as big of a gap as it used to be.
