Poll: Was this police shooting justified in your opinion? (Graphic)

[Deathmageddon]

It's probably unjustified, a crowbar is a short tange weapon, while a taser is a medium-short. They should have had their guns at the ready in case he tried to pull something out, while another officer made to stun him.

Did you not see how close that guy was to the officer? Totally justified. Also, it looked more like a fire axe than a crowbar.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

All this impiety towards authority is too much. The cops commanded him to back down, who did he think he was to resist them? Hello, we have laws against resisting arrest! When the cops are there, they have to take complete and total physical control of a situation. Their will be done. If he had wanted to live, he should have been properly subordinate to them.

 

[rutger5000]

Sad case, but justified.
If you come at a police officer with a weapon, expect to be shot.
It's not like they had half an hour to calm him, and maybe get a taser out, no. They got called about a guy terrosing people with a crowbar, he came out, saw the officers, and came at one. He was shot, and I want to hear none of this 'He could of fired a warning shot, or a leg shot, or a disabling shot' No. When you make the split second call to shoot someone, you want to make sure that fucker goes down. You don't know if they are high on drugs (I have first person accounts of Insurgents in Afghany taking 20 rifle rounds to go down when they are high)

In short, sad but justified.

You talk about plit-second decisions. This was not a split second decision! The video clearly shows that two cops had at least 10 seconds to decide how to handle this situation. It's extremly likely they had much more time then this. They were probably called to come here, and had some intell on the situation.
You also talk as if there was no time to pull out non-lethal weapons. Well maybe they did not have half an hour. But they had enough times to pull out their guns right? If there was one officers, then maybe just maybe it could be justified to have only a gun at the ready. But there were two of them, they should have cooperated, one with a gun, one with a non lethal weapon.
Beside he was carrying a crowbar, a fing crowbar. They had guns and a nearly open parking space. Use some goddam common sense and distance yourself.
The shooting occured at 0:45. Which means they had at least 45 seconds to come with an alternative then emptying a clip into this guys torso. If that is not enough time, then they should not be cops.
I'm not saying that what they did was wrong, and I'm not saying I could do better, but I'm not a cop. For a police officer this is not an acceptable way to handle this situation. They failed at their duty to 'serve and protect' and should be fired.

 

[concrete89]

To fire a taser at someones head is not really optimal. Taser probes spread out, and it is likely that they did not both connect.
But, it is possible that the cop missed, and resetting a taser takes time. It happens.

But continuing to walk towards the guy, head down, without a weapon drawn?
That's pretty fucking careless!
He was about to get himself killed. I mean, he's a trained professional, and he undersetimates an armed criminal? That's what lead to this killing.

The shooter had little choice but to protect his incompetent partner, as he had no way of knowing what the perp was about to do.
The mistake was made long before the guy turned and swung his weapon.

Their carelessness is unjustifiable.
They left themselves with lethal force as their only option.





But lets face it. Police are just not properly equipped for todays social climate. To function properly within it they would need more effective less-lethal weapons, which are either too expensive, cumbersome, or non-existant to be available at this time.

They would also have to be pretty much bulletproof, and that's just not possible.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Completely unjustified. If anything let go off the dogs leash and the dog could've handled that better. What happened to tackling? I could've handled that better by myself. The crowbar wielding man isn't in the right but the police could have handled that much much better.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

It was justified though the cop that shot him like you said panicked and unloaded.
They first tried to taser him, which was successful. (It hits him in the face) But he pulled it off, then the suspect started heading for the now unarmed (he was only holding a empty taser gun). So the other cop shot him.

Since you can not see when he falls we can never be sure, but take it from someone who has studied law enforcement. You are not trained to hit the legs. Your trained to shoot till the suspect goes down.

Also are we even sure if he's dead? Don't you see him handcuffed at the end? The cop could of very well missed. Its not that hard to miss with a handgun when your freaking out.

 

[GistoftheFist]

I have no idea why so many people on this site rush to defend criminals who are a clear threat to others, screaming an officer of the law 'murdered' someone who is violent and armed. If I were in that vicinity, i'd want the police to protect my life and the life of others around me from a dusted-up maniac swinging a weapon with intent to hurt and kill us.

 

[Sandytimeman]

The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot, it just looked like he panicked and unloaded.

You do know that 1) Officers are trained to shoot center of mass (to prevent ricochets and to make sure they hit for what they aim at) 2) This isn't a Hollywood movie, any bullet wound is dangerous and deadly

 

[Phlakes]

When anyone is in danger, you don't take chances. One swing to the head and your partner of 15 years could be killed. That's what guns are for, to take people down from a safe distance.

 

[direkiller]

Sad case, but justified.
If you come at a police officer with a weapon, expect to be shot.
It's not like they had half an hour to calm him, and maybe get a taser out, no. They got called about a guy terrosing people with a crowbar, he came out, saw the officers, and came at one. He was shot, and I want to hear none of this 'He could of fired a warning shot, or a leg shot, or a disabling shot' No. When you make the split second call to shoot someone, you want to make sure that fucker goes down. You don't know if they are high on drugs (I have first person accounts of Insurgents in Afghany taking 20 rifle rounds to go down when they are high)

In short, sad but justified.

You talk about plit-second decisions. This was not a split second decision! The video clearly shows that two cops had at least 10 seconds to decide how to handle this situation. It's extremly likely they had much more time then this. They were probably called to come here, and had some intell on the situation.
You also talk as if there was no time to pull out non-lethal weapons. Well maybe they did not have half an hour. But they had enough times to pull out their guns right? If there was one officers, then maybe just maybe it could be justified to have only a gun at the ready. But there were two of them, they should have cooperated, one with a gun, one with a non lethal weapon.
Beside he was carrying a crowbar, a fing crowbar. They had guns and a nearly open parking space. Use some goddam common sense and distance yourself.
The shooting occured at 0:45. Which means they had at least 45 seconds to come with an alternative then emptying a clip into this guys torso. If that is not enough time, then they should not be cops.
I'm not saying that what they did was wrong, and I'm not saying I could do better, but I'm not a cop. For a police officer this is not an acceptable way to handle this situation. They failed at their duty to 'serve and protect' and should be fired.

You do know the one cop that was going to get swung hat was using non-lethal weapons
He was not shot with a gun untill he turned to hit them. Up to that point they were using non-leathal options.

 

[annilator666]

cops today are total pussies most have no idea how to fight without any weapons or even disarm someone

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I thought it was unjustified at first, but then I realised what was happening when they were saying right in the face and there was that crackling noise. The guy took a taser to the face, didn't even flinch, and then attacked a police officer. I think the guy would have been crazy to try anything else.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

He was tased, shook it away like nothing.

He moved to attack the officer behind him with a lethal weapon.

The second officer shot him to protect his comrade.

What about that is not justified?

at most he should have got a shot in the leg

The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot, it just looked like he panicked and unloaded.

Movie-laws don't work in real life. A shot in the leg is as lethal as anywhere else (maybe even a little more since he would've bled out in seconds). There is no "shoot to disarm", there is always just "shoot to kill".


This is actually what happened. The actions of the officer behind him are most likely attempts to taze him (there is no other reason to get so close to someone with a freakin crowbar).

But yeah, they tazed him and he shook it off and made a gesture to attack the officer.

A shot in the leg is not lethal except when it hits the artery, even then it's not as deadly as 5 shots to the cheast. You can stop the bleeding of a leg, but not a pierced heart. And there IS something in the likeness of shoot to stop. If he was trained in using a gun, shooting someone in the leg/arm/lower abdomine/shoulder is very much possible, but he aimed for the middle and just, as
Brawndo said, unloaded in panic. You can see it in the video the offender takes a step forward, teh slowes down. But he just shoots him 5 times in a panic.
I'm not saying that shooting him was wrong, he might have thought the offender was going to strike. But one shote, and then pause for a tiny moment to see the resault. If he kept up the attack, shoot to kill. At worst the officer would have gotten a very-east-to-avoid swing of a crowbar at him, maybe to the chest. That hurts a bit, but does nothing close to kill him. But they decide to just... blow him away,

 

[Thyunda]

News story under the video, shooting occurs at 0:42.

Is a human life really worth so little that a half a dozen police officers will not try to overpower and disarm one man with a crowbar? I mean what is event the point of spending thousands of dollars equipping and training police with batons, pepper spray, rubber bullets, and police dogs if the cops aren't going to use them? The officer who shot the suspect didn't even go for the leg shot, it just looked like he panicked and unloaded.

There were two of them and it looked like he was about to attack one of them with the weapon. I don't think they needed to take the time to pull out another weapon when he's going to attack with something that can clearly injure that officer. He didn't have access to thousands of dollars of equipment right then and there.

And the leg shot nonsense is just ignorant. That's not how it works IRL. You don't shoot for the legs.

I'm sorry, but our police in England are trained to physically restrain an armed man. Plus he had a big fucking dog. The thug actually turned away from the officer with the dog, who responded by shooting him dead. If these officers were trained to actually respond to situations rather than just pulling a gun, that man would still be alive, and he'd be in a jail cell. If I can see an opportunity presenting itself, I'm quite sure a trained, baton-armed, dog-leashed police officer can.

I'm doubtful they're going to have a nice chance to physically restrain him when he's about to swing that weapon at one of them. At least not before one of them gets hurt badly.

Except for the big fucking dog he's restraining while shooting him. Why was the dog even there? And are police not trained for these encounters? They sure as hell are over here, so why aren't they over there? Shooting him was simply out of order.

EDIT: The point I'm making is that the thug turned his back to the officer with the dog. That right there is an invitation to take him down.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Completely unjustified. If anything let go off the dogs leash and the dog could've handled that better. What happened to tackling? I could've handled that better by myself. The crowbar wielding man isn't in the right but the police could have handled that much much better.

You think it's smart to tackle someone wielding a crowbar?

Alright...maybe not alone but he was sufficiently distracted and outnumbered.

 

[Sovvolf]

Course its unjustified, the police did it. Honestly we should get rid of the police and just let these posters sort it out, I'm sure the world would be a much safer place with them on the beat...

Though sarcasm aside, yeah, it was justified. Course, if the officer had waited for his partner to have taken it right to the head (getting killed in the process) we'd have a full thread of people screaming that they should have just shot him.