Poll: What is everyone's problem with XIII?

[Madara XIII]

Seriously i see more and more "omg ff13 is shit" rants everyday. Although i dont rank it as the best ff it was far from the worst and in some cases like the battle system improved on prevoious titles.

So I ask you was XIII a dissapointment for you? And if so why?

I found it a disappointment because it's just a really badly designed game; I cannot be bothered to type out a long rant explaining why so here is the bullet-point version:

- Way to linear - no exploration, no feeling of progression.

- Terrible writing - "Moms are tough", "Seraph!!!" [Every 5 seconds] and all the other corny melo-drama in the game.

- Horrible characterization - Primarily thanks to the above.

- Massive plot holes that make no sense / Deus Ex Machinas - See Anima, see the ending, see Cid Raines.

- Pointless characters - the game only has a few named characters and yet at least 5 of them are completely irrelevant...

- Battle system plays itself - there is no thought or focus to playing that system, just mash auto-attack and you'll win 90% of the time.

- Items are useless because the game is very easy.

- Elevator music doesn't match the areas - gives the plot a childish feel.

- Lack of things to do after main game.

- Melo-drama for the sake of it - the game trying to trick you Sazh killed himself when within the context of the scene it makes no sense. Insults the players intelligence.

- Horrible voice acting - again thanks to terrible writing.

- Lack of progression when leveling - you never feel particularly powerful, even during the end-game and maxed out...

- Game hides the poorly thought out story in the data-log - player has no idea what's really occurring for the first half of the game.

I could go on if I wanted to...

... Kinda sums it up there, but my main Problem was the beginning rips off what is by far Too damn similar for coincidence Final Fantasy 7 opening. I mean really!? Secondly I hated the no exploration. If I wanted a Linear game then I wouldn't be looking for a Final Fantasy game

 

[Blanko2]

Seriously i see more and more "omg ff13 is shit" rants everyday. Although i dont rank it as the best ff it was far from the worst and in some cases like the battle system improved on prevoious titles.

So I ask you was XIII a dissapointment for you? And if so why?

firstly XIII is a whole nother game, and its a shooter.
FFXIII, though, well there hasnt been a good final fantasy since FFX and even then, its iffy.

 

[Defense]

I rather like the game so far. It takes the game a really long time for me to have any real choice in battle and the dialogue is just horrid in the beginning(but I thought it was really nice once I figured out what the hell fal'Cie and l'Cie were), but the game isn't that bad. I didn't mind the linearity because I always find myself getting lost in pointless dungeons, and it's a breath of fresh air after the same Destination>Dungeon>Destination formula that too many JRPGs use.

Personally, the worst Final Fantasy is Final Fantasy II, but Final Fantasy II had some great music thankfully.

 

[Madara XIII]

I am one of those people who think FF VII is over-rated, but let me explain why I disliked XIII as a whole, it's because I felt it was a huge step backwards from what had come before, now don't get me wrong XII's combat wasn't perfect, but I could kinda see what Square were trying to do with the franchise by updating it, that is something I can admire. The main problem with XIII's combat was that it was just dull, it wasn't fast paced nor did it give you a proper sense of control over your party (something I like from JRPGs), this to me was a huge misstep, that and the fact that you can survive most battles repeatedy tapping one button over and over again.

I still think VI (or III if you are American) is the best FF game to date, I do hope that the franchise can redeem itself after this backfire, but after the way XIV went, that won't happen any time soon.

Hmmm it's confusing when you put it like that .. I mean in America III was about Cloud of Darkness and Onion Knight. Is that the one you're referring to or is it the one with Kefka?

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

I thought it was quite good. Especially the first half of the story, when it was focusing on the drama between Hope, Snow, and Lightning. That was some good freaking stuff. The battle system is one of my favorites in the series as well. The soundtrack wasn't Uematsu, but it was the best Non-Uematsu score the series has seen.

For that matter, I disagree with most criticism against the game. Sure, it was linear, but why is that such a terrible thing? Why do people simultaneously say "it was too easy" and "you never feel powerful?" And how do so many people miss the strategy of the game? The auto-attack is designed to direct your focus to the paradigm shifts, something it does quite successfully, and the paradigms are where the gameplay gets quite strategic and exciting.

I liked it. Not the best: that distinction goes to VI, VII, and X. But quite good.

That bolded poit was very true for me. I basically only upgraded Lightning so I'd have an supreme soldier to fall back on in case my party falls. Yet no matter how much I upgraded her physical abilities and kept all of her equipment at its highest (compared to the others) she wasn't that much stronger. I swear a few hours after Fang got her summon, she was taking off the same damage as Lightning even though Lightning had a lvl 25 sword comparded to Fangs lvl 12 staff. WTF?

A high attack power barely did anything b/c later on in the game all the enemies are resistant to sword attacks so magic is a necessity.

Also, why the hell do they still have the battle arena thing. I swear other games in the past did this because they didn't have the ability to render battles in the exact spots you were in. Why couldn't they stream battles in the area you were so you wouldn't have to go through the battle then wait for the game to load where you were. (one of the reasons why FFXII is my favourite)

Lastly is the linearity. Yes I know, many games are linear but they do a good job of hiding it. God of War is linear, Uncharted is linear, heck FFX is linear. Its just that this game doesn't hide it. You see no life anywhere except your party members and because of that everywhere seems lifeless. This causes you to look at the walls surrounding you inhibiting you from leaving the set path. You aren't doing anything interesting while going down the almost straight path (like Uncharted with the many cinematic moments, or God of War with its puzzles and hidden items to keep you from noticing the linearity). Its basically walk straight, an enemy is blocking your path so you HAVE to fight him and go into that annoying battle arena thing.

PS Im not saying the battle system is bad, it has its flaws like the fact that selecting attacks takes longer than just pressing auto attack, or the fact that you can't move or control any characters so the battle system is basically a slightly different version of FF IX and X's battle system. I think a hybrid of FFXII combat (you can move around, battles are real time attacks are easy to find and YOU DON"T HAVE TO SWITCH CLASSES JUST TO HEAL ONE PERSON) with FFXIII (Active Time Bars are segmented and allow for combos of different attacks). What they ended up with is pretty disappointing though.

 

[Akihiko]

I am one of those people who think FF VII is over-rated, but let me explain why I disliked XIII as a whole, it's because I felt it was a huge step backwards from what had come before, now don't get me wrong XII's combat wasn't perfect, but I could kinda see what Square were trying to do with the franchise by updating it, that is something I can admire. The main problem with XIII's combat was that it was just dull, it wasn't fast paced nor did it give you a proper sense of control over your party (something I like from JRPGs), this to me was a huge misstep, that and the fact that you can survive most battles repeatedy tapping one button over and over again.

I still think VI (or III if you are American) is the best FF game to date, I do hope that the franchise can redeem itself after this backfire, but after the way XIV went, that won't happen any time soon.

Hmmm it's confusing when you put it like that .. I mean in America III was about Cloud of Darkness and Onion Knight. Is that the one you're referring to or is it the one with Kefka?

In america, the original SNES version of Final Fantasy VI was released as III, because II, III and V hadn't been released in America. IV was released as II.

 

[Kwatsu]

My problem with FFXIII is that it just wasn't fun. After my initial excitement, it gradually began to feel more like a chore. I understand that some people liked FFXIII, and frankly more power to them. If you got a good experience out of it and didn't feel like you wasted your money, I envy you.

What I enjoyed:
- The music. FFXIII has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard.
- The battle system... up to a point. It works very smoothly, feels exciting but strategic, and Paradigm Shifting is a fun way to run the jobs system.
- Fang and Sazh. Fang was a nice antidote to all the perky "We can do it!"-ness of the other characters.

What I didn't enjoy:
- The battle system (occasionally). I cannot fathom why they thought it was a good idea to make everyone die if the party leader dies. It makes no sense at all. I could have both secondary characters at max health and buffed to the nines, and they'd just keel over if I lost the leader. Why?
- The game is linear to the point of being a corridor RPG, except in the one point where you're let free on Gran Pulse, and then everything just kills you. Maybe I didn't level my characters properly, but being kerb-stomped by the first thing you run across isn't a good introduction to an area, especially when this is the first time they've let you off the rails.
- The story. The opening of FFXIII is clearly the ENDING of another game, but then it just keeps going... and going... The characters stumble around the world, having no plan beyond "defying our fate!!" until the main villain gets fed up and just gives them a plane back to Cocoon. The characters have no plan (beyond the aforementioned fate-defiance, which is never anything beyond "run away, then run back"), their motivations are silly, and their personalities are largely unlikeable.
- The graphics. The game is incredibly pretty, but the design of the areas is ridiculous. They show you gorgeous, huge cities, and then make you run on rails throughout the whole thing. One cutscene--the racetrack sequence when they return to Cocoon--is seizure-inducing and makes no sense at all.

I haven't finished FFXIII (though I got pretty close) because I found it too depressing to keep going. FF Versus XIII is starting to look like a better prospect at this point, but this time I'll wait for the reviews.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I figured it would be a lot more innovative and such since it was the first main installment on these current gen consoles, and considering the development time, yeah, not impressed.

The characters, I found very stereotypical, the story was pretty predictable and I hated the way that it took 15+ hours to open the world up to what little exploration there was. Oh, and only controlling/commanding one character in battle, what's that about? It's like it was holding my hand they way through the game saying "You can't handle a whole team, just focus on one." and for the most part, you don't even get to choose who it is you control.

I could go on, but yeah.

EDIT: Also, could they PLEASE think of a new basis for character names, I can't take Snow and Lightning seriously on a name basis.

Yeah it's a bit linear, but it gets so much better when you get to Gran Pulse and there's a crap load of stuff for you to do.

Remind me, roughly how long does it take to get there? That comment is one of the most I hear in defense of this game, fine, it gets better after a point, but why should someone have to play 15+ hours before they really get to enjoy a game they paid over $100 bucks for? (NZ currency) That's like saying you have to work at it before you really get to have fun. This is a game, something people play for fun. Most people didn't expect to have to work for it, because work isn't fun at all.

 

[Flames66]

What is XIII?

 

[zfactor]

Seriously i see more and more "omg ff13 is shit" rants everyday. Although i dont rank it as the best ff it was far from the worst and in some cases like the battle system improved on prevoious titles.

So I ask you was XIII a dissapointment for you? And if so why?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



I thought you were asking about XIII the game (it is a game, released by Ubisoft in 2003, done with comic book graphics, complete with "Booms" and "Bangs" with each gunshot or explosion). That game was awesome. Seriously, look it up and then go and buy it. I read your title and though "Why is someone talking about a really old game now?" Then I realized it was for a game I never played (FINAL FANTASY XII).

Bottom line:
DON'T CALL IT XII BECAUSE THAT IS ANOTHER GAME, CALL IT FINAL FANTASY XII BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS



Never played it, so I didn't vote...

 

[mirror's edgy]

I agree with most complaints about the combat, but have a few more as well.
-Each attack is piss- weak.
They seemed to be so obsessed with style that you had to launch fifteen attacks per turn and create endless combos, so the somewhat careful planning strategy of previous games was gone.
-Paradigm Shift felt awkward
Some people liked this "diversity" but all it really did was make you hit the paradigm button EVERY TIME you wanted a different action. Healing, buffing, attacking, attacking this way, de-buffing, it never stopped! The games with job systems didn't need this!
And so, so, so many more fan- stomping issues.

 

[Madara XIII]

I am one of those people who think FF VII is over-rated, but let me explain why I disliked XIII as a whole, it's because I felt it was a huge step backwards from what had come before, now don't get me wrong XII's combat wasn't perfect, but I could kinda see what Square were trying to do with the franchise by updating it, that is something I can admire. The main problem with XIII's combat was that it was just dull, it wasn't fast paced nor did it give you a proper sense of control over your party (something I like from JRPGs), this to me was a huge misstep, that and the fact that you can survive most battles repeatedy tapping one button over and over again.

I still think VI (or III if you are American) is the best FF game to date, I do hope that the franchise can redeem itself after this backfire, but after the way XIV went, that won't happen any time soon.

Hmmm it's confusing when you put it like that .. I mean in America III was about Cloud of Darkness and Onion Knight. Is that the one you're referring to or is it the one with Kefka?

In america, the original SNES version of Final Fantasy VI was released as III, because II, III and V hadn't been released in America. IV was released as II.

Ah I see. Well damnit all that is some Confusing BS XD Especially seeing how Dissidia made me want to play FF 1 - 10

 

[beniki]

I just couldn't take it seriously.

Kind of silly names. Massively improbable fights right from the start which I'm just supposed to accept. Frankly disturbing relationships. Overly complicated combat system, which actually boiled down to simple stance dance. Peculiar level up menu design, with, again, silly names.

Although I only played the first 10 hours at a friends house, so my opinion means little.

 

[tehroc]

I thought this was about XIII: The Conspiracy, some Canadian Made for TV Miniseries. It wasn't too bad for a 24 ripoff.

 

[Zenn3k]

Press UP, Mash "A" (360) will nearly get you to Grand Pulse.

The game overall was very boring. I beat the game to enjoy the story (which took awhile before I figured out what was going on), went back to GP, and proceeded to "DEATH" all the hunter quests to get the good items, maxed out my characters, got Omega weapons for each of them (even though I really only used 3 of them at that point), got to the point where I could farm those trapezohedron things (the big turtles) easily and simply ran out of things to do.

It was all decently fun while I was clearing everything out, but I had ZERO reason to replay the game (especially since you have no options for alteration...ever) and traded it in not long after I did everything I was interested in doing, I still could have gotten ALL the Omega weapons if I wanted, but I felt it was a waste of time.

It was a very lackluster release IMO.

 

[Double A]

Where's the "I wasn't disappointed but that doesn't mean I liked it" option for those of us who don't like Final Fantasy?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Squeenix's design philosophy for FF13: "This is a video game, so be sure to involve the player as little as possible. People buy our games to watch endless cutscenes and stereotypes, nothing else."

Not content with merely dragging the game to a crawl, Squeenix insisted that the player be confined to this tiny game design box, so that they wouldn't miss the umpty-million dollars spent making the game really really fucking pretty.

They lock the player in a shining hallway filled with cutscene opportunities.
Older Final Fantasy games at least gave you the freedom to explore your surroundings, and indeed, rewarded you for doing so.

But the combat is where they really pull the drag chute, especially towards the end.
Boss battles are all about building up the Guard Break bar, and then chaining combos when their defenses go down. (Xenosaga Episode 2 did this, and it SUCKED.)

While that sounds cool on paper, in practice, it means all of your attacks really amount to a hidden form of grind, because you will be using the same 2-4 Gambits Paradigms the entire fight and pressing a button whenever the bar fills up.

Yes, I just said that Final Fantasy 13 turned the combat itself into a form of grind.

And that right there is more than enough reason to not play this over bloated piece of shit.

 

[Leemaster777]

I'm actually playing XIII myself for the very first time. (I haven't read any comments on this board yet to avoid spoilers).

I've reached the part where Snow rejoins the party (where you get to control Shiva for the first time), and the game is FINALLY starting to come alive.

Those first 5 hours REALLY dragged, so much so that I nearly gave up on the game. But, I decided to give it one more chance, and things finally started improving.

It certainly isn't a great game YET, but I'm feeling optimistic. I'm finally starting to see where the game is going with the Paradigm system, and I'm intrigued so far.

The minimal control over character action was a bit of a turn-off for those first 5 hours, but I'm actually starting to appreciate it. It makes the battles that much quicker, random encounters don't feel like so much of a hassle this way.

The characters have also FINALLY stopped being annoying to me. Lightning's personality finally makes sense, Snow doesn't seem like as much of a douche anymore, Hope's whinyness seems to have toned down, and Vanille's voice has finally stopped grating. Sazh is still, and was from the beginning, awesome. He was one of the only reasons I gave the game a second chance.

So, yeah, at 15 hours in, I'm just starting to have a good time. If the rest of the game is made of win, I might just say it was worth it. Now, I'm going back to play it.

 

[Rayansaki]

It didn't have space marines or just... marines so it wasn't allowed to be linear in the eyes of the masses. I loved the game. For me, as long as it doesn't overly repeat itself, and still has a decent size, I don't mind the game being linear. How many games ship with 70+ hours of solid gameplay do we have nowadays? Apart from New Vegas, I don't see any other this year.

The story was great, everything looked great, the combat was engaging, and perfectly balanced in terms of difficulty, and the Cut-scenes were so beautiful in 1080p loss-less encoded video, that you could get lost in them, even when they would be boring otherwise. Seriously, this is Pixar grade animations.

It's also great to get a break from the Shooter infested market we have, which is infecting the RPGs as well, with games like ME2 which you can't even call an rpg anymore.

It's by no means my favorite game of the year, but it was worth my day 1 buy.

 

[Ryujisama]

Here's what I can tell you from my own personal experience and from the experience of friends who have played it at least half-way through.

Final Fantsy 13 is a very pretty game; by far, it is the most graphically impressive of the series. However, it kinda falls under the curse of Final Fantasy 10, and some other games of it's kind: Graphics over Gameplay. As pretty as the game is, it doesn't distract players that the gameplay itself is kinda meh. Combat is a button masher's dream, for the first few hours of the game, literally mashing the 'x' button (or 'a' button for 360 owners) will get you through combat. Speaking of which, combat, at this point becomes more of a chore than something to enjoy. I often fell asleep in mid-fight only to find out that after waking up, I still won, and with a maximum score of 5 stars, too (anyone ever find out what is the purpose of those stars?).

One main purpose of RPGs is to gain experience to level up, right? Then why did SE decide that leveling up should be limited? Though people who hate to grind will essentially love this decision, this totally rubs most RPG fanatics the wrong way. There's a lot of hand-holding in this game, too. A LOT of hand-holding. The paths in the game is linear, you can't form your own parties until like a good 1/3 through the game (roughly 14+ hours), and if you die in battle, you are taken just outside of the battle to rethink your strategy/re-equip your characters/buy stuff from the "store".... wait, that doesn't sound too bad, but still... HAND-HOLDING!!!

tldr: good-looking game, bad gameplay, and not an RPG.

/rant