I was having a discussion with my class earlier today...Joseph Webb said:YOU are forgetting your PEMDAS. 48/2(9+3) is a simplified version of 48/(9(2)+3(2)). Ask any math teacher or student, you are doing it wrong.Taerdin said:You're forgetting your BEDMAS/PEMDAS. You have to do the division before the multiplication, from left to right.Pyro Paul said:the answer is 2.
2(9+3) is the simplified form of 2*9 + 2*3
NOT
2 * (9+3)
as written the equation should be seen as
48 / (2*9 + 2*3)
which when calculated out equials 2.
48/2 = 24
24 * 9 + 24 * 3 = 288
You should do some review on order of operations
Seriously, stop. Just stop. Really. Math is a universal language, this is a fact. You are making up lies. I'm not even kidding, you could tell an alien the Pythagorean theorem, draw a diagram, and it would understand EXACTLY what you're trying to tell it (granted it knows the Pythagorean theorem). It does NOT MATTER what symbol you are using. It will ALWAYS mean the same thing.mps4li3n said:And you're right... IN AMERICA (or where that's from).Joseph Webb said:If your answer was 288, then you're wrong. http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm There's a link as to why, maybe it'll help you understand the error of your ways. It doesn't even include /difficult topics/ like the distributive method. REMEMBER, the division symbol they use is the EXACT same as the / symbol. Scroll down until you see them solve Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 ? 3(4 ? 2)] + 1. that problem. It EVEN states how calculators solve these types of problems incorrectly! AMAZING!drdamo said:I aced my equations exam as the only in my summerclass and since then I haven't been pointed out that I'm wrong. And I have to do a fair ammount of equations being an environmental science student and all, so if you have a different opinion I respect that, but don't think I'll "see the error of my ways" when a total stranger says so, compared to a school filled with teachers who give me the thumbs up for my work.
It's not impossible that in other places they might use the symbols differently... or perhaps standardisation was actually reached the whole globe and everyone uses it like that... my point was that i don't have enough knowledge to say either way... the question is do you?
And obviously you didn't read the whole link:
"" The general consensus among math people is that "multiplication by juxtaposition" (that is, multiplying by just putting things next to each other, rather than using the "×" sign) indicates that the juxtaposed values must be multiplied together before processing other operations. But not all software is programmed this way, and sometimes teachers view things differently. If in doubt, ask!""
But you're right, 2 seems to be the number the consensus favours...
And to quote from your own reference:Joseph Webb said:If your answer was 288, then you're wrong. http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm There's a link as to why, maybe it'll help you understand the error of your ways. It doesn't even include /difficult topics/ like the distributive method. REMEMBER, the division symbol they use is the EXACT same as the / symbol. Scroll down until you see them solve Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 ? 3(4 ? 2)] + 1. that problem. It EVEN states how calculators solve these types of problems incorrectly! AMAZING!drdamo said:I aced my equations exam as the only in my summerclass and since then I haven't been pointed out that I'm wrong. And I have to do a fair ammount of equations being an environmental science student and all, so if you have a different opinion I respect that, but don't think I'll "see the error of my ways" when a total stranger says so, compared to a school filled with teachers who give me the thumbs up for my work.
You are forgetting about the distributive method. Really. You AREN'T JUST carrying in the denominator, because (9+3) IS PART OF THE DENOMINATOR.Taerdin said:I was having a discussion with my class earlier today...Joseph Webb said:YOU are forgetting your PEMDAS. 48/2(9+3) is a simplified version of 48/(9(2)+3(2)). Ask any math teacher or student, you are doing it wrong.Taerdin said:You're forgetting your BEDMAS/PEMDAS. You have to do the division before the multiplication, from left to right.Pyro Paul said:the answer is 2.
2(9+3) is the simplified form of 2*9 + 2*3
NOT
2 * (9+3)
as written the equation should be seen as
48 / (2*9 + 2*3)
which when calculated out equials 2.
48/2 = 24
24 * 9 + 24 * 3 = 288
You should do some review on order of operations
To distribute into the brackets you can't just carry the denominator of the fraction in. It would be (48/2)*9 + (48/2)*3
I implore you to please review order of operations. Or if you prefer, utilise any calculator you wish to see the error of your ways (windows calc, google, wolfram alpha, etc.)
Yes, that is why 288 is correct. It does not exclude 2 from being correct either though.Skratt said:I actually corrected myself when I went to lunch and discovered why I got the problem wrong. PEMDAS, which is what I was taught is an order of operations. What I forgot (or maybe never remember learning) was that M carries no more weight than D and A no more than S. So, in absence of P, the equation is solved left to right.kurupt87 said:BIDMASSkratt said:PEMDAS
(48/2)(9+3)=288
48/2(9+3)=2
Better?
48/2(9+3)=288
48/[2(9+3)]=2
Better?
As many have already said, it's a poorly written problem.
The fact that "/" is used does not necessarily imply a fraction. "/" is the default sign for the operation called division and also to seperate a numerator from a denominator in computer language, this is where the problem lies.
4*3+5=17
5+3*4=17
Correct?
You are right, we are not computers. People can interpret the question wrong, the computer is told how to interpret questions properly to correctly solve them.Joseph Webb said:You see, there's the flaw in your logic. We are not computers. It doesn't not matter how it is written for us, you should understand that (48/2)(9+3) =/= 48/2(9+3) The fact that you think that they are equal proves to me that you do not understand the distributive property. Stop arguing with your flawed logic, you will never be correct, because we will never be computers. Computers are provided with a flawed logic system in their programming, every math teacher (and decent math student) knows this. Math was designed before computers were. It doesn't matter how you phrase it, the question will always be the same if you phrase it correctly (which you aren't doing if you think the answer is 288).
but it is based on your order of operations.drdamo said:Why? Because in order to change the order, when both operations have the same priority, you have to bracket the one who's priority needs to change and therefore make an exception on the left-to-right rule.
Saying (9+3) is part of the denominator is an assumption and not based on the facts that are our order of operations.
I think I've shown that I understand distributive method. (9+3) is not part of a denominator, it is being multiplied by the fraction forty eight over two.Joseph Webb said:You are forgetting about the distributive method. Really. You AREN'T JUST carrying in the denominator, because (9+3) IS PART OF THE DENOMINATOR.
That's great and all, but you are not a mathematician. Clearly. You do NOT solve this problem as a computer would, because computers SOLVE THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM INCORRECTLY. I'VE SAID IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Calculators assume that anything with a / is a fraction in and of itself. It is NOT smart enough to determine between a denominator and a fraction. If you are a computer, good job, you solved the problem correctly. Alas, we are human, and not machines, so we solve mathematical equations the good old fashioned way, with pen and paper. STOP arguing that machines are correct in this aspect. They are not.Enrathi said:And to quote from your own reference:Joseph Webb said:If your answer was 288, then you're wrong. http://www.purplemath.com/modules/orderops2.htm There's a link as to why, maybe it'll help you understand the error of your ways. It doesn't even include /difficult topics/ like the distributive method. REMEMBER, the division symbol they use is the EXACT same as the / symbol. Scroll down until you see them solve Simplify 16 ÷ 2[8 ? 3(4 ? 2)] + 1. that problem. It EVEN states how calculators solve these types of problems incorrectly! AMAZING!drdamo said:I aced my equations exam as the only in my summerclass and since then I haven't been pointed out that I'm wrong. And I have to do a fair ammount of equations being an environmental science student and all, so if you have a different opinion I respect that, but don't think I'll "see the error of my ways" when a total stranger says so, compared to a school filled with teachers who give me the thumbs up for my work.
(And please do not send me an e-mail either asking for or else proffering a definitive verdict on this issue. As far as I know, there is no such final verdict. And telling me to do this your way will not solve the issue!)
I will again stick with my answer of 288 because as has been stated by others, I'm a programmer and as I've been trained to read and write equations, 288 is the correct answer.
It isn't though, and that's why you'll get that problem wrong on your next test.Taerdin said:I think I've shown that I understand distributive method. (9+3) is not part of a denominator, it is being multiplied by the fraction forty eight over two.Joseph Webb said:You are forgetting about the distributive method. Really. You AREN'T JUST carrying in the denominator, because (9+3) IS PART OF THE DENOMINATOR.
I've already finished basic algebra years ago... and calc... advanced calc... nowadays I just study video game design and development.Joseph Webb said:It isn't though, and that's why you'll get that problem wrong on your next test.
You realise that a large group of really smart scientists developed computers right? They weren't designed to get math wrong, that would be stupid. The rules in place on computers follow for people as well, the correct answer is 288...Joseph Webb said:STOP arguing that machines are correct in this aspect. They are not.
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST. This is the most dumbed down version possible of solving this problem accurately. I'm being absolutely sincere by the way, thank you. I don't think anyone can argue that the answer is 288 now.Pyro Paul said:but it is based on your order of operations.drdamo said:Why? Because in order to change the order, when both operations have the same priority, you have to bracket the one who's priority needs to change and therefore make an exception on the left-to-right rule.
Saying (9+3) is part of the denominator is an assumption and not based on the facts that are our order of operations.
Parenthisis calls for you to distribute then calculate.
a better example of this
16/2(8)
verses
16/2*8
16/2(8) expands out to
16 / 2(8+0) which when distributed.
16 / (2*8 + 2*0) which calculates out to
16 / 16
1
16/2*8 is seen as just that.
in this we would follow the order of operations normally from left to right.
(16/2) * 8
8 * 8
64
the problem is, because of basic programing, computers don't create this distinction between the two. to a basic calculator 2(8) is the same as 2*8. there are very few calculators that will automatically distribute for you. i believe the Ti-84 does while the Ti-82 doesn't. of which when the same equation is plugged into both calculators, each will display a diffrent answer.
2 IS a coefficient of (9+3). Duh. There's only one correct way to interpret the question, and (48/2)(9+3) is not it. They would have typed that up instead if they wanted the answer 288.Sightless Wisdom said:Equation should be written (48/2)(9+3) meaning 24*12=288. The only real question is not one of math but of syntax. The answer depends on the intended meaning of how it was written, if 2 is a coefficient of (9+3) it's different.
I don't see how this many "intelligent" people can disagree on the issue.
Google calculator does not Distribute for you...The_AC said:48/2(9+3) = (48/2)(9+3)
http://www.google.com/search?q=48%2F2(9%2B3)
http://www.google.com/search?q=(48%2F2)(9%2B3)
Take 48, divide it by 2, then multiply by the sum of 9 and 3. Case closed.
You distributed wrong. IT would be (16/2)*8 + (16/2)*0 which gives you 64.Pyro Paul said:Parenthisis calls for you to distribute then calculate.
a better example of this
16/2(8)
verses
16/2*8
16/2(8) expands out to
16 / 2(8+0) which when distributed.
16 / (2*8 + 2*0) which calculates out to
16 / 16
1
See the part about drawing a diagram?!Joseph Webb said:. I'm not even kidding, you could tell an alien the Pythagorean theorem, draw a diagram, and it would understand EXACTLY what you're trying to tell it (granted it knows the Pythagorean theorem). It does NOT MATTER what symbol you are using. It will ALWAYS mean the same thing.
No, you can program a to do the math like Joseph Webb is saying, it's just that the way they've been done from the start favours a left to right reading and doing it another way requires more work for little advantage, because one assumes that the human that imputs the data understands what needs to be done... otherwise the human won't understand the answer anyway.Taerdin said:You are right, we are not computers. People can interpret the question wrong, the computer is told how to interpret questions properly to correctly solve them.
Computers don't have flawed logic, that statement doesn't even make sense. Computers are nothing but logic, they don't have various interpretations of something, they have one, what was programmed into them. When it comes to math this means they are right. If computers were so flawed logically and terrible at math then why do we bother having calculators, or programs like matlab? We solve problems far too complex for humans to do by hand all the time on computers... it's practically what they were invented for.