Poll: Whats with the My Little Pony craze?
- Thread starter Tiger Sora
- Start date
People stopped obsessing over you not liking the show a while ago, man. Now they're mostly focused on your hostility, which really needs to get toned down a few notches. Especially when you're comparing the situation to Islam and Al-Quaeda, that is completely not cool. To either party.Emilin_Rose said:
Also: "those creepy people your mummy warned you to stay away from" means pedophiles. I don't care what you want us to think you meant when you said it, the only thing anybody's mother ever warned them about on the internet was pedophiles. So that's not kosher either.
I don't see how it implies pedophilia, so much as the guy from simpsons in the comic book store.Condor219 said:
I was referring to the 90's panic about how internet nerds would destroy their children by addicting them to video games and other such things.
it was meant as a comparison for how reactive both sides are being to a rather stupid issue.
I apologize if I came off as hostile. I'm simply taking my frustration with the whole fad out here, since while none of you try to change my opinion, everywhere else does. And I never meant to state my opinions as facts, I simply wrote what i believed.
also, to chowderface: the Islamic faith crisis in the modern world is a perfectly valid comparison. I never said any of you were akin to al-quaida, just that there are people among the fandom that act like al-quaida does for the Islam faith, refusing to believe anyone who thinks otherwise is anything but satanic evil needing to be purged. And while most people are not like that, unfortunately those are the one who are most vocal about it and thus garner the most attention and set a negative impression of the group as a whole rather than a few extremists.
No, okay, I'm not lettin' this go. It absolutely, 100% implies pedophilia, and on top of being offensive and demonstrably untrue, it's insulting the intelligence of the rest of us to try and pretend you meant something else. Nobody's mother ever warned them about "people like Comic Book Guy", and there was never any "panic about how internet nerds would destroy their children by addicting them to video games and other such things," ever, because back in the 90's no one actually expected "internet nerds" to breed. You just pulled those out of your ass because you thought you were so clever, talking over our heads, but oops, we're taller than you thought and now you're the bad guy. Put on your big girl panties and take responsibility; you're long past the point of winning this argument and as it is you'll be hard pressed to even lose gracefully.Emilin_Rose said:
Second, it is absolutely not cool. Comparing fans of the show to Al-Qaeda blows the fans' attitude way out of proportion, which is irritating and stupid, and it trivializes the problem of Al-Qaeda for Muslims, which is outright offensive. I'm not a politically correct person, but I DO try to be respectful of people who have views other than my own, which frankly is something you could learn about (protip: acknowledging that they have them does not count as being respectful).
It does not imply pedophilia, it implies less than honorable intentions. Pedophiles fall under the category i suppose, but i was more focus on the star-wars conspiracy theory crazies that everyone seems to think the internet is made of apart from snooki tweeting about whatever. Maybe i had a different childhood because i wasn't allowed to use the internet until i was 14 because my family was scared i'd turn into some twisted sociopath. Maybe it was just my family and their friends. I don't think was but I don't know about your childhood or anyone elses. In short I wasn't calling you pedophilic, you did that on your own. I was calling you completely and utterly insane. And some of you are. I will consent however, that maybe this isn't the time nor place for namecalling. I'm simply using the techniques used to disarm and debate against ponies elsewhere, and for that i apologize.chowderface said:
Secondly: I was using reasonable terms to describe a similar situation on a smaller scale. I never trivialized anything nor called anyone a terrorist. I was pointing out how public opinion of the bronies was destroyed in the eyes of the mainstream, due to the few crazies out there trying to shove their opinions down everyone's throat. I've never trivialized any of the suffering that the Muslim followers have faced, just the ridiculousness of a small group of utterly insane people ruining their image in the eyes of the masses by trying to force anyone who does not think the same way to convert to their ways or face drastic, ridiculous consequences. The only thing i'm trivializing is how people are so reactionary to these things. If I had made a comparison to Nazi Germany, no one would have batten an eye. Wound too fresh? oh well. If the world is ever going to get over the "Muslim scare" they're going to have to be able to have a serious discussion about or in comparison to Al-Quaida without everyone throwing up their hands in utter shock.
Don't label me as a heartless jerk. I may not be as emotionally invested in these matters as the people of the Muslim religion themselves are, but that doesn't make me totally ignorant. Before i graduated, i was lab partners with a girl from Iraq. She'd often be crying in the girls bathroom. I sat with her every time she did that i was at school. She told me i'd never understand, but was glad that i tried. She's right. Being Agnostic and entirely antisocial, i'll probably never have to feel the outright hate that some people throw at her, never have to worry about my family being bombed at some point. And in a lot of ways i'm grateful for that. She was so much stronger than anyone else i've ever met. Even when she left, she was still ready to go back to her family. I don't know what happened to her, i haven't heard from her since, but one thing i told her, always told her, was that we would get past it together. Maybe not holding hands or anything, but just like slavery is being fought by almost all developed countries, as a human race we will move forward. And to be told i'm trivializing something like that? I'm honestly offended sir. I'm simply making a comparison. That's like saying a classroom shouldn't use a slanted table, dirt, and water to show what happens to the lot because people have died from floods.
The "war" magical-mermaid-jesus-king Bush got us into was never a war of terror or religion. It was a war of a less-than-competent leader{who didn't actually win the popular vote, by the way) against a man so crazy even the people who shared his religion and his God, thought he was insane.
Would you prefer i compare something else? Having only played 1-3, i don't know much about silent hill but if you say the word i'll happily go back and edit all the comparisons to Alikening you to the Order{who, like al-quaida, are an excellent example of exactly how inhuman a human being can act toward another and a cutting look into what anyone could become when faced with something they cannot prove nor disprove but are determined to make you follow their thoughts anyways, because what happens to them if they're wrong? It isn't something anyone would like to think about, and yet some do think about it harder than others.)
Ok folks. I've just watched the first episode.
I have to say that rather being a cult it is cult.
For a story that's essentially about a load of magic ponies in a land full of other magic ponies it's got suprisingly good writing (speaking as someone who had to live through her sister watching awefully written television shows when she was younger).
It's definately cute, but from a female perspecive I don't quite understand why lads like it too... maybe it's a socially accepatable way to indulge your softer side?
Yes, I may watch another episode at some point (damn two-parters get me everytime!) but not while I've got revision to do!
I have to say that rather being a cult it is cult.
For a story that's essentially about a load of magic ponies in a land full of other magic ponies it's got suprisingly good writing (speaking as someone who had to live through her sister watching awefully written television shows when she was younger).
It's definately cute, but from a female perspecive I don't quite understand why lads like it too... maybe it's a socially accepatable way to indulge your softer side?
Yes, I may watch another episode at some point (damn two-parters get me everytime!) but not while I've got revision to do!
Well, we're just plumbing new and exciting depths of hate speech today with Emilin Rose, aren't we, children? Let's break down everything that's wrong with you still trying to make out like you're the good guy in this debate.
Incidentally, since you brought up the Nazis, I could technically stop right here, because Godwin's Law dictates that you just lost the argument. But I'm such a nice guy, I think I'll keep going.
Here's the thing. Even if I do give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you really, genuinely didn't mean "pedophiles", everyone, not just me, thought you meant "pedophiles". That doesn't mean that you're so much cleverer than the entire rest of the thread, oh-ho-ho, aren't you smug; that means you communicated badly and thus it is entirely on YOU that we took what you said the wrong way. That's what I learned from MY family and THEIR friends. If you really wanted to call fans of the show "utterly insane", you would chosen your words differently. Perhaps you would have come right out and used the words "utterly insane", or maybe some clever analogy about hobos ranting on street corners. Instead, you chose a phrase which everyone jumped on as having one very specific meaning, and then tried to backpedal when they called you on it and it turned out to make you look bad.Emilin_Rose said:
Oh my God. You owe every Jew, Pole, homosexual, and about ten other demographics, in the world an apology. People absolutely would bat an eye if you'd made a comparison to Nazi Germany. They would have reacted as badly, if not worse, than the comparison you're already making. "Reasonable terms" weren't even in the building when you got involved here. Not only are you trivializing Al Qaeda now, you're trivializing the Holocaust as well. I am not saying people don't need to talk about this. But if you're seriously going to compare some fans of a television show which teaches friendship and tolerance to a bunch of religious extremists, YOU need to STOP talking about it, because you can only do more damage.
Incidentally, since you brought up the Nazis, I could technically stop right here, because Godwin's Law dictates that you just lost the argument. But I'm such a nice guy, I think I'll keep going.
If I were your friend, I would disown you just for using this anecdote in this context. For a start, that she was Iraqi was irrelevant to the discussion, unless she specifically WASN'T a Muslim, and you were trying to point out that she was tormented anyway; from context though, I'm gathering I was meant to assume, just from the fact that she was Iraqi, that she was a Muslim, so again, well done on those communication skills. Either way, you've just taken a girl who was unjustly harassed based on her nationality and turned her into a Black Friend. You have taken her suffering and used it to prove how you couldn't possibly be bigoted or insensitive about this issue, and that is one of the most insensitive things you could possibly do. She's no longer a person, with problems and likes and dreams, who brushes the dog every night so his coat stays healthy, and has to figure out how to make rent this month, and gets hayfever every spring; she's someone who's Different who you parade around to show everyone what a great person you are for accepting her. In other words, your story proving how you're not trivializing this issue, further trivializes the issue. Bravo. Do remind me to attend your next speaking workshop.
Completely irrelevant political commentary, and irrelevant political commentary I've heard elsewhere, often better-said.
What you don't seem to understand here is that you're taking a bunch of people who like a television show, who have done nothing whatsoever to harm or offend you, and in fact go out of their way to try to conduct themselves according to the show's peace-and-love message, and comparing them to the most murderous of examples of religious extremism. It doesn't matter if you switch to a comparable fictional example. You're still calling them murderous nutjobs, when they are at best a little bit Jehovah's Witnesses. And you know what? You probably would have gotten away with making THAT comparison. People probably would have laughed and said, "Yeah I guess we are a bit. Would you like to hear the good word about our Lord Pinkie Pie?" Instead you opted for the most inflammatory comparison you could, knowing full well people would react badly, so that you could act all high and mighty and victimized when they did. I really, sincerely hope that this entire debate was one massive troll, because the thought that you were actually serious this whole time and thought you were making good, reasonable points is frankly kind of disgusting.
chowderface said:
I was comparing you to the nutjobs on the street corner gabbing about the end of the world
Of course in this case it was people who hacked a poor woman's facebook, posted gore and scat to it, along with several racist comments, simply because she posted that she didn't like MLP on the wrong board.
You have yet to point out how i've trivialized anything you know. I never said the two were on the same scale, just that the psychology of the actions was the same, and the reaction of the people seeing the actions has them prejudiced against all of the pony fans, not just the ones who seem to think "friendship and tolerance" means "burn the heretic that dislikes this show".
Bronies are cardboard dollhoses compared to the grotesque torture mansions of the Holocaust and Al-Quaida, and i never said that they weren't. Just that they are motivated by the same basic psychology manifesting in different forms. Those forms being the Bronies "Omgpeacelovehappiness if you don't like it you are a monster and must be punished", the Nazi "Aryan supremacy" and Al-Quaida's belief that anything not of their religion must be burned. Also, you want to know a bit of history trivia? People never talked about the horror of Germany in public conversation. No one wanted to acknowledge it. If people had been willing to make connections from one basic behavior to one hitler was taking advantage of, we may have been willing to enter the war in time to stop some of the horror. Not all of it, but some.
So you're saying as a Muslim she should be prejudiced against?Nice to know i'm not the only "monster".
Disown me? Prove that i'm not bigoted? I told that story to give you the reason i'm not afraid to make connections between one human behavior and another. Also, it wasn't prejudice from her peers. It was people on the street giving her dirty looks because of her race, or people who started a conversation with her out and about that quit talking to her the moment they knew she was Muslim. I never said she was "different" as a person. Everyone has some story to tell and i was telling hers, the story of someone stronger than you or i will ever be. The story of a girl who walked to what could very well be her death and found a reason to smile when she did. It's a story that deserves to be told. You think i don't think of her as a normal person? You're right. I think of her as my hero, a great woman who is braver than anyone i've met before or since. The reason i'm not afraid to walk home in the dark, because i know nothing will ever be as bad as waiting in a foreign country wondering if your family is ok, if they're even alive. There is nothing that someone could conceivably do to me that is more terrifying than having to get back on a plane to go back to a place where you could die any time. She actually smiled at me before she left. She's my hero and i'm not afraid to tell people what she went through.
If it were as simple as people who like a television show, and go out of there way to show peace and love{see my unfortunate example above about the woman's facebook, which lost her her job by the way), then i would be perfectly fine. I simply posted a frustrated opinion on a board and you and another pony jumped on it as a reason to paint me as a monster because i don't like the show. The difference here is the other pony was reasonable and willing to drop it when i further explained{what should have been obvious, granted) that it was simply my opinion that the show was bad.
I didn't post a comment initially that was designed to inflame. I got in a fight with two bronies, one of whom I don't even know the goal of, because he is NOT going to make me like the show, no matter what he does.
As i said before, i was using an example relevant to our times to point out{as i have repeatedly now) that on a much smaller scale, the psychology of the bronies as a group is similar to what Al-quaida did to the Muslim religion, a few insane people ruined the image of the group.
Interestingly, the Muslim religion shares the same roots as Judaism and Catholicism, and religious murder is frowned upon by all three to say the least. By much the same psychology, on a much smaller scale, some bronies decided that "happiness and friendship" meant hack a woman's facebook and ruin her life simply because you can and she hates your ponies so you can get away with it.
Frankly i don't know where you think you're going with all of this. You claim i trivialized, yet you never point out where or how you think i did. You claim that i used my hero as a "black friend", when i'm simply telling her story as an example of how these people aren't all insane, the same way ON A MUCH SMALLER SCALE SINCE YOU TEND TO IGNORE THIS PART not all bronies are insane.
But now i'm wondering why you're so desperate to make me into a monster. I get that you want to defend yourself, but i never aimed my points at you. I was taking about it here because i assumed the psychotics from 4chan and other boards would have been banned by the staff before they could cause too much chaos or threaten to hack anyone's account.
The only thing i can think of that would make you act so reactionary is that you felt it was directed at you. I didn't want to say 4chan specifically for fear of bringing them here, as mentioning it does seem to be a jinx on yourself, but unless you are one of those that was involved in the hacking and general hatred on anyone who thinks differently than you about the show, i haven't directed any of this at you.
Oh my head...
Plus, I'll give you some more trivia. People weren't "not talking about the horror of Germany" before the war. People were really fucking concerned about what Hitler was getting up to. Look up the Stresa Front sometime, or some of the things they did to try and appease Hitler. Sure, they didn't work, and the benefit of hindsight tells us they were pretty dumbfuck maneuvers. Shit, Churchill even thought it was stupid at the time, and thought Hitler was a threat! And if the politicians are talking about it, at least some of the public is talking about it. But at the time, they thought the Stresa Front and appeasement strategies were the best way to prevent a war. They weren't sitting there with their heads in the sand, any more than YOU are progressive for throwing around Al Qaeda and Nazi Germany like they're no big deal.
You know what people DO talk about? 9/11! But we're too busy talking about how a few Muslims here and there are terrible people to notice that most of them are just random assholes like you and me, trying to get by. So people are still scared to death of Muslims. Talking about things is only helpful if you ask the right questions, otherwise it's just a big circlejerk of terror and bigotry, and "talking about the issue" the way you are is only going to do more damage.
Guess again. I'm saying that you're a racist for assuming I'LL assume she's a Muslim just because she's Iraqi, unless the point was that OTHER people did that when she wasn't. If she was Muslim, you should have said that instead of "Iraqi", because that was the important detail of the story. You would think my little speech about why you're a horrible person for making her a Black Friend would have made that clear.
You don't get to tell those stories. It's like calling yourself "underrated". It's just a sign of a planet-sized ego looking for recognition. Other people get to tell those stories. If your friend had come onto this forum herself and told this story, that would be different. That might actually go some way towards convincing me you're really a caring person who just happens to be kind of insensitive to the reality of some of these problems you're going on about. Instead, you told me how once a time, you were nice to a girl who was going through a lot of trouble because of what she believed, and that makes it totally okay for you to say a mostly harmless group of loons is exactly the same thing as the people ultimately responsible for her trouble, and oh by the way you're totally impressed the way she didn't let it completely destroy her life, that makes you a good person too right? There's no way to tell that story without looking like you're being self-aggrandizing. You can't make the point you claim you're trying to make by telling that story; if you want it to have any kind of meaning at all, next time you tell that story, don't mention your involvement, that you gave her a shoulder to cry on and she was just so touched that you were trying to understand; just tell them how strong your friend was and how much you admired that. Mentioning your part is only going to make cynics like me think you're fishing for praise.
I really, REALLY want you to understand why this is not okay. That's ultimately why I'm not bowing down to your obvious superiority here. I want at least one of us to come away from this discussion a better person and I think we're already beyond the point where that's gonna be me. Just...stop assuming I'm trying to completely vilify you here, and think for three seconds together about what I'm telling you, and what you've said. Entertain the notion that it's possible you've been genuinely offensive here, and I'm trying to correct you, rather than just having a knee-jerk flipout because you're hating on a show I kind of like. I'm very sorry you've had bad experiences with other fans of the show, but you don't appear to recognize the irony of saying that justifies you making any kind of comparison to Al Qaeda, or the Nazis, or Silent Hill's fictional murder cult of murder and killing.
Look, maybe you really do mean all this jabber in the most innocent way possible. The more you talk, the more willing I am to apply Hanlon's Razor to this whole debate. Just recognize that I am thinking very carefully when I specifically choose the concept of Hanlon's Razor, and if you do persist in claiming there wasn't anything offensive about what you said or the way you said it, you ARE admitting to the other implication of the Razor, which I think I'll let you discover for yourself.
Let me rephrase this in terms you'll understand. EVERYONE THOUGHT YOU MEANT PEDOPHILE. THEREFORE, BY THE PRINCIPLES OF THE SO-CALLED TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY, YOU GODDAMN MEANT PEDOPHILE. TRYING TO PRETEND YOU DID NOT DOES NOT MAKE YOU LOOK BETTER.Emilin_Rose said:
I've said it time and again, you're just too busy enjoying your martyr complex to care. By making the comparison at all, you're implying that bronies are on the same level, that they are, in fact, just as bad as Al Qaeda. This in turn implies that Al Qaeda, tautologically, is on the same level as bronies. Therefore, Al Qaeda is just the same as some guys on the internet who are a little bit weird about a television show no one expected to be any good. So, Al Qaeda isn't much of a problem and if we ignore them eventually they'll die down. Good job not trivializing that problem there, kid.
Plus, I'll give you some more trivia. People weren't "not talking about the horror of Germany" before the war. People were really fucking concerned about what Hitler was getting up to. Look up the Stresa Front sometime, or some of the things they did to try and appease Hitler. Sure, they didn't work, and the benefit of hindsight tells us they were pretty dumbfuck maneuvers. Shit, Churchill even thought it was stupid at the time, and thought Hitler was a threat! And if the politicians are talking about it, at least some of the public is talking about it. But at the time, they thought the Stresa Front and appeasement strategies were the best way to prevent a war. They weren't sitting there with their heads in the sand, any more than YOU are progressive for throwing around Al Qaeda and Nazi Germany like they're no big deal.
You know what people DO talk about? 9/11! But we're too busy talking about how a few Muslims here and there are terrible people to notice that most of them are just random assholes like you and me, trying to get by. So people are still scared to death of Muslims. Talking about things is only helpful if you ask the right questions, otherwise it's just a big circlejerk of terror and bigotry, and "talking about the issue" the way you are is only going to do more damage.
Guess again. I'm saying that you're a racist for assuming I'LL assume she's a Muslim just because she's Iraqi, unless the point was that OTHER people did that when she wasn't. If she was Muslim, you should have said that instead of "Iraqi", because that was the important detail of the story. You would think my little speech about why you're a horrible person for making her a Black Friend would have made that clear.
You don't get to tell those stories. It's like calling yourself "underrated". It's just a sign of a planet-sized ego looking for recognition. Other people get to tell those stories. If your friend had come onto this forum herself and told this story, that would be different. That might actually go some way towards convincing me you're really a caring person who just happens to be kind of insensitive to the reality of some of these problems you're going on about. Instead, you told me how once a time, you were nice to a girl who was going through a lot of trouble because of what she believed, and that makes it totally okay for you to say a mostly harmless group of loons is exactly the same thing as the people ultimately responsible for her trouble, and oh by the way you're totally impressed the way she didn't let it completely destroy her life, that makes you a good person too right? There's no way to tell that story without looking like you're being self-aggrandizing. You can't make the point you claim you're trying to make by telling that story; if you want it to have any kind of meaning at all, next time you tell that story, don't mention your involvement, that you gave her a shoulder to cry on and she was just so touched that you were trying to understand; just tell them how strong your friend was and how much you admired that. Mentioning your part is only going to make cynics like me think you're fishing for praise.
I can't imagine how you might think "You bronies are just like Al Qaeda" wasn't intended to inflame; if your intent had been to evoke the notion of a small portion of them causing problems for the greater, harmless whole, you would have compared them to Muslims at large, instead; but I'm guessing that we're not really getting anywhere, and you're still pulling shit out of your ass so you don't have to admit you were wrong. I'm not ignoring you when you say "on a much smaller scale". I'm trying to tell you why saying so is meaningless. You didn't come out of the gate saying "it's like Al Qaeda, but on a smaller scale," you just compared fans of the show to Al Qaeda, then had to backpedal when people got offended and started making you the bad guy for your baseless condemnations. You didn't even say you were only talking about some of them; you just said "bronies are like Al Qaeda". Even if you had been saying that from post the first, it would still be incredibly offensive, because off the top of my head I can think of five different ways you could have called bronies nucking futs (there's one right there) without ever saying anything that could possibly be interpreted to be implying murder. You seem really attached to this comparison, though, so the only conclusion I can draw is that deep down you actually do think of bronies as a bunch of murderous, overzealous lunatics bent on assimilating by the sword of they can't do it by the word, and that's frankly just as bad as the white man being afraid of Muslims just because they don't kneel in front of a cross to pray.
The reason I'm being so reactionary here is, and you'll laugh at this, I don't give a shit about your opinion of the show! All I care about is that you don't seem to have any clue how any of what you're saying could possibly be offensive to any of the parties involved, and frankly that makes me sort of ashamed to share a species with you. You're saying all these words and you probably think it makes you sound SO CLEVER because it all makes sense in your head, but you're completely blind to the implications of the words you're using.
I really, REALLY want you to understand why this is not okay. That's ultimately why I'm not bowing down to your obvious superiority here. I want at least one of us to come away from this discussion a better person and I think we're already beyond the point where that's gonna be me. Just...stop assuming I'm trying to completely vilify you here, and think for three seconds together about what I'm telling you, and what you've said. Entertain the notion that it's possible you've been genuinely offensive here, and I'm trying to correct you, rather than just having a knee-jerk flipout because you're hating on a show I kind of like. I'm very sorry you've had bad experiences with other fans of the show, but you don't appear to recognize the irony of saying that justifies you making any kind of comparison to Al Qaeda, or the Nazis, or Silent Hill's fictional murder cult of murder and killing.
Look, maybe you really do mean all this jabber in the most innocent way possible. The more you talk, the more willing I am to apply Hanlon's Razor to this whole debate. Just recognize that I am thinking very carefully when I specifically choose the concept of Hanlon's Razor, and if you do persist in claiming there wasn't anything offensive about what you said or the way you said it, you ARE admitting to the other implication of the Razor, which I think I'll let you discover for yourself.
Okay. Now i know you aren't reading all of what i posted. My first comment was a frustrated jab at the show and its creator, about how i couldn't wait for her to stop making the show, by whatever means necessary.chowderface said:
Also, why does it matter whether my friend was Muslim or not anyway? The point of the story was that she was strong enough to walk to what could be her death and not break down crying. That is a feat most men don't have, no matter their religion.
And i truly don't see how i was meant to offend anyone with the comparisons. My personal belief is that America would have gone into the war sooner if everyone didn't treat the topic of what Hitler was REALLY doing as a sort of taboo, "oh lets talk about something else" sort of topic. The kind you don't talk about over dinner.
All i meant to do was point out the fact that in both situations, a small portion of a group negatively defined the rest in the view of outsiders.
But maybe some of my posting was a bit out of line. I am not one to think about sensitive issues, well, sensitively. I find race and religion to be a rather dumb topic to talk about, when biologically every human has the same exact 28 genes. As such I tend to not understand why someone is offended. My history was taught by a public school, so it was probably skewed to make America out to be less of a jerk by saying 'no one talked about what Hitler was really doing', rather than actually fighting to stop him, and while i usually try to re-research my facts, i assumed that one was true because i usually think of my country as stupid more than jerk. I apologize for that. Really, if I did offend anyone, i'm sorry. I don't get why it would be offensive, but i'm sorry anyways.
I do believe in my earlier posts, however, that i did compare them to the Muslim people at large. Let me see. Here we are.
And while i could have used another group, and probably should have, that poor woman was basically 'murdered' as best one can through the internet. Lost her job, lost her boyfriend, her family wouldn't talk to her. It honestly makes me glad i never use facebook for much of anything.
So re reading everything I think i may have been overharsh. While i will never like the show, I never meant to imply that all bronies were otter-raping insane, only that a few were, and it made people who aren't as into the internet think badly about the group as a whole. I apologize again if that's what you thought.
I read every word. Someday you'll learn that "reading and comprehending" doesn't automatically mean "agreeing with and supporting". I point out once again that if you communicate badly (which you did), with the result that I misunderstand you (which my cynical side tells me didn't actually happen here), the fault lies with you for communicating badly in the first place. Trying to make me the bad guy for not understanding is like hitting a guy with a shovel and expecting him to pay for a new one now that your nice shovel's all dented.Emilin_Rose said:
No, the point of the story as YOU told it was that you were a great person for Accepting someone who was Different when No One Else Did. I couldn't tell whether you were saying people tormented her because she was Muslim (making them assholes) or Iraqi (making them racist assholes), and I couldn't tell which one you thought was important, only that you seemed to think one of them was.
Early on in our little debate you offered to change the comparison to some murder cult out of Silent Hill. Having a general idea how these things go, I'm willing to bet that this cult isn't a smaller, extremist offshoot giving a bad stigma to the main group, they're just the group in it's entirety. The instant you made that comparison, you forfeited the right to backpedal and claim that you meant anything other than that the entire demographic is a bunch of frothing murderers. And please don't insult me by saying you were being sarcastic. If anything, sarcasm as poorly timed as that would be WORSE than if you were serious.
But maybe some of my posting was a bit out of line. I am not one to think about sensitive issues, well, sensitively. I find race and religion to be a rather dumb topic to talk about, when biologically every human has the same exact 28 genes. As such I tend to not understand why someone is offended. My history was taught by a public school, so it was probably skewed to make America out to be less of a jerk by saying 'no one talked about what Hitler was really doing', rather than actually fighting to stop him, and while i usually try to re-research my facts, i assumed that one was true because i usually think of my country as stupid more than jerk. I apologize for that. Really, if I did offend anyone, i'm sorry. I don't get why it would be offensive, but i'm sorry anyways.
I do believe in my earlier posts, however, that i did compare them to the Muslim people at large. Let me see. Here we are.
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How very white of you. Listen, there's a difference between "talking sensitively about an issue" and "pussyfooting around it entirely;" that difference mainly being that the first one is actually productive. Phrases like "we're all the same 28 genes underneath" is all well and good, although I'm pretty sure you actually meant chromosomes, but talking like no one really gives a shit about past atrocities is a recipe for disaster even if you're not calling people murderers in the same breath. And especially don't try to defend it as a legitimate philosophy because no matter who taught you your history, I'm damn sure your parents taught you not to be an asshole.
The term you're looking for is "character assassination." And you don't need Facebook for it.
NO, REALLY? YOU WERE OVERHARSH? PERISH THE THOUGHT. This entire debate could have been avoided if you'd just thought about what you were saying for three seconds in a row instead of charging blindly forward, so convinced that the world needed to hear all the clever things you had to say you forgot to check if they were actually clever or just stupid and offensive. You don't get takesies-backsies just because it turns out a bunch of Philistines decided to take your charming rhetoric as a base and vitriolic personal attack; and you really don't get to make them the bad guys in the argument for not understanding how witty you really are. I think we're done here.
Its a good show. Just because it doesn't fit into the "manly" category doesn't mean men shouldn't enjoy it. If they don't enjoy it just because it was meant for girls, they're succumbing to peer pressure, or the equivalent.
And then I scroll through the pages to see more responses and there are massive walls of text. What the hell is going on! xD
Okay now you've confused me. You told me to go sit down and think of any possible way i could offend someone with what i said. So i did, made an itemized list, and apologized to all of them. And now you're screaming NO TAKE BACKS? what the hell?chowderface said:
You're like some horrifying combination of a hardcore fundimentalist and a bad calculus teacher. All you're saying is "wrong" "still wrong" and "no that's wrong". You've yet to explain why its wrong so i'm forced to take the little kid route and just apologize without any understanding of why.
You said you wanted me to come away from this a better person, but i think that's a lie.
You get all upset because i made a relevant comparison to current events that just happened to point out that SOME of your "bros" are completely insane and people who are horrible. You've never addressed that by the way, the fact that they did such a horrible thing to that woman{In case you arne't interested, since you obviously want to block out anything bad your fellow bronies have done: Last thing anyone knew of the woman, Susan, i'm not going to post her last name, was getting evicted after her boss fired her over what they posted on her wall. Since your last job is one that they call to see why you're fired, she's probably in a box somewhere), other than to say "its called character assassination".
You claim i'm saying "all ponies are fucking suicide bombers", but not once have i said that. I said some of you were committing a small scale terror attack on one poor woman who posted on /co/ that she didn't like the show.chowderface said:
Also, I'm getting really sick of this. You try so hard to vilify me, without any qualifying statements. I wasn't the only one who accepted her. I was her friend. She told me her struggle and i took it to heart. She walked to what would probably be her death. Most people who do that won't look back and smile at you. I didn't post that she was a Muslim because it's irrelevant. Many Iraqis are treated poorly, regardless of religion, because people automatically think they are Muslim. It doesn't matter what race you are born as, going back into a warzone should be the scariest thing in the world. I would have broken down in tears. You would have too. She's stronger than i am. She's stronger than you are, i have no doubt. The point of the story was that people were treating her poorly her entire time here, with absolutely no right to do so, and then wait for her weekly call from her family, not knowing whether they'll be alive the next week, and then, on top of that, on top of all her other struggles, she has to go back and risk dying alongside them. I'd like to see you do that. I know i couldn't.chowderface said:
Also, you don't say how i was being an asshole. I see nothing assholish about this. I pointed out that while bronies as a whole are a decent lot, if sometimes annoying, there are a few who are awful. Your much more intelligent brony Condor gave appropriate arguments, and a fair debate about the subject. You just keep finding every little irrelevant thing to go off about, and every time i post something keep shouting the equivalent of "LIBERAL PROPAGANDA DO NOT BELIEVE THEIR LIES" and taking everything i say at the worst place you possibly can, as well as twisting my words. I looked again, hard, through all my posts. I never once said "all bronies are evil". You said that in your all in all rather pathetic attempts at vilifying me.
You try so hard to raise yourself on a pedestal above me, yet you barely acknowledge what a few of your fellow bronies have done. You acknowledge that it happened, but you never say you think they are wrong, or give a reason why they shouldn't be compared to a small-scale terrorist group. You just go on and on that i'm wrong and that i shouldn't be saying bad things about how part of your group is made of people who take peace and happiness to mean "if you don't like what we like, we destroy you".
So yes we are done here. You have completely contradicted yourself. You demand an apology and when you get one, you throw it in my face. I'm forced to compare you to this man here, your actions as a brony being a tiny scale model of his actions as a Muslim.
You know, one thing i will say, you are good at this whole thing. Buying sympathy by saying "I want one of us to come out the better person". It was so small and unobtrusive that i actually almost believed it, even sat down, read my posts over with my friend in new york, the exchange student she has living with her from china, my other friend, my mother, and my grandmother{who by the way was forced to flee germany as a little girl from the nazis. She found nothing wrong with my statement), all at their computers, set up a livestream, showed them all of both of our posts, all of them said they could find nothing intentionally offensive, even when thinking "oh but what if you replaced muslims with ...{whatever makes it more like it was talking about you), but we all sat down and made a special little list, just for you, of everyone who could ever POSSIBLY be offended, no matter how reactionary they'd have to be to be offended.
Honestly you fall on one of two sides here. Either you are the woman pictured above, or you just wanted to fight with someone and saw an opportunity to pick one when someone didn't like your show and saw what those fellow bronies of yours did as a moral outrage and a small scale terror attack, as well as proof that a brony can be as inhuman as anyone in this world can be, and thought "game time".
But you are correct in one thing. Now that i know you're a troll, this argument is over. Go troll somebody else.