Poll: What's wrong with piracy

[The Chaz]

Yeah. Thats not how it works at all. The most successful games are the ones that tend to be the most expensive.

The overall cost of games has gone up because EVERYTHING has gone up in every single market. That is how the market system works.

My theme park example was a metaphor, as was the bit about the rise of ticket prices. The rise in ticket prices represents penalty. In fact, your statement, "the cost of games has gone up because EVERYTHING has gone up in every single market" is false. I assume you're referring to inflation. Inflation occurs when the volume of money increases, thus decreasing the dollar value. Even though the price tags read a dollar or so higher, things are just as affordable. The game's price is not my strict concern.

If you go back and read my original statement, I said, "now these people who were doing the right thing all along are being punished for the disobedience of others." That is my concern. Valve Co-founder, Gabe Newell, has spoken multiple times on companies attempting to battle piracy by "inconveniencing" customers. That's that punishment thing I was talking about.

Furthermore, who regulates piracy? You know, that guy who says who can steal and who can't, what's his name? Dammit, it's right on the tip of my tongue! This is going to bother me all day!

Yes, if Activision makes $3,000,000.00 in sales, and lose $6,000,000.00 due to pirating -it is true- they have still earned $3,000,000.00 dollars. But, again, who says it will stop at $6,000,000.00? What happens when the revenue lost due to shrink surpasses what is considered "acceptable"? You can expect some of that inconveniencing to be coming your way.

So, again, my issue is not that video game prices have risen due to piracy, or even that they will raise. My issue is that it is unfair. Transactions on this level are simple. You give, you get. Pay money, get game. Give game, get money.

In closing, I would like to regurgitate myself again, "Those who pirate are stealing, not only from the industry, but from those citizens; their fellow gamers. So, in short, it is unfair and insensitive. That is why it's wrong."

 

[Vault101]

stealing or not..hurting the industry or not

Piracy is the reason DRM exists

 

[LBringer]

Text Wall Incoming:

With the example with the amusement park, (I'll bite) make the fence not chain link but 50 meter high meter thick cement walls so no one can see in and then advertised with a lot of flashy stuff that may or may not have anything to do with the park itself (but hey, it looks sexy).

I'm not saying piracy is 'right', but as companies are trying to drain everyone of their last cent because Cliffy needs another Ferrari to drive I think it's going a bit overboard. The problem is that everything's starting to hit way outside a median. Developers are getting screwed by their publishers because the publishers want more money to play with (hell, some publishing heads don't even LIKE games, but want some crap pushed out yearly for the money), publishers want to force more purchases to they implement DRM (even though piracy has been around since before Doom, and keep in mind they HIRE DRM companies to do this for them in a lot of cases, increasing prices). Do the developers deserve the support? Sure, but perhaps some of that should be from the publishing companies that are the ones that make money hand over fist.

Honestly, I look at piracy (while it is this LITTLE), as something that actually is necessary in this economy. In some cases, that's word of mouth that creates a sale, in some cases the pirate buys it, in others is stops sales because the game is crap or someone simply doesn't buy it. WHY they don't buy it can take many forms from outright a-holes that are simply self entitled to the people who are extremely long time fans but just can't afford it at the moment (this also leads heavily to used game sales or people waiting the month or two before the game drops in price by 25-50%).

If the publishers didn't try to scam people with cut out launch day DLC to $5/$10 people's wallets to death, the inflated value (single disc dual layer games with uncompressed textures for $60? really?), the massively inflated price of 'collector's editions' which are hacked up and want people to buy it 3x (from different stores) to get all of the 'collector edition' stuff (and even then charge $80-$150 per 'edition'), not even releasing DLC from consoles on PC (Saints Row 2); then perhaps people would buy the actual games more often. It also doesn't help that some of the 'elites that buy the games' like to ruin it for everyone else by spoiling stories or other things for the people that had to wait (Dumbledore dies btw).
When corporations fight dirty, fight dirty back (why take it in the tailpipe without even saying something).

tl;dr: Piracy in its current form is grey, it's both bad and good at the same time. Is it going to grow massively out of control? Not if the companies manage to shut the hell up about it and so the masses don't actually KNOW it's possible. Is it a POTENTIAL lost sale sure, but it for damn sure isn't even close to 1:1. Does it allow people that are huge fans to continue to enjoy and even potentially support the companies when they can? Sure. Is Piracy THEFT? No. Is it bad, yes. Is it the almighty SIN that people try to make it out to be? No.

 

[dessertmonkeyjk]

I keep hearing people pirating game just so they can try them out and then buy the actual game... WTF?!

1. You literary stole a copy of the full game.
2. Just because you can buy a copy doesn't mean the one you stole should of been on your computer in the first place.
3. What's going to stop you from just running off with that stolen copy anyway? It's the full game and you don't need to do anything else.
4. Um... don't do it?

 

[Singularly Datarific]

I see it as wrong if the product still has a viable alternative to piracy.
If it is a 15 year old game that nobody sells anymore, I say go on ahead.

EDIT: Piracy exists because it is a BETTER alternative to buying DRM-loaded $60 games. When you make it more annoying to the people that actually BUY the damn game, then it's only going to ruin it for them more. You're advertising piracy when you only punish the people that buy the real game. I mean- always-on DRM?!? How stupid are you?!? How do you think that that will combat piracy?!?

 

[MPerce]

...piracy is wrong because it's stealing. It's taking someone's work and not paying for it. That's not fair. The end.
Even if the game made a lot of money, it's still wrong. You didn't personally destroy the game studio, but that's still money that deserves to be in that developer's hands.

 

[Savagezion]

2. Just because you can buy a copy doesn't mean the one you stole should of been on your computer in the first place.

Just because you have a copy of the game on your PC you got for free doesn't mean you will not support the game.

3. What's going to stop you from just running off with that stolen copy anyway? It's the full game and you don't need to do anything else.

The fact that people aren't dumb asses and know that buying the game supports the game? The fact that you are asking this only shows you clearly aren't responsible enough to be handed a free copy of the game to check it out and see if it is worth 60 bucks. The temptation is greater for some then others. That why there are people out there that pirate to get free stuff and some that don't. Life is kinda crazy like that sometimes.

 

[Wintermoot]

pirating new games means devs don,t get the money.
pirating old games means the seller won,t get any money.
I don,t see anything wrong with pirating old games/out of print/not available in your region since the dev,s don,t get an money anyway IMHO.
also some people want to freely modify/reinstall there games and allot of DRM prohibits this.

 

[Blue Musician]

In my opinion in first worlds countries there is no excuse for piracy. At all.

However, I stand that in third world countries it is a whole different issue. The issue is of the availability and actual possibilities of acquisition of a product. Take for example Mexico: a game costs around $60-70 USD for a game from 2001 (in this case, the original Halo for PC). The minimum (and average) wage of a Mexican worker? Less than $4 USD per day. This would be around 15 days of work, without spending them over that time. Now if we make counts for the amount of the salary spent on food, clothing electricity and water, acquiring creative products are not very possible, to the point were piracy is the only option, both from an entertainment and educational point of view.

For example IMSLP [http://imslp.org/wiki/], while not actually following the copyright of Mexico, if it closed down it would be and actual hit for the music schools, due that it is the only place where sheets are reliable and available. Mexico has a copyright of 100+ years, and as aforementioned piracy is actually needed to be able to obtain anything.


Why do I have the feeling that 71% of the Escapists are from First world countries?

 

[TheTaco007]

It is acquiring something you would normally have to pay for for free. IE Stealing, which is amoral. There is an argument for "Well, I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it," and honestly, I'm ok with being a little amoral if it means I get to save money.

 

[fenrizz]

It has been said before, piracy is pretty much stealing, regardless of how many units the game sells. If you download a game you already own, that´s another story, but unless you do, it´s really that simple.

Actually, simply put it isn't stealing, it's copying without permision from the publisher

theirs a word for that i believe its "stealing"

No, the word is copyright infringement.

No matter how you feel about piracy, it is not theft.

 

[LBringer]

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

 

[DracoSuave]

That why there are people out there that pirate to get free stuff and some that don't. Life is kinda crazy like that sometimes.

And it's those that do it to get free stuff that are the reason why developers are trying to combat piracy.

I do commend you on one thing; at least you're not so naive as to pretend those people don't exist. Most pro-piracy arguments take that group of people and when people mention them, you can see the abject denial decend like a dark cloud of obsfucation. I practically expect one to go 'Don't look at that wizard behind the curtain!'

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

Fair Use.

Try a different strawman.

 

[ecoho]

Let me start off by saying that in all my life I have torrented 1 game, Doom 1. I have also been given a pirated version of Age of Empires 2 (a game I already owned but needed to run off a memory stick). Thats it, and both of those files are long gone.

None of this however is a moral objection to piracy, I have no objections to people that do it, I mainly don't pirate due to my desire to have a large physical collection of games, and the fact that old games are easier to find through legitimate means which usually work better. But when I see people complain about piracy I often wonder, why are you against it? I understand that there are some situations where piracy is harmful, like if a game sells poorly or if it is in support of a charity, but who gives a shit if a game like Modern Warfare 3 or Skyrim is pirated.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

ok go to patv.com and watch the extra credits episode on piracy.

 

[suitepee7]

Let me start off by saying that in all my life I have torrented 1 game, Doom 1. I have also been given a pirated version of Age of Empires 2 (a game I already owned but needed to run off a memory stick). Thats it, and both of those files are long gone.

None of this however is a moral objection to piracy, I have no objections to people that do it, I mainly don't pirate due to my desire to have a large physical collection of games, and the fact that old games are easier to find through legitimate means which usually work better. But when I see people complain about piracy I often wonder, why are you against it? I understand that there are some situations where piracy is harmful, like if a game sells poorly or if it is in support of a charity, but who gives a shit if a game like Modern Warfare 3 or Skyrim is pirated.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

in the same essence, is it wrong to steal something from a shopping outlet? thats all it is, stealing. anybody who says otherwise is in denial about the crime they are committing.

 

[Savagezion]

That why there are people out there that pirate to get free stuff and some that don't. Life is kinda crazy like that sometimes.

And it's those that do it to get free stuff that are the reason why developers are trying to combat piracy.

I do commend you on one thing; at least you're not so naive as to pretend those people don't exist. Most pro-piracy arguments take that group of people and when people mention them, you can see the abject denial decend like a dark cloud of obsfucation. I practically expect one to go 'Don't look at that wizard behind the curtain!'

I think that comes from the fact that the industry uses a large dose of hyperbole to make piracy look like more of a problem than it is. Basically, if they are going to claim that every downloaded copy is a lost sale and just people looking for free stuff, it stands to reason that one can claim none of the downloads are people looking to get free stuff. To agree with either of those sides will make you hypocritical. Both are wrong and I disagree with both equally.

It is simply the other side of the coin. I wouldn't call myself "pro-piracy" by any means. I just am a guy looking for the ounces of truth in the tons of BS from both sides. It irritates me when pirates claim it is an innocent act just as much as it irritates me when the industry acts like it is tearing down the economy of the industry and that they are victims of some heinous underground. Both are gross exaggerations. The truth is in the middle. There are pros and cons to piracy and any morality to it is on the individual. It simply has a lot more to it than right and wrong.

 

[Andy Beaumont]

Personally, I have downloaded several games.... original sims city, dungeon keeper. All games I owned but in moving have lost the discs to... I recently downloaded oblivion as I had never played it before, loved it, and have now bought skyrim BECAUSE of that... I usually buy pre-owned games and I don't ever download new games, at least within a year or two of their release. So yes this may be doing harm to a store like gamestop etc... but not the industry as a whole...

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

OK then, let me put it this way: paying money for games is good enough for millions of people, what's so fucking special about you that you figure you should get the same games for free?

 

[LBringer]

Fair use

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

Fair Use.

Try a different strawman.

Fair Use:
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include?
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a
commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted
work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted
work.

How does that allow you to sing it when she could make money from it? The scope of the Fair Use portion of the law is intentionally vague to allow people to not allow Fair Use. I'm not charging someone for the software, and since it's a copy and not a retail disc it doesn't impact the market as there's not less to sell.

Now, keep in mind I don't believe piracy falls under fair use, but on the same note that song technically wouldn't by the same intellectual property copyright.

 

[Kingjackl]

People can justify it all they like, but, like all theft, piracy is ultimately the taking of someone else's property (or in this case, the product of several months of hard work), without due recompence. You can crow about how a few downloaded games don't affect the big picture, or that those pirates wouldn't have brought it anyway, but the fact remains that you are freeloading, plain and simple.

What's also notable is that the majority of video game piracy takes place on the PC, and PCs are by nature expensive for gaming. So it makes even less sense that a person couldn't just buy the game.