Poll: Whitewashing, yay!!!

[EternallyBored]

Those exosuits look stupid as hell, the action scenes look awkward too, still, at least sci-fi seems to be gaining some traction in Hollywood again, this new wave of high-tech future action movies with power armor and drones is kind of an interesting trend, at least more interesting than yet another zombie movie.

OT: Actually, this looks like one of those cases where I would consider whitewashing the characters to be at least partially appropriate in this situation. The movie may be adapted from a Japanese light novel, but the whole movie is being adapted for an American audience, not just plopping Tom Cruise in a Japanese unit for no reason.

It is kind of screwed up that the Japanese novel is actually more diverse than the movie adaptation, with the American female soldier still being the same, it looks more like a case of "America! Fuck Yeah!" than a movie about humanity coming together to fight off an implacable time traveling alien menace, but I haven't seen the movie so I don't know how close that is to the truth.

As for whitewashing in general, yeah it's a screwy thing to do, but it only really bothers me when they are trying to jam white people into historical movies that don't involve white people, or they try to make the white person look like a member of an ethnic group while simultaneously making all the background characters the actual race they are trying to display. In those cases, it comes off as a little patronizing, I can't think of any situations of the reverse happening though.

I don't think you can tell accents. Emily Blunt is not only British, but she was also using a British accent in the trailer.

The character she plays in the novel is American, it's possible they made her British for the movie, seems kind of arbitrary, but one of the core parts of her character in the novel was apparently being a U.S. special forces soldier, so until I see otherwise, a British accent doesn't really make the movie less America! Fuck Yeah! if all she has is an accent while still being an American special forces soldier.

Watching the trailer again, some of the shots seem to be in London, so there might be a weird reversal where Cruise is actually playing the foreigner, and Blunt is the local, which would be in reverse from the novel, and on the other side of the planet. Still on an island nation though, if they were going to do that, you'd think they'd just keep it in Japan and make Cruise the foreigner being helped by a Japanese special forces soldier. I'm not going to try and make sense of Hollywood's warped sense of logic for things like this though.

 

[likalaruku]

I just read an article about upcoming adaptations over at Cracked that's going to keep me away from Hollywood for another 4 years.

 

[EternallyBored]

Those exosuits look stupid as hell, the action scenes look awkward too, still, at least sci-fi seems to be gaining some traction in Hollywood again, this new wave of high-tech future action movies with power armor and drones is kind of an interesting trend, at least more interesting than yet another zombie movie.

OT: Actually, this looks like one of those cases where I would consider whitewashing the characters to be at least partially appropriate in this situation. The movie may be adapted from a Japanese light novel, but the whole movie is being adapted for an American audience, not just plopping Tom Cruise in a Japanese unit for no reason.

It is kind of screwed up that the Japanese novel is actually more diverse than the movie adaptation, with the American female soldier still being the same, it looks more like a case of "America! Fuck Yeah!" than a movie about humanity coming together to fight off an implacable time traveling alien menace, but I haven't seen the movie so I don't know how close that is to the truth.

As for whitewashing in general, yeah it's a screwy thing to do, but it only really bothers me when they are trying to jam white people into historical movies that don't involve white people, or they try to make the white person look like a member of an ethnic group while simultaneously making all the background characters the actual race they are trying to display. In those cases, it comes off as a little patronizing, I can't think of any situations of the reverse happening though.

I don't think you can tell accents. Emily Blunt is not only British, but she was also using a British accent in the trailer.

The character she plays in the novel is American, it's possible they made her British for the movie, seems kind of arbitrary, but one of the core parts of her character in the novel was apparently being a U.S. special forces soldier, so until I see otherwise, a British accent doesn't really make the movie less America! Fuck Yeah! if all she has is an accent while still being an American special forces soldier.

Watching the trailer again, some of the shots seem to be in London, so there might be a weird reversal where Cruise is actually playing the foreigner, and Blunt is the local, which would be in reverse from the novel, and on the other side of the planet. Still on an island nation though, if they were going to do that, you'd think they'd just keep it in Japan and make Cruise the foreigner being helped by a Japanese special forces soldier. I'm not going to try and make sense of Hollywood's warped sense of logic for things like this though.

The very first part of the trailer shows them flying over the Cliffs of Dover (aka, not America). I know everyone likes to think every single action movie these days is "America Fuck Yeah!" but you're grasping at straws here.

location doesn't mean much if all the characters are playing Americans, plenty of movies focus on Americans in foreign countries. Not that any of it is relevant, you seem to be grasping at one minor point to take issue with, even in my first post I mentioned that all it was, was a first impression based on the trailer, the point was a non issue at best, and I mentioned I didn't notice the London shots until watching it again, so your getting bent out of shape over nothing.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I?d only really care if their race was an important part of their character. I don?t mind changes to the original source material to an adaptation, as long as it retains the basic themes of the story and can be judged as a good film on its own merit (e.g. Kubrick?s A Clockwork Orange).

 

[Saltyk]

But there is a video that fits so much better.

Thanks for posting that. I was trying to remember where I'd seen it and couldn't find it. It's probably not the biggest deal in the world, but yeah. Accurately, he's drawn asian, not european.

It seems that it was taken down. The video I found stated as much and that they put it up because of that. It's still needed, as the issue still comes up every so often. Hell, even I use to think that a lot of anime and video game characters looked white. Watching that video helped me realize my own misconceptions.

What makes it really odd is the fact that Shyamalan is Indian. So perhaps he was wanting to show off more of his own people in the casting? And Zuko is a favorite character of mine. Still, I agree that the whole role reversal in terms of race is very perplexing. Race was never really brought up in Avatar, but it was a heavily Asian influenced series. And the characters were obviously nonwhite. To specifically make the heroes lighter skinned while making the villains darker skinned does lead itself to sounding racist.

Mind you that movie has worse offenses to answer for. Earth Bending... That wasn't Earth Bending...

Doesn't MNS have a history of casting brown people in villainous roles? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

But yeah, this is far from the biggest problem with either movie. Shyamalan probably shouldn't have been involved with TLA in the first place. Bad child actors are a bigger issue than white child actors. Brown people as bad guys and whites as good guys? Puzzling, but nowhere near the biggest sin. If it were a better movie, I think fewer people would notice or care. But it's sort of the cherry on top, rather than a substantial portion of the sundae.

And yeah, there's the overall trend. People try and justify it in the narrower scope of any given movie, but how often it happens is troubling. But then, in TLA, it was never mandatory that people be a specific race.

...Couldn't they have at least made Sokka funny, though? Damn!

I know he tends to appear in a lot of his movies in some minor role. In Signs, he was the man that killed Mel Gibson's wife, for example. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

And yes, the bad acting is a problem. But looking at some of the other issues, like pacing, it could be bad directing more than bad acting. Seriously, they didn't even ask Aang his name until they reached the temple, and his backstory was explained without any of them showing onscreen. Everything was done poorly. The whole movie is a disaster. And it just makes the white washing stick out more.

The worst part, is that there was so much potential in the concept. I don't think we ever really needed a movie, as we have the show, but the movie could have been amazing if done right.

Making Sokka funny might have at least made it watchable, though. Not that they got Katara's personality right either...

 

[Uhura]

Why not pick actors like Daniel Henney for roles like these?

Spoiler

He's American (born in Michigan) so you wouldn't even need to cast a foreigner for the leading role. And it's not like Hollywood hasn't taken chances on relatively unknown male leads before. Sam Worthington wasn't a household name when he was hired as the lead in Avatar and Terminator Salvation and neither was Chris Hemsworth when he was hired to play Thor. And what was the celebrity status of Henry Cavill when he was hired to play the Superman? Or Hugh Jackman when he was hired to play Wolverine? Or Shia LaBeouf when he was hired to play the lead in Transformers. Studios don't seem to have any issue with hiring semi-unknown actors as the leads of their blockbuster movies... as long as those actors are white. As soon as we start talking about hiring non-white actors, the recognizability of the actor all of the sudden becomes an issue.

 

[mecegirl]

But in the kind of film like this, war action thing, I don't know any asian actors who would be good for the role. The two examples I used wouldn't be, and I don't know many others.

You need to expand your horizons.

Ken Watanabe would be a much better stand-in for a Japanese badass character than Tom Cruise ever could.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You silly! There are no good Asian actors besides Jet Li, Jackie Chan, and Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee is dead! Don't you see! they had no choice but to cast a White man in the role!

Screw that noise!

What about Sonny Chiba? He was Hattori Hanzo for fuck's sake.

*fury*

Ha ha. Why not. Another face that needs more screen time.

 

[Dansen]

If anything, I'd be more mad at the upcoming adaptation of the 47 Ronin; a tale whose source material originally had all-Japanese characters but this adaptation took the liberty of putting Keanu Reeve as the lead role.
It's as if Hollywood is so frightened that a movie set in a foreign country wouldn't sell if there wasn't a caucasian person in it. That or someone was really eager to cast Keanu Reeves as a samurai.

Yeah that strikes me as wierd, but I dont mind it too much for a couple of reasons. Keeanu Reeves hasnt been in a movie for a while, and at some point in the trailer the mentioned that he is a halfbreed, which implies that he is at least partially asian. Of course I could be wrong about that. I know its based on an embelishemnt of a true story, so depending on when said story takes place it could be utter BS. Still I'm glad that hollywood is branching out a little with this film even though it is probably out of desparation.

 

[mecegirl]

People are far too used to seeing movies with majority white characters in "important" roles. Hollywood is used to using stories with a majority white cast and then realizing that they did so after the fact. Then they want to switch roles around because they know how it would look to not have at least one minority in these films. Especially if the film is set in a metropolitan area. Well that's their failing, they need to get better at picking stories with diversity built in. So to take a story like the OP's example and whitewash the cast seems unnecessary. We all know there is a good chance that only a handful of those roles will be left for Asian actors. Which is why there are so few big name Asian actors now. How the hell are they supposed to get well known if they aren't given the chance to shine? Even if the story is retold but in America there are Asians in America. Set the movie in certain parts of California and they would be set as far as realism is concerned.

The first Hunger Games movie demonstrates why I'm not cool with whitewashing. It was some fans reaction to the casting of Cinna (Lenny Kraviz) and Rue(Amandela Stenberg)that convinced me. They claimed that Cinna was "black washed" but the chracter has no physical description as far as skin goes. Even Katniss had a description of her skin tone, she is called Olive skinned. What is worse it that the writer of the books was there for the auditions. She was fine with Kravitz as Cinna, so why can't the fanbase be? She has said in interviews that Panem is not only a racially diverse place, but because it was in the future most people have mixed ancestry anyway. So for a chracter with no distinct racial markings why not cast whoever they see fit?

And the hubub with Rue was worse. Way worse. Not only was she explicitly described as being brown skinned in the book, but in an interview the writer states that the people from Rue's district were African American. But some were convinced that she was "black washed" because of their shitty reading comprehension. Rue reminded Katniss of her sister. (Her pale skinned, blue eyed, blonde haired sister Prim. Katniss looks just like their dad who has olive skin and dark hair, while Prim looks like their mom), but Rue was described as having brown skin twice. Add the 'I don't think that actress looks innocent enough' complaints to the mix and ugh... http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/racist-hunger-games-fans-that-failed-reading-com

 

[Something Amyss]

It seems that it was taken down. The video I found stated as much and that they put it up because of that. It's still needed, as the issue still comes up every so often. Hell, even I use to think that a lot of anime and video game characters looked white. Watching that video helped me realize my own misconceptions.

It's a shame it got taken down.

Thing is, Anime characters can be vague enough there aren't immediately obvious indications. Still, it's common for people to make media based on themselves and their culture as a reference point. I mean, it doesn't have to be that way, but to think pretty much an entire genre/medium of this scope in Japan was drawing mostly white people....Yeah, that should set off someone's Spidey-Sense.

I know he tends to appear in a lot of his movies in some minor role. In Signs, he was the man that killed Mel Gibson's wife, for example. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

Nah, MNS casting himself in mostly bit parts or doing wal-ons is nothing new or special. Hell, technically, he played a more messianic role in Signs, because he's the one to first directly point out the aliens' weakness to the main characters. Plus, the whole point of the movie appears to be that God intended it, therefore he's not really the bad guy.

And if I keep talking about Signs, I will end up in a frothing rage, so best to move on.

And yes, the bad acting is a problem. But looking at some of the other issues, like pacing, it could be bad directing more than bad acting. Seriously, they didn't even ask Aang his name until they reached the temple, and his backstory was explained without any of them showing onscreen. Everything was done poorly. The whole movie is a disaster. And it just makes the white washing stick out more.

I do wonder what they called him before then. "hey, iceberg kid!"

The worst part, is that there was so much potential in the concept. I don't think we ever really needed a movie, as we have the show, but the movie could have been amazing if done right.

There's something special about seeing something on the big screen, knowing millions of others will also see it. I think that's why gamers still go to see gaming movies, despite knowing they're usually ass. And despite the fact that it takes out player interaction, which is one of the main reasons I think most of us game. It's an interactive media. but still, there's that big screen allure.

And there will always be transitional issues, too. TLA had hours and hours to build up the characters, leading to one of the strengths of the show. They had to do that in two hours. I can understand that. But yeah. The way they just dumped all sorts of exposition on us...Some exposition was necessary. That wasn't just some. And quite a lot of it could have been shown instead.

Making Sokka funny might have at least made it watchable, though. Not that they got Katara's personality right either...

Almost nobody was adequately covered in the movie, but Sokka was a real travesty because he was the most...Colourful.

Also, he and Zuko have the best character arcs. Not the only good ones by any mean, but the best. That didn't give me strong hopes for the franchise even if they did continue it.

 

[RedRockRun]

Who gives a shit? It's an adaptation, and adaptations can change nationalities. Kurosawa adapted the novel "Red Harvest" and set it in Japan when it was originally in America. It seems like people only get offended when Americans adapt things.

 

[TheRiddler]

Race changing normally bothers me, but not enough to be a deal breaker. I mean, I'll be a bit annoyed and start tutting disapprovingly, but as long as the movie looks good, I'll still probably watch it. I liked Thor despite the fact that Idris Elba was playing Heimdall. And the whitewashing wasn't really my most significant problem with The Last Airbender (thanks to a multitude of other problems, courtesy of Shyamalan).

So, I'll say this: Race altering is a point against most movies that engage in it, but often not in and of itself something that will actively stop me from watching it.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I don't know what you mean by justified to skip. It's a movie. You watch it or you don't, on whatever basis you want. You are always justified in not watching a movie whatever weak excuse you may have.

As far as whitewashing, I have no problem with white people being white characters in a place where that makes sense. I would have a problem with an all-Japanese character lineup becoming other races but still being in Japan and supposedly Japanese people, I would have a problem with a Japanese main character becoming white while other characters remained Japanese, etc. But if the adaptation is that the setting is culturally different then there you go. Although admittedly it's more likely that it wasn't artistic vision so much as they wanted Tom Cruise to be the main actor for reasons not necessarily related to him being white.

 

[Skull Bearer]

I?d only really care if their race was an important part of their character.

So if the plot had to do with their race it's okay for them to be POC, but otherwise they'll have to be white because white is default?

THIS is why whitewashing sucks balls. It establishes one ethnicity as 'default' and everything else as deviation from the norm.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

If the adaptation is made wholesale (ie. the entirety of the fiction is moved west), then I have no issue with casting whomever. The strange thing is when you have Jake Gyllenhal portraying a Prince of Persia, despite not looking or sounding remotely Persian (I still enjoyed the movie nonetheless). If the above is still set in Japan but a white actor is chosen to play the lead, then I'd be much more wary.

But why get up in arms about this? It isn't the first time it's happened and won't be the last. Fact is that big names help sell a film and men in general, perhaps American men in particular, apparently cannot relate to non-white non-male leads. Males in general do exhibit a gender bias with their choice of media, be they games, books, film or TV shows which women do not nearly to the same degree.

 

[EyeReaper]

Eh. I saw the trailer in theaters, it looked ok, A sci fi Groundhog day is a cool concept and all.

Do I have a problem with them changing the characters? not really. I mean, I didn't even know it was based on a light novel in the theaters, and I'll bet a lot of people who will see it probably won't either. If the actor is good at the role, let him have it. I was fine with black Nick Fury, I was fine with black Hiemdall, I would've be fine with black Human Torch, and I'm also perfectly fine with Tom Cruise being asian sci-fi Phil Connors.

 

[Snowbell]

Yes. They're bringing out a Black Butler film - an anime/manga about a British lord and his demon butler. And every single character will be Japanese.

I understand that they're doing a kind of alternate version, setting it in the future, but it won't be the Black Butler I love and I won't be watching it.

I've been told I'm casually racist for assuming that because I perceive anime characters to be white they should be portrayed in films as white, but in this case I am justified since the whole thing is set in Victorian London and the Phantomhives are a very longstanding British family, reducing the likelihood that they would be Japanese immigrants. All I can do now is hope to God that Lau, Ran Mao and Soma retain their identities as Chinese and Indian respectively.

 

[Playful Pony]

I can't see why he couldn't be asian though, even if the cultural setting is diferent. I have non-white friends here in Norway and I don't consider them any less Norwegian than me. They have lived here for as long as they can remember, and should be just as capable of portraying "modern Norwegian person" as I am.

So if the plot had to do with their race it's okay for them to be POC, but otherwise they'll have to be white because white is default?

THIS is why whitewashing sucks balls. It establishes one ethnicity as 'default' and everything else as deviation from the norm.

Well said...

Fact is that big names help sell a film and men in general, perhaps American men in particular, apparently cannot relate to non-white non-male leads. Males in general do exhibit a gender bias with their choice of media, be they games, books, film or TV shows which women do not nearly to the same degree.

I really REALLY don't understand this, cause I have absolutely no touble identifying with a character of a diferent race or gender than mine. I just can't get my mind around WHY someone would have trouble with that, it seems completely alien! Is it me not being a man that does it? Maybe because I'm not American? I kinda think (hope...) white male Americans are better than that.

The "big names sell films thing", now that I understand. I can also only asume that is why they made the change in the first place, they wanted a big-name American actor for the role. I guess thats fair enough...

 

[Sir Christopher McFarlane]

I am open to changes in race of a character if you make a previously white character be some other race. The other way about, given how much preference white characters receive already, I am not cool with. You have few quality characters to be played by POC.

 

[Ieyke]

Depends.
If the movie is unphased and still good, then it doesn't matter.
If you're whitewashing half the cast of a movie, like The Last Airbender, and the netire story revolves around battling nations, fuck no that's not okay.

Making Heimdall black despite that he really should've been white (since he's a viking god)was weird, but he was still great and the movie was great, so it's all good.

Just kinda depends on the movies and what the changes mean to the individual movie.