Poll: Whitewashing, yay!!!

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Apr 5, 2008
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Playful Pony said:
KingsGambit said:
Fact is that big names help sell a film and men in general, perhaps American men in particular, apparently cannot relate to non-white non-male leads. Males in general do exhibit a gender bias with their choice of media, be they games, books, film or TV shows which women do not nearly to the same degree.
I really REALLY don't understand this, cause I have absolutely no touble identifying with a character of a diferent race or gender than mine. I just can't get my mind around WHY someone would have trouble with that, it seems completely alien! Is it me not being a man that does it? Maybe because I'm not American? I kinda think (hope...) white male Americans are better than that.

The "big names sell films thing", now that I understand. I can also only asume that is why they made the change in the first place, they wanted a big-name American actor for the role. I guess thats fair enough...
To give a perfect example of this kind of thing, think of the film "The Great Escape". It was (based on) a true story about British PoWs in WWII who got recaptured after successfully digging their way out of the camp. Why was Steve McQueen in it? For the sole reason that American audiences wouldn't watch the movie if he weren't.

To be honest, using "white" and "American" isn't necessary. Bearing in mind this is a broad, but quite fair generalisation, it's actually more simply a "male" thing. Boys and men (across the world, across different cultures and socio-economic backgrounds) are more inclined to look up to, watch films and shows, read books written by and play games starring, males.

Recently on Facebook, one of my favourite authors posted a link on her public FB page to an interview she did. One of the questions was about why she changed her name on her book covers from "Jennifer Fallon" to "JJ Fallon", to which she answered that gender bias, particularly among male readers, more so among male genre fiction readers means female authors don't get nearly as many sales or as much recognition as their male counterparts. I asked if that was true on her post and she replied to me directly (I must admit I was quite star-struck that she was engaging me in FB conversation!) and said it was. She said it's the reason Joanne Rowling wrote under JK Rowling and why Harry wasn't Hermione.

I actually read some interesting articles on the subject after she messaged me since it never occurred to me that such a thing happened. McIntosh, Fallon and Haydon, all female fantasy writers are among my favourites and I can't imagine why another man would pass up a book for no reason other than because it was written by a woman. But the sad fact is they do. In a way, it's the same reason the leading Hollywood male stars generally out-earn the ladies and an extension of the tiresome and ongoing debate about women in games.

As a woman, it likely doesn't occur to you whatever the gender is of the protagonist (or creator) in most fiction (at least it doesn't dictate whether or not you'll read, watch or play it). Women in general don't show nearly as much gender bias in terms of authors they'll read either and IMO when it comes to things like films, shows and games, because so much of them do generally put a male in as the "default", it's simply accepted.
 

JetFury

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May 31, 2013
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Yeah whitewashing is a real problem. It depends on the extent and the story of course but I find it hard to believe there are still so few non white leads on the scene in 2013.
 

VanQ

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Oct 23, 2009
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Seriously, who cares?
If a black/asian/other person plays a character that was originally white it's totally okay.
If a white person even dares to play a character that was originally any other race it's racist and whitewashing and bigotry and patriarchy and you get the idea.

Fuck that double standard.
 

Thaluikhain

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VanQ said:
Seriously, who cares?
If a black/asian/other person plays a character that was originally white it's totally okay.
If a white person even dares to play a character that was originally any other race it's racist and whitewashing and bigotry and patriarchy and you get the idea.

Fuck that double standard.
But the double standard that half of every movie made must be about a white male lead, that's perfectly fine?
 

Erttheking

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I don't know. This really pissed me off in Last Airbender. Not so much here. Then again, Airbender was a trainwreck from start to finish and the actors were kinda shit. This doesn't bother me that much because...when you think about it it's not really adapting the original story, it's based off of it. If it was adapting it, I'd be pissed off. As such it's just taking ideas from a Japanese story and using it to make an American story. As such I'm not even sure this qualifies as whitewashing.

P.S.: Also it kinda sounds like this is as close as we're ever getting to a Dark Souls movie. And an asskicking female main character? I think I might give this movie a shot.
 

Genocidicles

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I just dislike changing a character's race just because it's a change from the source material.

If a character is Asian in the original work? Keep them Asian in the adaption. Same goes for if they were White, Black, Hispanic whatever.
 

TehCookie

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Skull Bearer said:
Relish in Chaos said:
I?d only really care if their race was an important part of their character.
So if the plot had to do with their race it's okay for them to be POC, but otherwise they'll have to be white because white is default?

THIS is why whitewashing sucks balls. It establishes one ethnicity as 'default' and everything else as deviation from the norm.
What about Heimdall(sp?) from The Avengers being made black? Race didn't matter so they changed it. Or is it only bad if they make it white, but it's fine if they change someone to a minority? To me changing race is change race. It doesn't matter what is originally was or what it's changed to.
 

Dismal purple

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A Swedish movie is doing the other way around. Casting a brown boy for a role that was originally played by an aryan gentleman. (Jönssonligan)
 

Chaos Isaac

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Like, if a character was changed for a way superior actor who just has it fucking down, then yeah, the performance will probably overlook the white washing.

But if you Shyamalan/Avatar it, I will boomerang you in the face.

Or something like that.
 

Thaluikhain

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TehCookie said:
Or is it only bad if they make it white, but it's fine if they change someone to a minority? To me changing race is change race. It doesn't matter what is originally was or what it's changed to.
The problem is that there is an overabundance of white roles already, and also of roles whitewashed into being white. Doing it the other way around somewhat balances this, but not much.
 

Genocidicles

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wombat_of_war said:
and would you like to explain to the shareholders how come your 150 million dollar budget movie without a huge name actor at the front to draw audiences has flopped? that said it probably will anyway but still it would loose less money with tom cruise than using a relatively unknown actor in the lead
If I had to have a cast full of famous white people, then I wouldn't choose to adapt a novel that consists almost entirely of Japanese characters.
 

mecegirl

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Genocidicles said:
If I had to have a cast full of famous white people, then I wouldn't choose to adapt a novel that consists almost entirely of Japanese characters.
Pretty much this. There are plenty of stories that exist, plenty of novels that could be made into a movie. It's not like it wouldn't be impossible to just pick a story with an all white cast.
 

Axolotl

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Ldude893 said:
If anything, I'd be more mad at the upcoming adaptation of the 47 Ronin; a tale whose source material originally had all-Japanese characters but this adaptation took the liberty of putting Keanu Reeve as the lead role.
It's as if Hollywood is so frightened that a movie set in a foreign country wouldn't sell if there wasn't a caucasian person in it. That or someone was really eager to cast Keanu Reeves as a samurai.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Now we only have six film versions of it with all-Japanese casts.
 

ItouKaiji

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May 14, 2013
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I'm not offended by the changing of the race, just offended by another bland generic looking sci-fi movie. This one looks like a real snoozefest.