Poll: Whitewashing, yay!!!

[Kevin Puszert]

I honestly find the opposite condition more of a problem.

I think white characters are far more likely to be changed for the sake of marketing to a more diverse audience than minority characters are likely to be changed to appeal to a white audience.

 

[Kevin Puszert]

I think it creates an unrealistic perspective and reinforces an unhealthy attitude towards racial diversity to replace a character with someone from a different ethnicity and background. Modern diversity isn't about respecting each others differences, its about forcing everyone to behave the same, to fit the same mold and to put aside their cultural upbringing for the sake of bland unilateral conformity.

 

[Something Amyss]

but apparently it's "genius", "new thinking", "a societal breakthrough" etc. to do something like take the ONE GOD in norse mythology whose fucking title is "The White God", and turn him black.

Unless you want to argue the title was incredibly literal, then I don't really see the argument.

But then again, I doubt many people are calling it "genius" because of his skin colour.

(Also Heimdall in the movie was not the same as the mythological Heimdall)

Probably not that important, though, as people pitched a fit over them casting an Asian as a Norse "God" that I guess was made specifically for the comics in the first place.

However, well put. I mean, more broadly, not this specific part.

Examples, like the Last Airbender, they didn't even pick a huge actor to bank on. And that had a lot of history visually of being Asian themed and they tried it in the movie, which just white actors.

Of course, the casting of whites went specifically to the good guys. They still managed to find plenty of brown people to play the Fire Nation, and they were able to cross an ocean for such casting.

Just a strange, strange deal.

 

[magnuslion]

So I just watched Edge of Tomorrow trailer.
It looks interesting enough
Certainly my cup of tea
One tiny problem though
I looked up source material for it and it seems it was japanese light novel All You Need Is Kill
Main protagonist was young japanese (or at least asian, since I'm not sure about political situation in setting) guy named Keiji Kiriya
And what we have in movie?
William Cage played by Tom Cruise.
Really?
There wasn't any other young asian actor around Hollywood to be casted?
Or at least any other young actor?
Why miss so much when adapting character?
Why even make such unnecessary changes?
Especially in the country that claims equality'n'shit.
At this point I think I'll skip the movie and try to find translation of the novel.
But that is only my personal mini-rant.

Question is
Do you think it's justified to skip piece of adaptation media, if it makes unnecessary changes to race/nationality of main characters?

And bonus question- do you think it's justified in this particular case?

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury, or for Idris Elba to play a Norse god? No, but you only heard a few idiots complain about it. But then I forgot, its perfectly ok to blackwash or yellowwash things, and a sin to "whitewash".

 

[norashepard]

I have no problem with traditionally white characters being played by PoC, unless their whiteness is important to the plot. Obviously Django Unchained wouldn't make much sense if the plantation owner was a south asian man.

I do have a problem with traditionally PoC characters being played by white actors because they are already underrepresented in media, and it doesn't help. I also have a huge problem with PoC playing other PoC, like a black actor playing a South Asian character. White people have the advantage, other PoC do not. Don't steal from them, especially if they are from a race that is almost never shown on screen, like Native Americans.

A perfect example of all of this is the character Isabela from Dragon Age 2. Anyone who has actually played the game knows that she looks very Middle-Eastern/Mediterranean. But in almost all fan-art I see of her, she is either pale white or dark black. Like, come on guys. Really? Her skin is like goddamned red. Character integrity ya dumbs.

In the particular case you've mentioned, yes I am rather cheesed about the race-changing.

 

[madwarper]

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury,

Considering the current Marvel film/tv continuity is taking place in their "Ultimate" universe (Earth-1610), and the Nick Fury in the Ultimate comics is specifically designed after Sam Jackson... I'd say Yes, it was necessary.

OT: If an adaptation is good, I'm willing to overlook changing the races of some characters. However, when an adaptation is terrible, race swaps become more glaring. Such as Goku and crew in Dragon Ball Evolution, Katara and Sokka from Avatar, Kingpin from Daredevil.

 

[FPLOON]

](Although "All You Need is Kill" is a retarded title)

The title, to me, sounds like a pending Beatles slasher flick...

OT: Unless it's a really a KEY component to the story, no matter how it gets adapted in the long run, then why would it bother you in the slightest? You should be more worried if they divulge too much from the central plot or theme of the movie and, if they do change those factors, does it still give the adaptation justice somehow...

To me, I wouldn't care until I see it fully for myself...

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I don'y care as long as it works and they suit it. I said the same with Thor and all that before, that if the actor suits the role and play it well. I have no problem with a race change or even a setting change if it works and is done well. When it does badly and arbitrarily however, it just makes it even worse.

Although on the Heimdall thing Kenneth Branagh has a bit of a penchant for race changes like that.

 

[mecegirl]

But in the kind of film like this, war action thing, I don't know any asian actors who would be good for the role. The two examples I used wouldn't be, and I don't know many others.

You need to expand your horizons.

Ken Watanabe would be a much better stand-in for a Japanese badass character than Tom Cruise ever could.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You silly! There are no good Asian actors besides Jet Li, Jackie Chan, and Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee is dead! Don't you see! they had no choice but to cast a White man in the role!

 

[wulf3n]

Meh, it's hard to get in a huff over this after watching the new 47 Ronin trailer.

If an adaptation is good, I'm willing to overlook changing the races of some characters. However, when an adaptation is terrible, race swaps become more glaring. Such as Goku and crew in Dragon Ball Evolution, Katara and Sokka from Avatar, Kingpin from Daredevil.

The worst part about Avatar was that the rest of their tribe was still Inuit, it made no sense.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I honestly didn't even know "Edge of Tomorrow" was based off something previously, good info. I think the movie-makers are pretty much banking on the fact that maybe 0.5% of all people are going to know that this movie is based on a Japanese novel.

But frankly, no, I couldn't care less.

If Bollywood wanted to make a movie version of "The Hunger Games", I could really care less if they got an Indian cast to play every damn character in the book.

 

[lacktheknack]

Whitewashing only bothers me if the original source had things to say about race relations/racism, and it's being cut out of the adaptation to allow whitewashing.

Otherwise, it doesn't bother me.

 

[lacktheknack]

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury, or for Idris Elba to play a Norse god? No, but you only heard a few idiots complain about it. But then I forgot, its perfectly ok to blackwash or yellowwash things, and a sin to "whitewash".

Are you kidding? I thought I'd never hear the end of the Idris Elba thing. And then, there were many, many complaints that some characters in The Hunger Games that were freaking black in the book were being played by black actors.

Whitewashing is still tolerated more than all the others, but really, I don't think any of them are inherently bad.

 

[Saltyk]

This isn't a thing that I feel there's a uniform one size fits all answer. It's more situational.

For example, I don't care that Heimdall in Thor was black. I didn't really care about the source material, so maybe that's why. But I didn't care that a character had a relatively minor change.

However, I do find it very strange that Katara and Sokka were white in The Last Airbender. What makes it more odd is that the villains were all Indian. It seems like a classic case of White Washing. Especially since Sokka and Katara were fairly dark skinned while the Fire Nation were themselves effectively white. It's very perplexing to see.

Do I get angry at these sorts of things? No, but in the later case, it is a very strange scenario. If the entire thing is changed, like taking a Japanese movie and setting it in Montana, then the changes make sense. Or if finding a suitable actor that fits the race of the character (or if you find someone of a different race who is a perfect fit), that's fine. But changing the character's race just because you can, is where I start questioning the intent.

 

[Saltyk]

Off topic (a little)Why do people say that making Goku a white guy was whitewashing? Is it explicitly stated that he is another race than white? I've seen some Dragonball Z and GT, but I can't say his face is necessarily Japanese looking and the guys hair does turn blonde when he goes super saiyan and he has round eyes except when he looks really angry and he has a pinkish skin-color.

I would address some of what you said here. But there is a video that fits so much better.

Spoiler: Goku's features would probably mark him more as Japanese than anything else

Of course, Goku is an alien. He can be anything. There were far worse betrayals of the characters than that. Like making Yamcha a surfer dude with no combat skills. Seriously, what was that about?

Examples, like the Last Airbender, they didn't even pick a huge actor to bank on. And that had a lot of history visually of being Asian themed and they tried it in the movie, which just white actors.

Of course, the casting of whites went specifically to the good guys. They still managed to find plenty of brown people to play the Fire Nation, and they were able to cross an ocean for such casting.

Just a strange, strange deal.

What makes it really odd is the fact that Shyamalan is Indian. So perhaps he was wanting to show off more of his own people in the casting? And Zuko is a favorite character of mine. Still, I agree that the whole role reversal in terms of race is very perplexing. Race was never really brought up in Avatar, but it was a heavily Asian influenced series. And the characters were obviously nonwhite. To specifically make the heroes lighter skinned while making the villains darker skinned does lead itself to sounding racist.

Mind you that movie has worse offenses to answer for. Earth Bending... That wasn't Earth Bending...

 

[HardkorSB]

stuff

...

And bonus question- do you think it's justified in this particular case?

Yes, I think it is.
This movie probably has a massive budget.
A movie with a massive budget needs to draw many people to the theaters, it needs to have box office draws.
Like it or not, there isn't an Asian actor who would fit this kind of role and draw in Western audience.
Tom Cruise is that kind of box office draw.
Ever since Top Gun, every movie with him in the lead has made a profit.
I think that's a good enough reason.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's just so insulting I don't understand how people tolerate it.

Quite possibly because there's a grain of truth to it?

But there is a video that fits so much better.

Thanks for posting that. I was trying to remember where I'd seen it and couldn't find it. It's probably not the biggest deal in the world, but yeah. Accurately, he's drawn asian, not european.

What makes it really odd is the fact that Shyamalan is Indian. So perhaps he was wanting to show off more of his own people in the casting? And Zuko is a favorite character of mine. Still, I agree that the whole role reversal in terms of race is very perplexing. Race was never really brought up in Avatar, but it was a heavily Asian influenced series. And the characters were obviously nonwhite. To specifically make the heroes lighter skinned while making the villains darker skinned does lead itself to sounding racist.

Mind you that movie has worse offenses to answer for. Earth Bending... That wasn't Earth Bending...

Doesn't MNS have a history of casting brown people in villainous roles? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

But yeah, this is far from the biggest problem with either movie. Shyamalan probably shouldn't have been involved with TLA in the first place. Bad child actors are a bigger issue than white child actors. Brown people as bad guys and whites as good guys? Puzzling, but nowhere near the biggest sin. If it were a better movie, I think fewer people would notice or care. But it's sort of the cherry on top, rather than a substantial portion of the sundae.

And yeah, there's the overall trend. People try and justify it in the narrower scope of any given movie, but how often it happens is troubling. But then, in TLA, it was never mandatory that people be a specific race.

...Couldn't they have at least made Sokka funny, though? Damn!

 

[EternallyBored]

Those exosuits look stupid as hell, the action scenes look awkward too, still, at least sci-fi seems to be gaining some traction in Hollywood again, this new wave of high-tech future action movies with power armor and drones is kind of an interesting trend, at least more interesting than yet another zombie movie.

OT: Actually, this looks like one of those cases where I would consider whitewashing the characters to be at least partially appropriate in this situation. The movie may be adapted from a Japanese light novel, but the whole movie is being adapted for an American audience, not just plopping Tom Cruise in a Japanese unit for no reason.

It is kind of screwed up that the Japanese novel is actually more diverse than the movie adaptation, with the American female soldier still being the same, it looks more like a case of "America! Fuck Yeah!" than a movie about humanity coming together to fight off an implacable time traveling alien menace, but I haven't seen the movie so I don't know how close that is to the truth.

As for whitewashing in general, yeah it's a screwy thing to do, but it only really bothers me when they are trying to jam white people into historical movies that don't involve white people, or they try to make the white person look like a member of an ethnic group while simultaneously making all the background characters the actual race they are trying to display. In those cases, it comes off as a little patronizing, I can't think of any situations of the reverse happening though.

 

[Therumancer]

So I just watched Edge of Tomorrow trailer.
It looks interesting enough
Certainly my cup of tea
One tiny problem though
I looked up source material for it and it seems it was japanese light novel All You Need Is Kill
Main protagonist was young japanese (or at least asian, since I'm not sure about political situation in setting) guy named Keiji Kiriya
And what we have in movie?
William Cage played by Tom Cruise.
Really?
There wasn't any other young asian actor around Hollywood to be casted?
Or at least any other young actor?
Why miss so much when adapting character?
Why even make such unnecessary changes?
Especially in the country that claims equality'n'shit.
At this point I think I'll skip the movie and try to find translation of the novel.
But that is only my personal mini-rant.

Question is
Do you think it's justified to skip piece of adaptation media, if it makes unnecessary changes to race/nationality of main characters?

And bonus question- do you think it's justified in this particular case?

Well, the thing is that it's not the same story but something based loosely on it. Your dealing with a case where this has been re-written a number of times up until this point, the Wikipedia page mentions at least 8 people attempting re-writes of this to make it work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_Of_Tomorrow

From the sound of things what they actually wanted was the basic idea of an alien invasion being defeated by an infinite time loop letting the protagonist(s) do everything perfectly in the end. Other than that it doesn't seem like they cared much about the original work or it's format (books do not always translate well into movies to begin with).

If they were taking the entire thing verbatim and saying this is "All You Need Is Kill" the movie, promoting it that way, and then changing the ethnicity of the character, I'd have a problem with that. It's similar to how they decided to make Heimdall into a black dude in a movie claiming to be Marvel's Thor and his Asgard and similar things like that. In this case they don't seem to be saying this is the same work, or titling it the same thing even, they are just basing it on ideas and concepts from another source.

On a lot of levels it's like "Power Rangers" (I was never into them, they were pretty much coming out right as I was getting out of that age group), the show and it's mythology is so different despite the base material that it's hard to seriously accuse it of white washing.

Not to mention when it comes to Japan there seems to be a lot of back and forth with US and Japanese cultures both making versions of things re-set into their own culture, conventions, and dominant ethnicity. At this point it's a little too late to say much about it.

I will say though that my opinion *might* be different if I ever wind up experiencing the original light novel and the movie and feel that the movie wound up being a whitewashed retread that somehow managed to miss the entire point, something that has happened before when I've become familiar with multiple versions of horror movies or whatever.

 

[Phantom Kat]

Is the race an important feature of the character, the plot or restricted by the setting? If so, then it should remain unchanged. If not, then I really don't care. I also think if characters are of a certain ethnicity then they should be played by someone as close to that ethnicity as possible.

There, of course, would be exceptions to this, but this is the general rule I have towards this.