Sure...i'd be happy if all games playable characters were female because then i wouldn't have to spend 12 hours at a time watching some guys arse bobbing up and down infront of me 
Poll: Would we all be cool with a female Link?
- Thread starter TheRiddler
- Start date
I might play a Zelda game with a female link if there's some reason for it but I don't see how it could be done without seeming forced. Though maybe the option to change gender would be cool. You can already name Link "Scrotumus" if you really want to so he's technically not any set person.
Honestly the prospect of playing as girl link doesn't bother me on its own. It depends whether or not that implies that it will also entail a foppish prince Zelda. While link could probably survive a gender swap largely unscathed Zelda wouldn't without major character overhauls so he wouldn't seem like a condescending pansy. If the character you're doing the whole quest for isn't likable a lot of the investment in it would kinda fall apart.
Honestly the prospect of playing as girl link doesn't bother me on its own. It depends whether or not that implies that it will also entail a foppish prince Zelda. While link could probably survive a gender swap largely unscathed Zelda wouldn't without major character overhauls so he wouldn't seem like a condescending pansy. If the character you're doing the whole quest for isn't likable a lot of the investment in it would kinda fall apart.
Please excuse me. I need to read this aloud while blasting awe inspiring heroic fanfares.Tenmar said:
The massive lopsidedness of this poll pleases me.
Needless to say, I would be totally cool with a female Link.
Needless to say, I would be totally cool with a female Link.
Sure why not? If an unsuspecting gamer puts his personal name on the save game file then "Link" will be named that won't he? Which is to say, if the gamer is a girl by the name of Samantha, and she opens a file with her personal name (which is pretty normal), she'll have every character calling a male persona "Samantha", all I'm saying is, the name is "Link" because he is a link to the gamer itself (that's how I see it); it would only be natural to make this "linking" even more comfy by giving the player the choice of a female persona.
Long time lurker here, this post finally convinced me to register because Zelda is something I know quite a bit about (being a '90s kid and all)
First off, there is nothing inherently wrong with a female protagonist in a Zelda game, but as others have said, simply having one for the sake of having one is not a good enough reason. If Nintendo decided to do a drastic departure from the usual with a new Zelda game and, in that world, it made sense that the protagonist should be a female because it ADDED to the overall experience in a MEANINGFUL way, then kudos, it would probably be a good game.
However, simply gender swapping link doesn't accomplish this, it would only cause a bit of controversy and, undeservingly,a shitstorm on par with the mass effect-pocalypse.
Given that the pieces of the triforce represent three virtues, would anyone really want a one-dimensional female link?
You're courageous girl, but not as smart as that Zelda you have to save
You're strong, but that bad man will always be stronger.
In all seriousness though, the cyclical nature of the Zelda story all but mandates a male link. The story is that of the struggle to balance three virtues, between the evil and good of humanity, it has some rather complicated details, but the core is familiar and fairly cross-cultural. It isn't "Zelda is weak and needs a man to save her" it's that wisdom alone cannot check powerful malice; Courage is needed.
Were the bearer of the triforce of courage to be a female, it would feel very shoehorned into the narrative, as now you have a Wise, observant, but somewhat timid princess, and a headstrong, but simple (almost oafish, as link is) second female who would compare almost completely unfavorably to Zelda (and she must, otherwise the question is raised, why doesn't fem-link have both triforces?)
In short, it is easier to imagine a simple, bumbling, courageous man (and he is simple and bumbling: link does nothing that someone doesn't tell him he has to do) than it is to imagine the same of a woman in a land where special women have very direct connections to divinity.
There are many more arguments to be made from the lore, but let's end this one here. While I think a shakeup would be good for the Zelda series, I don't think throwing away what is (mostly) self-consistent canon to bait controversy is what is needed.
First off, there is nothing inherently wrong with a female protagonist in a Zelda game, but as others have said, simply having one for the sake of having one is not a good enough reason. If Nintendo decided to do a drastic departure from the usual with a new Zelda game and, in that world, it made sense that the protagonist should be a female because it ADDED to the overall experience in a MEANINGFUL way, then kudos, it would probably be a good game.
However, simply gender swapping link doesn't accomplish this, it would only cause a bit of controversy and, undeservingly,a shitstorm on par with the mass effect-pocalypse.
Given that the pieces of the triforce represent three virtues, would anyone really want a one-dimensional female link?
You're courageous girl, but not as smart as that Zelda you have to save
You're strong, but that bad man will always be stronger.
In all seriousness though, the cyclical nature of the Zelda story all but mandates a male link. The story is that of the struggle to balance three virtues, between the evil and good of humanity, it has some rather complicated details, but the core is familiar and fairly cross-cultural. It isn't "Zelda is weak and needs a man to save her" it's that wisdom alone cannot check powerful malice; Courage is needed.
Were the bearer of the triforce of courage to be a female, it would feel very shoehorned into the narrative, as now you have a Wise, observant, but somewhat timid princess, and a headstrong, but simple (almost oafish, as link is) second female who would compare almost completely unfavorably to Zelda (and she must, otherwise the question is raised, why doesn't fem-link have both triforces?)
In short, it is easier to imagine a simple, bumbling, courageous man (and he is simple and bumbling: link does nothing that someone doesn't tell him he has to do) than it is to imagine the same of a woman in a land where special women have very direct connections to divinity.
There are many more arguments to be made from the lore, but let's end this one here. While I think a shakeup would be good for the Zelda series, I don't think throwing away what is (mostly) self-consistent canon to bait controversy is what is needed.
This is my only problem with making Link a female. Every time a "link should be a girl" argument comes up someone says something along these lines. I know it is meant as support, but it is actually the only reason I oppose it. One of the things I like about Link is that he is NOT a masculine badass. He shows to me that being a man and being a hero isn't defined by how much you can lift. Our society tends to place a lot of value on men being tough and strong and muscular, but link isn't any of those things and he still manages to be a man and a hero. To me that is the point of Link, he isn't Powerful (Ganon is the one with the triforce of Power) but that doesn't matter. I think that making him a women now would be too close to saying that Link IS NOT really a man and that the features that he doesn't posses define masculinity. Every other reason to make Link a female is fine with me, but the idea that because he isn't traditionally manly, he should be a woman really bugs me. Seems like it would be making the reverse statement on gender equality than what people want it to make.TheRiddler said:
That said I'm fairly indifferent about making link a woman in one of them. I wouldn't be excited, but I wouldn't care at all either. Would come off as a marketing gimmick to me but as long as it still felt like a legend of zelda game I wouldn't mind at all. A game where you play as Zelda could be pretty cool, especially if you could be a badass Zelda like
Tetra from wind waker or Sheik in OoT
Let the quoting trade commence!
An aside, perhaps my assumptions on the topic were not clear. I'm assuming that the OP's question relies on the fact that the gameplay for LoZ remains the same; A young child destined to be the Hero of Light finds the Master Sword, busts some pots, finds a hookshot plus various tools, struggles through a water temple, and kills Ganon to save the princess and the kingdom. Just make the what was typically a young boy into a young girl (better yet, option it). No change in attire, attitude, ability. Adjust the legend of destiny, if that's the only roadblock. Just to get this out of the way.
Perhaps I'm also conveying my overall point badly as well, so I'll state it clearly: some gender swaps don't have to carry a huge message, or be strongly for or against the "female protagonist movement. I post that here, in a thread about Link being female, because LoZ fits snugly as an example of this point. There may be no gain for adding in a gender swap option, but there's no loss, either.
Take away the point in the legends about a boy of destiny (if that's even accurate), and what do you have?. I think it's somewhat fair to conject that the legend about the Hero of Light comprises the bulk of Link's character; you'll know he'll be courageous, and...a kid, and...o.o...Well, not much else. Link is arguably made to be as impressionable to the imagination as possible. Even taking multiple Links into account, none act with any sort of eccentricities compared to the others.
I'm just under the impression that it wouldn't be...very 'Legend of Zelda' (to be fair, not much out there related to the series isn't). God, I don't want to draw this out, so 'throwaway' example: Link usually carries the triforce piece of Courage, while Zelda usually carries the triforce piece of Wisdom. Given the story environment stays in line, would that itself not at least change how the game makes its approach?
-cough- But of course, there are those who want something 'new' from LoZ. And that's actually fair, and appealing. But how long will it be before you're crying to wield the Master Sword?
You're putting deliberate weight on the fact that Link would be a girl. I'm finding that you're assuming that making Link a girl would actually be important, for both the game, and gaming 'culture' in general.
I choose not to go that far.
I only do this because of various non-gendered circumstances that are consistent in the LoZ universe. I see the scenario of female Link not so strong a favor for gender equality, but neither really distracting from it, too. The beauty of the series is that it's simple enough to hold both genders well.
I'll poke. Why must the gender swap have bearing on the "female protagonist hoopla"?Savagezion said:
An aside, perhaps my assumptions on the topic were not clear. I'm assuming that the OP's question relies on the fact that the gameplay for LoZ remains the same; A young child destined to be the Hero of Light finds the Master Sword, busts some pots, finds a hookshot plus various tools, struggles through a water temple, and kills Ganon to save the princess and the kingdom. Just make the what was typically a young boy into a young girl (better yet, option it). No change in attire, attitude, ability. Adjust the legend of destiny, if that's the only roadblock. Just to get this out of the way.
Perhaps I'm also conveying my overall point badly as well, so I'll state it clearly: some gender swaps don't have to carry a huge message, or be strongly for or against the "female protagonist movement. I post that here, in a thread about Link being female, because LoZ fits snugly as an example of this point. There may be no gain for adding in a gender swap option, but there's no loss, either.
Take away the point in the legends about a boy of destiny (if that's even accurate), and what do you have?. I think it's somewhat fair to conject that the legend about the Hero of Light comprises the bulk of Link's character; you'll know he'll be courageous, and...a kid, and...o.o...Well, not much else. Link is arguably made to be as impressionable to the imagination as possible. Even taking multiple Links into account, none act with any sort of eccentricities compared to the others.
Quite a few people make the case for a Shiek/Zelda protag, and I also think that would be cool.
I'm just under the impression that it wouldn't be...very 'Legend of Zelda' (to be fair, not much out there related to the series isn't). God, I don't want to draw this out, so 'throwaway' example: Link usually carries the triforce piece of Courage, while Zelda usually carries the triforce piece of Wisdom. Given the story environment stays in line, would that itself not at least change how the game makes its approach?
-cough- But of course, there are those who want something 'new' from LoZ. And that's actually fair, and appealing. But how long will it be before you're crying to wield the Master Sword?
You're on a near 1:1 ratio of assumptions to statements in this part, so I can't fairly retort here. I will say this, though; as much as you're entitled to your opinions, guesses, and ideas (and just to be forward with you, I'm finding your response rife with them) just acknowledge that the 'audience' is a fickle thing. Especially for a series holding tradition as strongly as LoZ, it would bifuricate over any change, really.
Ohhhh, I think I get it now.
You're putting deliberate weight on the fact that Link would be a girl. I'm finding that you're assuming that making Link a girl would actually be important, for both the game, and gaming 'culture' in general.
I choose not to go that far.
I only do this because of various non-gendered circumstances that are consistent in the LoZ universe. I see the scenario of female Link not so strong a favor for gender equality, but neither really distracting from it, too. The beauty of the series is that it's simple enough to hold both genders well.
I don't want Link to be a girl, but rather a different character who is not Link and just so happens to be a girl. Anyway the Zelda series has plenty of female characters, Zelda, Impa, Saria, Ruto, Midna, Aryll, Medli THE THREE GODDESSES + HYLIA (ARGUABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS OF ALL) and a lot more. Hell, I noticed in most Zelda games that there are just as many, if not more important female characters than male ones.
Simply having a girl version of a male character is unimaginative and makes her feel less unique.
Simply having a girl version of a male character is unimaginative and makes her feel less unique.
... I don't get these arguments. Why does switching Link's gender have to ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? I agree that it probably should, but why does it have to? Does Link's traditionally male gender ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? Not really. I think that's a part of OP's point: The traits we associate with Link are gender-neutral. Courage, obviously, and other things like resourcefulness, perserverence, the ability to run errands for all the lazy people in town. A woman in Link's role would be just as believable as a dude and I don't understand why the switch would have to be tied to some greater meaning. It's not like OP is suggesting that the Hero of Time's great destiny be swapped to his female descendants forever and ever, amen.
It has to add to the story to provide some reason for changing it. The game started with a male protagonist, and that has been carried through all the games to date. There needs to be a reason to change, otherwise why change it?BrainWalker said:
As a general rule, if there isn't a reason to do something (both in game design and in most parts of life), then it doesn't matter whether it is done or not. Link is traditionally male, thus he will always be male. This is a true statement so long as the alternate case, Link is a female, has no strong reason for occurring. It is bad for brand recognition to change your lead character without justification, and it is unheard of for a series which has gone on as long as LoZ has to make such a change.
Also,
Link's gender does not add anything to the story superficially, there are many and varied lore reasons why he is male, which I can explain in some depth and at considerable length, but we will leave that for some masochist who asks for it.BrainWalker said:
What a male link has versus a female link is tradition. Tradition creates a negative pressure on change. That is how the world works, it is why things evolve slowly in our society and it has implications far beyond LoZ. Another change could easily be, why humanoid? Link could just as easily be a squid. Oddly enough, the canon might support this case more so than a female link, but it's rather ridiculous.
Change alone is not a good enough reason for change.
Innovation/Avant-garde approaches usually spark controversy, no?Diddy_Mao said:
Yay, stalemate on anecdotes. Let's play again!
Yeah, apparently their is this dumb timeline thing Nintendo pulled out of their collective butts because fans wanted some lore behind the titles. That honestly is my take on it the more I look at it. SO yeah, you could slap something new in there for the sake of it as you can really plug anything in there you want due to it's generic and loose structure. I'll respectfully bow to that due to its official nature but not without mentioning I don't see that as "lore" so much as an excuse.
The argument you are seeing I will continuously call "character establishment". We aren't talking about a loose character some game or show that has been around for a couple years. We are talking about a character who not only lead the revitalization of the industry at the right hand of the Italian plumber but also has been at the forefront of the gaming industry ever since for the past 30 years. While it may not be the same character in the "lore" it is the same character is our minds. Plus, I'll throw out there that if 'reincarnation' doesn't even change your name why does it make sense to have it change your gender?
The argument you are failing to notice is "Why?" What is gained by doing this? Variety? Hardly. A new perspective? Yeah right, it will still be silent protagonist saves Hyrule and the inept ruling family. Nothing is gained here. Ah, I know, it will break ground in the female protagonist movement. Oh wait, no it won't because it's LoZ one of if not the most famous and top selling franchises of all time. SO the argument remains "Why?" What does it serve?
We as in the gaming community? Maybe before Ms. Male Character, but not now. 'People' (including me) would of course be cool with it, until Sarkeesian points out how they're wrong.
Also Link not masculine? He's the archetype disposable hero.
Also Link not masculine? He's the archetype disposable hero.
In and of itself? Not much is gained. Ultimately it boils down to how it affects other aspects of the story being told. Hence why I suggested making a Link/Linika/Lyn/Lina from the Gerudo tribe because that has the potential to change the games' formula in interesting ways both in gameplay and lore[footnote]Part of me even wants to suggest that she might have a companion who's a dead ringer for the classic hero of time as a bit of a bait and switch[/footnote]. Conversely, there could also be a tale where Link is Zelda's bodyguard, confidant and body double in the event that the princess is indisposed or at risk. Again, in and of itself a gender switch is insignificant, but it does open up a few interesting possibilities in the stories that can be told.Savagezion said:
My problem with it would stem from the fact that it's lazy. I've got no problem with a female lead in a Zelda game, but why just gender swap Link? That would be a chance to create a new character, or to maybe create a side story based on one of the more interesting characters in the series. A lot of people mentioned using Sheik, that'd be pretty cool. It's just kinda... boring to swap around Link. It'd be like gender swapping Mario instead of just making a game with Peach as a lead (and they DID make a game with Peach as the lead, cause it was a better idea).
Every Link is a different one, albeit a reincarnation, but I don't see a problem with a female Link in the slightest. It really wouldn't change much asides the character design and voice clips.
Not to mention, I think it'd be a bit of a refreshing change.
Not to mention, I think it'd be a bit of a refreshing change.
Considering that they're (usually) different people, then the answer is a very big yes. Not only would I be cool with it, its something I'd be happy to see.
I think it would work best if everyone got swapped around, though. It would be fun to save Prince Zelda and fight a female Ganon, not so much if its the exact same thing, but Link has boobs.
I don't think it would meaningfully change the story, but it would at least be a change of pace.
I think it would work best if everyone got swapped around, though. It would be fun to save Prince Zelda and fight a female Ganon, not so much if its the exact same thing, but Link has boobs.
I don't think it would meaningfully change the story, but it would at least be a change of pace.