Poll: Would we all be cool with a female Link?

[joshuaayt]

I said yes, because it'd be a step towards something cool, but I'd rather a game where Princess Zelda sorts her own shit out- either because no Link has stepped up, or just to fight evil alongside him. Either would work.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I might play a Zelda game with a female link if there's some reason for it but I don't see how it could be done without seeming forced. Though maybe the option to change gender would be cool. You can already name Link "Scrotumus" if you really want to so he's technically not any set person.

Honestly the prospect of playing as girl link doesn't bother me on its own. It depends whether or not that implies that it will also entail a foppish prince Zelda. While link could probably survive a gender swap largely unscathed Zelda wouldn't without major character overhauls so he wouldn't seem like a condescending pansy. If the character you're doing the whole quest for isn't likable a lot of the investment in it would kinda fall apart.

So instead of you know, actually trying to make the pie bigger, ya want to take existing franchises and do a 180 on it because....no really you really don't have an actual reason as to why it should happen.

I mean realize that these developers are the same as any author, or screenwriter or artist. They are creating the work they want to create for a very wide variety of reasons. They are going to make decisions that some people will love and some will detest while creating that art. But it is still their choice in the end. It isn't any place of any fan or outsider to tell any artist on what they should be doing especially if the end result is to reaffirm their own biases, beliefs, or morality.

Every time I walk into a library not every book is going to be a book I want to read. Same with movies, same with art, same with music. I'll always have the power of choice. Just like how any has the power to create the content they want.

The better solution is to actually create a new IP with a female lead with a narrative that some people will want to enjoy and with the some gameplay people will enjoy.

I mean we are in a explosion of video games when it comes to the market now. So many that no one can actually cover it all. If anything the scope of coverage of video games has gotten so small in relation to the massive amount of games being released and created that even some of the biggest hobbyists of video games are now uninformed even when it comes to the type of games they enjoy.

It's like we are doing a reverse of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. What once we were making our way outside the cave we have stumbled back into the cave and chained ourselves up again watching paper puppets dance in front of a fire.

Please excuse me. I need to read this aloud while blasting awe inspiring heroic fanfares.

 

[Slitzkin]

Except for aesthetic differences there would be nothing changed. It's not as if Link has a personality of anything. His role and be filled by either gender. Hell his role could be filled with a Goron.

 

[BrainWalker]

The massive lopsidedness of this poll pleases me.

Needless to say, I would be totally cool with a female Link.

 

[Milanezi]

Sure why not? If an unsuspecting gamer puts his personal name on the save game file then "Link" will be named that won't he? Which is to say, if the gamer is a girl by the name of Samantha, and she opens a file with her personal name (which is pretty normal), she'll have every character calling a male persona "Samantha", all I'm saying is, the name is "Link" because he is a link to the gamer itself (that's how I see it); it would only be natural to make this "linking" even more comfy by giving the player the choice of a female persona.

 

[garcian67]

Long time lurker here, this post finally convinced me to register because Zelda is something I know quite a bit about (being a '90s kid and all)


First off, there is nothing inherently wrong with a female protagonist in a Zelda game, but as others have said, simply having one for the sake of having one is not a good enough reason. If Nintendo decided to do a drastic departure from the usual with a new Zelda game and, in that world, it made sense that the protagonist should be a female because it ADDED to the overall experience in a MEANINGFUL way, then kudos, it would probably be a good game.

However, simply gender swapping link doesn't accomplish this, it would only cause a bit of controversy and, undeservingly,a shitstorm on par with the mass effect-pocalypse.


Given that the pieces of the triforce represent three virtues, would anyone really want a one-dimensional female link?

You're courageous girl, but not as smart as that Zelda you have to save

You're strong, but that bad man will always be stronger.


In all seriousness though, the cyclical nature of the Zelda story all but mandates a male link. The story is that of the struggle to balance three virtues, between the evil and good of humanity, it has some rather complicated details, but the core is familiar and fairly cross-cultural. It isn't "Zelda is weak and needs a man to save her" it's that wisdom alone cannot check powerful malice; Courage is needed.

Were the bearer of the triforce of courage to be a female, it would feel very shoehorned into the narrative, as now you have a Wise, observant, but somewhat timid princess, and a headstrong, but simple (almost oafish, as link is) second female who would compare almost completely unfavorably to Zelda (and she must, otherwise the question is raised, why doesn't fem-link have both triforces?)

In short, it is easier to imagine a simple, bumbling, courageous man (and he is simple and bumbling: link does nothing that someone doesn't tell him he has to do) than it is to imagine the same of a woman in a land where special women have very direct connections to divinity.


There are many more arguments to be made from the lore, but let's end this one here. While I think a shakeup would be good for the Zelda series, I don't think throwing away what is (mostly) self-consistent canon to bait controversy is what is needed.

 

[Winthrop]

There isn't anything particularly masculine about Link. He's not really a muscleman and the green tunic is more or less unisex.

This is my only problem with making Link a female. Every time a "link should be a girl" argument comes up someone says something along these lines. I know it is meant as support, but it is actually the only reason I oppose it. One of the things I like about Link is that he is NOT a masculine badass. He shows to me that being a man and being a hero isn't defined by how much you can lift. Our society tends to place a lot of value on men being tough and strong and muscular, but link isn't any of those things and he still manages to be a man and a hero. To me that is the point of Link, he isn't Powerful (Ganon is the one with the triforce of Power) but that doesn't matter. I think that making him a women now would be too close to saying that Link IS NOT really a man and that the features that he doesn't posses define masculinity. Every other reason to make Link a female is fine with me, but the idea that because he isn't traditionally manly, he should be a woman really bugs me. Seems like it would be making the reverse statement on gender equality than what people want it to make.

That said I'm fairly indifferent about making link a woman in one of them. I wouldn't be excited, but I wouldn't care at all either. Would come off as a marketing gimmick to me but as long as it still felt like a legend of zelda game I wouldn't mind at all. A game where you play as Zelda could be pretty cool, especially if you could be a badass Zelda like

Spoiler

Tetra from wind waker or Sheik in OoT

 

[Ipsen]

Let the quoting trade commence!

I am not saying someone can't like it. My point is don't think this will in any way have a bearing on the whole "female protagonist hoopla" going on right now. LoZ is always a high grossing title purely on namesake alone. Everyone wants to play the newest Zelda game. It's a thing. It's like how CoD: Ghosts now has female soldiers. But that isn't why it sold, it sold because its CoD and to think that adding female PCs to it proves something in the way of how female leads can sell games is really a very desperate attempt to grasp at straws. This really is the same thing. Even if this does well, it means nothing on that front. No gain.

Someone likes the idea? Cool, a kid on YouTube likes turtles. I am not arguing against their right to like it. But I will unapologetically state that I find it monumentally stupid.

I'll poke. Why must the gender swap have bearing on the "female protagonist hoopla"?

An aside, perhaps my assumptions on the topic were not clear. I'm assuming that the OP's question relies on the fact that the gameplay for LoZ remains the same; A young child destined to be the Hero of Light finds the Master Sword, busts some pots, finds a hookshot plus various tools, struggles through a water temple, and kills Ganon to save the princess and the kingdom. Just make the what was typically a young boy into a young girl (better yet, option it). No change in attire, attitude, ability. Adjust the legend of destiny, if that's the only roadblock. Just to get this out of the way.

Perhaps I'm also conveying my overall point badly as well, so I'll state it clearly: some gender swaps don't have to carry a huge message, or be strongly for or against the "female protagonist movement. I post that here, in a thread about Link being female, because LoZ fits snugly as an example of this point. There may be no gain for adding in a gender swap option, but there's no loss, either.

Take away the point in the legends about a boy of destiny (if that's even accurate), and what do you have?. I think it's somewhat fair to conject that the legend about the Hero of Light comprises the bulk of Link's character; you'll know he'll be courageous, and...a kid, and...o.o...Well, not much else. Link is arguably made to be as impressionable to the imagination as possible. Even taking multiple Links into account, none act with any sort of eccentricities compared to the others.

Mostly see above on this but will add that I probably wouldn't like it. It has more to do with character establishment than Link's genitals though. I like that there is a strong root in the story of the series. There isn't many out there like that. I don't see the series as "deep" or "thought provoking", I see it as simple and charming and having so many different tellings of that same tale is what makes it have that strong root where the big stuff in the game doesn't change only the minor. Majora's Mask was an oddball but I enjoyed it. I would also probably enjoy a game where Shiek/Zelda is the protagonist. Neither mess with that strong root. Making Zelda a girl "cuz it would be innovation!" would weaken the whole thing for me. I doubt my outlook will effect your experience with the title. Funny how that works, no?

Quite a few people make the case for a Shiek/Zelda protag, and I also think that would be cool.

I'm just under the impression that it wouldn't be...very 'Legend of Zelda' (to be fair, not much out there related to the series isn't). God, I don't want to draw this out, so 'throwaway' example: Link usually carries the triforce piece of Courage, while Zelda usually carries the triforce piece of Wisdom. Given the story environment stays in line, would that itself not at least change how the game makes its approach?

-cough- But of course, there are those who want something 'new' from LoZ. And that's actually fair, and appealing. But how long will it be before you're crying to wield the Master Sword?

No I don't. However, first things first. My argument is predicated on the fact that turning Zelda into a girl offers a risk where Nintendo stand nothing to gain and everything to lose. It is a dumb risk to take for no reason. There is absolutely nothing stopping them from making Zelda a bad ass. Matter of fact, I think Nintendo has more to gain and nothing to lose going that route. No risk of alienating any part of your audience and still being able to appeal to those interested. Link being a girl is not reason enough for me to buy a game. If that alone IS reason enough for someone to buy a LoZ game, I would say either they are sexist as it will play as any other LoZ game but now your avatar is a different gender - OR - they are trolling the Zelda fanbase.

You're on a near 1:1 ratio of assumptions to statements in this part, so I can't fairly retort here. I will say this, though; as much as you're entitled to your opinions, guesses, and ideas (and just to be forward with you, I'm finding your response rife with them) just acknowledge that the 'audience' is a fickle thing. Especially for a series holding tradition as strongly as LoZ, it would bifuricate over any change, really.

The eggshells comment got me because it can be taken two ways based on which side of the coin you are on. Who is walking on eggshells changes. It took me a while to get that because of it. I could see Nintendo doing it to out of having to walk on eggshells due to the hoopla I mentioned earlier. Now that I get where you are coming from, I don't think hijacking IPs in the name of women is the right approach. It's far too aggressive and potentially destructive, not to mention hard to predict and could end up hurting more than it helps. What needs to happen is more freedom with new IPs to allow women to be centric without being sex kittens. That has always been the problem; NOT successful male characters aren't women. Going that route offers more dangers of backlash than any potential rewards.

Ohhhh, I think I get it now.

You're putting deliberate weight on the fact that Link would be a girl. I'm finding that you're assuming that making Link a girl would actually be important, for both the game, and gaming 'culture' in general.

I choose not to go that far.

I only do this because of various non-gendered circumstances that are consistent in the LoZ universe. I see the scenario of female Link not so strong a favor for gender equality, but neither really distracting from it, too. The beauty of the series is that it's simple enough to hold both genders well.

 

[Ghostface2206]

I don't want Link to be a girl, but rather a different character who is not Link and just so happens to be a girl. Anyway the Zelda series has plenty of female characters, Zelda, Impa, Saria, Ruto, Midna, Aryll, Medli THE THREE GODDESSES + HYLIA (ARGUABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS OF ALL) and a lot more. Hell, I noticed in most Zelda games that there are just as many, if not more important female characters than male ones.

Simply having a girl version of a male character is unimaginative and makes her feel less unique.

 

[BrainWalker]

... I don't get these arguments. Why does switching Link's gender have to ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? I agree that it probably should, but why does it have to? Does Link's traditionally male gender ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? Not really. I think that's a part of OP's point: The traits we associate with Link are gender-neutral. Courage, obviously, and other things like resourcefulness, perserverence, the ability to run errands for all the lazy people in town. A woman in Link's role would be just as believable as a dude and I don't understand why the switch would have to be tied to some greater meaning. It's not like OP is suggesting that the Hero of Time's great destiny be swapped to his female descendants forever and ever, amen.

 

[garcian67]

... I don't get these arguments. Why does switching Link's gender have to ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? I agree that it probably should, but why does it have to?

It has to add to the story to provide some reason for changing it. The game started with a male protagonist, and that has been carried through all the games to date. There needs to be a reason to change, otherwise why change it?

As a general rule, if there isn't a reason to do something (both in game design and in most parts of life), then it doesn't matter whether it is done or not. Link is traditionally male, thus he will always be male. This is a true statement so long as the alternate case, Link is a female, has no strong reason for occurring. It is bad for brand recognition to change your lead character without justification, and it is unheard of for a series which has gone on as long as LoZ has to make such a change.


Also,

Does Link's traditionally male gender ADD to the story in a MEANINGFUL way? Not really

Link's gender does not add anything to the story superficially, there are many and varied lore reasons why he is male, which I can explain in some depth and at considerable length, but we will leave that for some masochist who asks for it.

What a male link has versus a female link is tradition. Tradition creates a negative pressure on change. That is how the world works, it is why things evolve slowly in our society and it has implications far beyond LoZ. Another change could easily be, why humanoid? Link could just as easily be a squid. Oddly enough, the canon might support this case more so than a female link, but it's rather ridiculous.

Change alone is not a good enough reason for change.

 

[Savagezion]

Something being bait for controversy isn't synonymous with being edgy.

Edgy, by definition is simply something that is avant-garde or innovative, specifically in terms of social culture.

The only argument I'm really hearing here is that we should keep Link as male because that's the way it's always been. Well, that's just not good enough for me. As a fan of the series myself I've grown increasingly unimpressed with the series. It refuses to make any notable changes to the premise short of a few token UI changes to try to justify the gimmicky-ass control schemes.

While we're trading unprovable anecdotal evidence. I have several friends myself who have sat around with me talking about how to make a female led LoZ title work. Something we do because as fans of the series the idea does have a certain appeal to us. So...stalemate there I guess.

As for the idea of gender swapping any fictional character being equally as valid. You have to know that Link is uncommon in the genre in that he's one of few legacy characters. The Link in Legend of Zelda is not the same boy appearing in Link to the Past, Windwaker, Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time, Minish Cap or Skyward Sword. It's a story of reincarnation and recursion and there's nothing in the lore the invalidates the idea of a female child hero taking up the mantle to defend the realm against a recurring threat.

Innovation/Avant-garde approaches usually spark controversy, no?

Yay, stalemate on anecdotes. Let's play again!

Yeah, apparently their is this dumb timeline thing Nintendo pulled out of their collective butts because fans wanted some lore behind the titles. That honestly is my take on it the more I look at it. SO yeah, you could slap something new in there for the sake of it as you can really plug anything in there you want due to it's generic and loose structure. I'll respectfully bow to that due to its official nature but not without mentioning I don't see that as "lore" so much as an excuse.

The argument you are seeing I will continuously call "character establishment". We aren't talking about a loose character some game or show that has been around for a couple years. We are talking about a character who not only lead the revitalization of the industry at the right hand of the Italian plumber but also has been at the forefront of the gaming industry ever since for the past 30 years. While it may not be the same character in the "lore" it is the same character is our minds. Plus, I'll throw out there that if 'reincarnation' doesn't even change your name why does it make sense to have it change your gender?

The argument you are failing to notice is "Why?" What is gained by doing this? Variety? Hardly. A new perspective? Yeah right, it will still be silent protagonist saves Hyrule and the inept ruling family. Nothing is gained here. Ah, I know, it will break ground in the female protagonist movement. Oh wait, no it won't because it's LoZ one of if not the most famous and top selling franchises of all time. SO the argument remains "Why?" What does it serve?

 

[ommadawnyawn]

We as in the gaming community? Maybe before Ms. Male Character, but not now. 'People' (including me) would of course be cool with it, until Sarkeesian points out how they're wrong.

Also Link not masculine? He's the archetype disposable hero.

 

[Jingle Fett]

Only if we'd also be cool with a black or latino Link too...

 

[Asita]

The argument you are failing to notice is "Why?" What is gained by doing this? Variety? Hardly. A new perspective? Yeah right, it will still be silent protagonist saves Hyrule and the inept ruling family. Nothing is gained here. Ah, I know, it will break ground in the female protagonist movement. Oh wait, no it won't because it's LoZ one of if not the most famous and top selling franchises of all time. SO the argument remains "Why?" What does it serve?

In and of itself? Not much is gained. Ultimately it boils down to how it affects other aspects of the story being told. Hence why I suggested making a Link/Linika/Lyn/Lina from the Gerudo tribe because that has the potential to change the games' formula in interesting ways both in gameplay and lore[footnote]Part of me even wants to suggest that she might have a companion who's a dead ringer for the classic hero of time as a bit of a bait and switch[/footnote]. Conversely, there could also be a tale where Link is Zelda's bodyguard, confidant and body double in the event that the princess is indisposed or at risk. Again, in and of itself a gender switch is insignificant, but it does open up a few interesting possibilities in the stories that can be told.

 

[Nobuoa Schniell]

My problem with it would stem from the fact that it's lazy. I've got no problem with a female lead in a Zelda game, but why just gender swap Link? That would be a chance to create a new character, or to maybe create a side story based on one of the more interesting characters in the series. A lot of people mentioned using Sheik, that'd be pretty cool. It's just kinda... boring to swap around Link. It'd be like gender swapping Mario instead of just making a game with Peach as a lead (and they DID make a game with Peach as the lead, cause it was a better idea).

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Every Link is a different one, albeit a reincarnation, but I don't see a problem with a female Link in the slightest. It really wouldn't change much asides the character design and voice clips.

Not to mention, I think it'd be a bit of a refreshing change.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Considering that they're (usually) different people, then the answer is a very big yes. Not only would I be cool with it, its something I'd be happy to see.
I think it would work best if everyone got swapped around, though. It would be fun to save Prince Zelda and fight a female Ganon, not so much if its the exact same thing, but Link has boobs.
I don't think it would meaningfully change the story, but it would at least be a change of pace.

 

[Savagezion]

I'll poke. Why must the gender swap have bearing on the "female protagonist hoopla"?

Because that's what started this whole nonsense. For 30 years Link was a guy and no one questioned its relevance because "Why would they?" that is the story. Then came the hoopla about women in gaming and suddenly everyone aims at changing the the gender of one a characters that fights for the #1 spot of "most famous characters in gaming" lists against Mario. I am sorry, but I don't see that as a coincidence. This is being pushed so hard to shove female protagonists into the spotlight.

Now I am more than fine with female protagonists having a spot in the gaming industry but hijacking a character to do it is just bad taste. I'll even concede that being able to choose a boy or a girl in the next Zelda game isn't terrible. I personally don't see why it is so appealing that the girl be Link specifically and not some other new character when this offers a chance to expand the cast a bit. But whatever. If someone wants to waste the opportunity to bring in new characters to give a Link a mangina, far be it from me to stop them. However, far be it from them to stop me and others from having the Link we have always known and loved for 30 years just because they got bored and want to pick at it.

I definitely think the reason this keeps getting brought up and will again many times over is due to the female protagonist stuff. All the games with female protagonists keep failing because feminists are making devs walk on eggshells with their portrayal of women. Bioshock Infinite was attacked because a Victorian style dress showed cleavage. Tomb Raider was bashed because of a lot of things. The Last of Us was bashed due to something about Tess being sexualized to humanize Joel or something in the early game. I dunno I thought it sounded pathetic. Remember Me I havent seen anything go up against it yet but then again that game really slipped to the sidelines upon release like Wet and Mirror's Edge did. It wouldn't surprise me if female Link got attacked to appear sexist the minute it released. Ironically, it is pro female groups actively working against female protagonists every bit as much as publishers IMO. However, that is a whole other discussion for real.

Right now every female lead that gets a spotlight in the gaming culture has weight and gender bending Link would draw focus. Not because it is a big deal but because people would make it a big deal. If Link gender bends, I personally am done as artistic integrity has officially taken a backseat in the franchise. That isn't to say I think that LoZ is some fantastic writing, but clearly Nintendo has a story they are trying to stay true to despite using multiple incarnations to tell it over and over again. I would much rather see them expand it further to add a little depth without altering what they have worked so long to keep iconic. If they start pissing away the anchors of the very specific story they tell it will taint its iconic charm and get lost in the sea of everything else out there and a decade or two from now just become some generic tale that was popular once upon a time. It won't even have any iconic characters anymore because they too will have become the definition of generic. Maybe one day Link is reincarnated into a bird or whatever - not like it matters cause "reincarnation"! Talk about generic.

 

[Dovah Kiin]

It would be incredibly dumb, but it really wouldn't change anything realistically.

Changing link to a girl to appease squealing feminazis/ for no reason would not be in very good taste.
Why don't we have a co-op game where you save the kingdom as Link AND zelda? A sort of trine type deal.

Id buy a wii-u for THAT.