Poll: Would you date a transgendered person?

[artanis_neravar]

If I change my last name to Sheen, have facial reconstruction surgery to make myself look like Charlie Sheen, and believe he is my father does that make me his son?

If he adopts you, then yes x3

XD That made me laugh, thank you

 

[Versuvius]

*snip*

Who are you to tell me what I am?
What kind of self righteous person are you?
I know deep within myself who I truly am, you dont even fucking know me, yet you tell me what you think I am, you disgust me.
You're the same type of entitled shit that told Blacks they werent people and that they never could be.

Vampires dont exist, and the word Genius means nothing, I'm talking about what I truly am on the inside, and you outright insult me by telling me I'm pretending?!

Fuck you, I'd rather keep this hatchet nice and raised, then bother wasting any more breath on you, you retch.

Yes, I think you're pretending to be something you're not. I find it amusing that you accuse me of judging you without knowing you, yet you judge me without knowing me either.
So I'm a racist bigot? Seems like you don't care about being right or wrong, you just want to fight and sling mud at people. So I could call you a slew of unpleasantries, but I'll settle for saying that you are not a good person and rather immature.
You aren't accepting the fact that you are male. What part of you was born wrong? There is no evidence for dualism in gender, no evidence for an "x" brain in a "y" body. Insult me as much as you want, but your argument is full of hot air.
You are a person, never said you weren't. You have full rights to do what you want with your body. You have full rights to not be discriminated against due to your modifications. I'd never take any of these away from you. I'd be your friend, if you were a good person (which as I've covered, you are not). But I wouldn't date you, and that's my right.
It is also my right to believe that you are deluded. Are you so insecure that you care about what opinion some random guy on the internet has about transgender people? It isn't an insult to you personally, it's just my belief about transgenders. I don't believe in a separation of gender and sex. Just like I don't believe in the soul. I don't care if you find either of those beliefs offensive. Of the two of us, you can't stand people having a different view from yours.
I've already reported you, you were aggressive from the moment you started posting in this thread, and in case you didn't know ad hominem attacks are prohibited on this site.

Gender duality doesn't exist but theres a sliding scale of masculine and femenine which can be considered a ratio. It's like saying gay people are just lying to themselves about what they are and pretending. Indeed it appears you can't stand anyone having a different view from yours, and you are being immature, inconsiderate and obnoxious. What you accused Montezuma's Lawyer of doing is exactly what you just did, making everything you have said as invalid as anything else. I may disagree or have my own views, but i am neither gay or a transgender, and i expect neither are you, nor have you done any serious scientific study into the area, in neurology or i expect biology deeper than photosynthesis. Biology is an interesting thing as there is no defined rule for anything that is absolyte and exceptions always exist, right down to the ratio of various hormones that control gender and how the mind is wired for gender. If a man undergoes the operation and lives a much happier, fuller life how they want...how can you call them out on it and call them false pretenders and not be offensive? You are the kind of person that propagates your bullshit Black and White argument with people who agree with your argument, it's called LikeThink and it doesn't make it any less Bullshit. Enjoy the utter contempt anybody who isn't a bigot will look at you with.

 

[00slash00]

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

Yup. They should have asked first >.>

i disagree. as a pre-op trans lesbian, i would want to be upfront with my partner. being transgender is still something that a lot of people have a problem with or dont understand. i would expect that, if my partner cared about me, she would be accepting of who i am. however, out of respect for her, it is not something i would want to keep from her. and if she is the type of person that wouldnt accept a transgender person, id rather know that sooner than later

 

[peruvianskys]

You aren't accepting the fact that you are male. What part of you was born wrong? There is no evidence for dualism in gender, no evidence for an "x" brain in a "y" body. Insult me as much as you want, but your argument is full of hot air.

There's very little evidence for a neurophysical base for gender at all. A transwoman is not really saying "I am a woman in a man's body," although that may be an easy way to explain it, but instead saying, "I am a human being who identifies with the social construct of a gender not normally associated with my biological sex." Sex is a quantifiable and objective concept; gender is social.

Saying "I don't believe in a male brain being born in a female body" is like saying "I don't believe in a Muslim brain being born in a white body." You're making the mistake of pairing up a social concept and a physical descriptor.

It is also my right to believe that you are deluded. Are you so insecure that you care about what opinion some random guy on the internet has about transgender people?

Well it's not hard to see why a transperson would be a little insecure, when there are people belittling and diminishing them at every turn.

It isn't an insult to you personally, it's just my belief about transgenders. I don't believe in a separation of gender and sex. Just like I don't believe in the soul.

You have a right to believe that but it's not scientifically correct. I have the right to believe that black people are evolutionarily lesser beings than white people but it's not true and it's a toxic belief that both white and black people have an interest in correcting. In the same way, both trans and a lot of cis people are probably going to be less than happy when you try and claim that it's morally neutral to spreading an unreasonable and insensitive opinion. Don't be surprised if you're attacked.

 

[MartianWarMachine]

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

Yup. They should have asked first >.>

i disagree. as a pre-op trans lesbian, i would want to be upfront with my partner. being transgender is still something that a lot of people have a problem with or dont understand. i would expect that, if my partner cared about me, she would be accepting of who i am. however, out of respect for her, it is not something i would want to keep from her. and if she is the type of person that wouldnt accept a transgender person, id rather know that sooner than later

Oh, okay. Sorry =(

 

[00slash00]

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

Yup. They should have asked first >.>

i disagree. as a pre-op trans lesbian, i would want to be upfront with my partner. being transgender is still something that a lot of people have a problem with or dont understand. i would expect that, if my partner cared about me, she would be accepting of who i am. however, out of respect for her, it is not something i would want to keep from her. and if she is the type of person that wouldnt accept a transgender person, id rather know that sooner than later

Oh, okay. Sorry =(

nothing to be sorry about, just a difference of opinions. i understand your stance, that its not something anyone should have a problem with so there should be no reason to bring it up (at least thats what i assume youre saying) and i agree with that completely. i was just saying that, because a lot of people are less reasonable and accepting than you are, i feel that i should be more upfront about who i am, rather than risking them finding out later and possibly freaking out

 

[MartianWarMachine]

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

Yup. They should have asked first >.>

i disagree. as a pre-op trans lesbian, i would want to be upfront with my partner. being transgender is still something that a lot of people have a problem with or dont understand. i would expect that, if my partner cared about me, she would be accepting of who i am. however, out of respect for her, it is not something i would want to keep from her. and if she is the type of person that wouldnt accept a transgender person, id rather know that sooner than later

Oh, okay. Sorry =(

nothing to be sorry about, just a difference of opinions. i understand your stance, that its not something anyone should have a problem with so there should be no reason to bring it up (at least thats what i assume youre saying) and i agree with that completely. i was just saying that, because a lot of people are less reasonable and accepting than you are, i feel that i should be more upfront about who i am, rather than risking them finding out later and possibly freaking out

So... does that mean I'm not wrong?

Yep, that's what I'm trying to say =3

Then I shall have to MAKE them more reasonable and accepting! With fire! And blackjack, and hookers! ...No, wait...

Oh, I see =3

*Hopes this is not an unintelligeble mess =S*

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

They just need to figure out what is causing people to be attracted to the wrong gender and fix it already so we can stop having all these stupid discussions and actually do something worthwhile with our time and money.[/quote]

You claim that homosexuality ( I assume this is what you mean by "wrong gender.") is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Any argument you make here will be tainted with this, Sorry but the world simply does not need bigots like you.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

It always strikes me as a bit odd when people claim that if they date someone without knowing they are trans, they've somehow been tricked, like it's the transpersons moral duty to reveal something very private and personal about themselves just to ensure they don't offend the person they're dating.

It's no different than I think a married guy should tell me he is married before he starts dating me so I can make an informed choice. The same with someone with an STD (especially the fun ones that never go away like herpes and AIDS)

Having sex with a married man, and a man with AIDS are two VERY different things.

You can move on after sex with a Transgendered person, you Cannot move on from AIDS.

These are two Horribly different circumstances, and I'm sick of this nonsensical argument.

 

[VoEC]

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

Yup. They should have asked first >.>

i disagree. as a pre-op trans lesbian, i would want to be upfront with my partner. being transgender is still something that a lot of people have a problem with or dont understand. i would expect that, if my partner cared about me, she would be accepting of who i am. however, out of respect for her, it is not something i would want to keep from her. and if she is the type of person that wouldnt accept a transgender person, id rather know that sooner than later

Oh, okay. Sorry =(

nothing to be sorry about, just a difference of opinions. i understand your stance, that its not something anyone should have a problem with so there should be no reason to bring it up (at least thats what i assume youre saying) and i agree with that completely. i was just saying that, because a lot of people are less reasonable and accepting than you are, i feel that i should be more upfront about who i am, rather than risking them finding out later and possibly freaking out

On top of that, if the person for some reason has something against trans people / doesn't want to date one or goes "Ewww!" as soon as you mention it, you really don't want to be in a relationship with that person, do you?

 

[artanis_neravar]

It always strikes me as a bit odd when people claim that if they date someone without knowing they are trans, they've somehow been tricked, like it's the transpersons moral duty to reveal something very private and personal about themselves just to ensure they don't offend the person they're dating.

It's no different than I think a married guy should tell me he is married before he starts dating me so I can make an informed choice. The same with someone with an STD (especially the fun ones that never go away like herpes and AIDS)

Having sex with a married man, and a man with AIDS are two VERY different things.

You can move on after sex with a Transgendered person, you Cannot move on from AIDS.

These are two Horribly different circumstances, and I'm sick of this nonsensical argument.

You ignored the primary argument and focused on the after thought. Why didn't you respond to their main point?

 

[johnboy424]

I realize that I'm a little late to this discussion, but I'd still like to add my opinion.

I'll start out by saying that I've never (knowingly) met a transsexual pre- or post-op, so my opinion may change if I ever do meet one.

Anyway, I'm a heterosexual male, and I wouldn't date a transsexual. I've seen pictures of attractive transsexual women, but knowing that they were once a man is an instant turn-off for me. I don't think you can change what you're attracted to, and I wouldn't date someone who I was completely unattracted to.

However, that isn't saying that I disapprove of transsexuals in any way. If he or she is unhappy as his or her natural gender, then I don't see why he or she shouldn't be able to do something about it. I would be fine with spending time with or forming a friendship with a transsexual. If I meet one who's fun to be around and isn't an ass all the time, then sure I'd be friends with him or her. Maybe I would even come form a lifelong friendship with that person, and to love that person in the same way that I love my other close friends. Loving someone doesn't necessarily imply a desire to date him or her.

Having said that, there is a possibility that I would reconsider my position on this if I was already in a committed intimate relationship with someone who revealed that she was a transsexual. It's a tricky situation, and I'm really not sure how I'd react. On the one hand, I would definitely feel quite misled. In addition, I want to have my own kids, and that would be troubling to work out in this scenario. On the other hand, I think if the we both felt strongly enough about each other, then I would try to work things out. It wouldn't be easy, and I might not be able to accept it, but I'd try at least.

 

[orangeban]

It always strikes me as a bit odd when people claim that if they date someone without knowing they are trans, they've somehow been tricked, like it's the transpersons moral duty to reveal something very private and personal about themselves just to ensure they don't offend the person they're dating.

It's no different than I think a married guy should tell me he is married before he starts dating me so I can make an informed choice. The same with someone with an STD (especially the fun ones that never go away like herpes and AIDS)

It's totally different. Partners should tell you if their married because you should know that you might be breaking up a family, or even placing yourself in harms way. Partners should tell you about STDs because that is a genuine health risk for you.

However, there is no reason for a partner to tell you they are trans. If you are told by your partner, you should feel honoured because they trust you enough to confide in you. There is no health risk involved in sleeping with a trans person, they are not obliged to tell you. The only real argument is that a post-op trans person cannot have children, but even then I think it is better for the partner who wants children to make that clear, rather than the trans person having to say they are trans.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

 

[gazumped]

*feels incredibly late to the party*

It's interesting that people are suggesting that genitalia that might work differently to cis-gendered people would be an issue... granted I don't have a huge range of experience but of the four male organs I've been intimate with, one suffered from erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation, one had phismosis, one had a condition where it couldn't flex to any great degree, limiting us to about three positions, and one was so big it hurt for me to pee for the next three days. You find ways around it (okay, I broke up with the last guy soon after that happened but I was with the others for a long while!)

As for me, I'd date FtMs or MtFs, I don't know if maybe it's easier for me because I'm bi, and possibly also because I was brought up with the firm teachings that boys and girls are equal and gender stereotypes are wrong, but I've never seen it as weird or icky for someone to want to be treated in a way that society says they shouldn't be because of their genitals/chromosomes.
As my trans friend said (and I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her) "I've always been a woman, it's not my fault I have to fight for people to accept that."

Interestingly, there's a Native American tribe who dealt with this quite neatly by labelling the masculine and the feminine as 'spirits' that can inhabit any body, meaning that people could to live with masculine or feminine traits without having to undergo surgery to feel like they were allowed to do so. http://uk.jezebel.com/5812179/the-navajo-cultures-four-different-genders
But anyway, this is a little off topic...

I'd also be cool if they didn't want to come out and tell me upfront. It's not like it affects me in any way, and I kind of like it when my partners have something new to tell me about their pasts several months down the line, with some fresh new stories to tell me about their life experiences.

 

[ploppytheman]

They just need to figure out what is causing people to be attracted to the wrong gender and fix it already so we can stop having all these stupid discussions and actually do something worthwhile with our time and money.

You claim that homosexuality ( I assume this is what you mean by "wrong gender.") is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Any argument you make here will be tainted with this, Sorry but the world simply does not need bigots like you.[/quote]

Bigot. Original. Is that how you end arguments?

It is obviously a problem. Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant. People are too stuck in their PC mindset to step outside and look at what they are. And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed. People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

I mean you say its not a choice, your born that way, so its obviously something that can be fixed when we find the right variables. But this generation is too engrained in PC and afraid to think so maybe the next generation will realize, hey, this is not how my body is supposed to work and I would like it to be fixed, what can we do about this? People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it? I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e. And in 50yrs once people stop being PC retards they will find a cure for it and this will be archived in libraries where few people even know about. I'd almost be willing to vote for gay rights to accelerate the process.

 

[torzath]

You aren't accepting the fact that you are male. What part of you was born wrong? There is no evidence for dualism in gender, no evidence for an "x" brain in a "y" body. Insult me as much as you want, but your argument is full of hot air.

There's very little evidence for a neurophysical base for gender at all. A transwoman is not really saying "I am a woman in a man's body," although that may be an easy way to explain it, but instead saying, "I am a human being who identifies with the social construct of a gender not normally associated with my biological sex." Sex is a quantifiable and objective concept; gender is social.

Saying "I don't believe in a male brain being born in a female body" is like saying "I don't believe in a Muslim brain being born in a white body." You're making the mistake of pairing up a social concept and a physical descriptor.

It is also my right to believe that you are deluded. Are you so insecure that you care about what opinion some random guy on the internet has about transgender people?

Well it's not hard to see why a transperson would be a little insecure, when there are people belittling and diminishing them at every turn.

It isn't an insult to you personally, it's just my belief about transgenders. I don't believe in a separation of gender and sex. Just like I don't believe in the soul.

You have a right to believe that but it's not scientifically correct. I have the right to believe that black people are evolutionarily lesser beings than white people but it's not true and it's a toxic belief that both white and black people have an interest in correcting. In the same way, both trans and a lot of cis people are probably going to be less than happy when you try and claim that it's morally neutral to spreading an unreasonable and insensitive opinion. Don't be surprised if you're attacked.

This. So much this. I know "this" posts aren't really productive at all, but this is completely how I feel here.

 

[VoEC]

This reminds me of something i saw on another site - doctors do a good job.

10 Handsome men (that were born female) http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx
10 Gorgeous woman (that were born male) http://www.oddee.com/item_98035.aspx

Every one of those "women" are clearly men based on their faces, except maybe #5 which could just look like a masculine woman.

The men have more impressive transformations, only a couple of them are given away by their faces. The facial hair many of them have probably helps to trigger the brain to "male".

I won't post links due to escapist policy around posting pics of genitals, but the surgeons are far less successful in getting the genitals to look natural, and of course they don't function correctly for sexual purposes.

I know it is just my opinion but I think that most of them look really gorgeous (men and women). I think if it wasn't explicitly said even you couldn't tell the difference.
Of course some of them have pretty masculine/feminine faces but you also have to remember that they probably started transitioning pretty late (at least it seems like it).
If a trans person starts his or her threatment at young age (before 20) it gets almost impossible to tell only from their outer appearance (depends on body type) and if they started before puberty it is impossible.

Regarding the surgery:
It depends om where you do it and who does it.
I think the healthcare system in some countries isn't that great (or none existend at all) so they have to do it cheap in a coutry like thailand. If you can afford it the result will be very different.
Thank god our country is only governed by only 50% total morons and we have a fair health care system so I don't have to worry about that.
I think it differs a bit with FTM and the result isn't that good as with MTF but I can not really say much about this.

 

[Para199x]

I don't think I could ever look at them and REALLY see any post op as "their new gender". They will always be victims of a mental illness and medical misconduct to me. As such I will treat them with respect and I will be the first to support them in obtaining equal rights and good treatment, but they will never really be their new gender in my mind.

So you don't support them then? This is the very first decision everybody really needs to make when dealing with another human being - the moment you decide they will NEVER be their new gender in your mind, you have undermined their rights. That's like saying you have decided that they will NEVER be a human being in your mind. You don't have to be dating someone to make this decision - it is common courtesy.

You won't know if someone is pre-op or post-op until they tell you or you are close enough to get intimate with them, but you will be able to determine what gender they are and how they should be treated long before that. If your sense of what gender a person is is based on the status of their genitalia, then you are sadly mistaken, because unless you make the habit of wandering naked, this isn't something people normally see.

There are other gender cues, and these gender cues reinforce gender identity. If in doubt, go for the gender cues in the way people are dressed, and other conscious, deliberate choices they are making to reinforce those gender cues. These are simple things that, while they often come across as stereotypical, and trying too hard, are usually done for a reason - just like any other identity cue.

If ANYBODY feels they have the right to decide that someone else will NEVER be something, then perhaps they should be the ones diagnosed with the mental illness. Because they are obviously lacking in the courtesy and empathy required to be a human being, and maybe they should understand and experience what it is like to be treated as if they will NEVER be something that they care about, as much as they desire it. To never be treated as a reasonable person that has the right to share opinions in public on the state of others should suffice in most cases.

I don't think that saying a genetic male will never be a female is in anyway undermining their rights, they have a right to think they are mentally a female and act accordingly and get cosmetic surgery etc. so they look like that but they will still not be female. That doesn't mean they aren't human and it doesn't mean i think they are doing something wrong or even repulsive just that genes are genes and they are male.

Specifically in your last paragraph, saying that you can't say that somebody will never be something unless you are crazy. That makes me think you are deluded, i can say with absolute certainty that you will never ever be a xenomorph

Again I have no issue with transgender people, do what makes you happy, but that doesn't mean that after cosmetic surgery they actually become what they are trying to look like. It's essentially a very extreme fancy dress. If it makes a person happier go ahead, I will still treat you like a human being and you have all the same rights as anyone else, but you aren't what you are dressed up as.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant.

Prove it.

And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed.

Prove it.

People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

Prove it.

People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Nonsensical argument, broad generalization.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it?

How many people would rather just make a pill to prevent other from murdering them for being gay?

I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e.

You dont even know what you're arguing, do you?



Yes, you're a damned bigot.