Poll: Your opinion on School Uniforms.

[SEXTON HALE]

Not a fan of my schools uniform but ive gotten use to it,It really has no significance and there has been talk of getting rid of it but I don't think thats going to go anywhere before I leave.

 

[ShockValue]

[sup]Still not fun in winter though...[/sup]

School uniforms are fun anytime of the year... though there's a good chance that we're not thinking of the same kind of fun...

We aren't but you obviously knew that already.

 

[Joccaren]

Will you stop with the 'if you can't express it through clothing you don't have it' it's BS and arrogant. I can put Shakespeare on a shirt or Carlin or any other great writer, not with a damn uniform.

That's not what I'm saying. That's what you seem to be saying. I am saying that if you can't express who you are without wearing a certain set of clothing, its not who you are. You can put all the Shakespeare you like on your shirt, doesn't mean anything. Doesn't make you Shakespeare, doesn't make you a great writer, doesn't make you philosphical, doesn't mean you like English, doesn't mean you like Shakespeare - it means nothing without the context of WHY you are wearing it, which is given by everything else you display to the world. No matter what you put on your shirt it doesn't change who you are, it highlights it for those who can tell, but only if you're expressing who you are through some other means.
As an example, I have a friend who put a Shakespeare quote on his shirt one time. One of the students heavily into English and Literature at the time came across and asked him if he liked Shakespeare, as he had Shakespeare on his shirt. His response was that he hated Shakespeare, and he wore that quote ironically as it was one of the most pretentious things he'd ever heard. Just having Shakespeare on your shirt means a grand total of nothing. This is why something that you can't express without clothing doesn't exist - it expresses nothing without the proper context, which can only be expressed outside of the clothing.

Also please provide evidence uniforms cut down on bullying and cliques. Those things rarely revolve around clothes.

Anecdotal evidence of myself, friends and family. I doubt you'd believe that though.
If you'd provide evidence for your claim that it doesn't cut down bullying, that would also be prudent, as presently we are left with "It may or may not cut down on bullying", as I'm guessing we've both got Anecdotal evidence for each.

This is getting tiring, I keep pointing out the fact that they cut down on ways to express yourself and your response is always some variation of 'well they don't need it to express themselves' even after we both agreed it's a weak excuse.

We agreed on the condition that "Its cutting out ways to express yourself" is also a weak argument.

It's a point against uniforms so just live with it.

And this is where the tiring part largely arises. From my first quote I haven't been arguing that its not a point against uniforms, or that a school uniform is comparable to your own clothes in what you can accentuate with it. I've been arguing that your original statement of:

Went to a school with a uniform, would recommend it.

Yeah yeah "But it stifles people's individuality!" blah blah bullshit. Beyond the simple point that you're at school, not at the mall you goddamn hippy, anyone who requires specific clothing to express their "Personality" doesn't have one.

You honestly believe this? This is probably the stupidest thing I've heard on the subject.

Yeah nobody can express themselves through clothing, it's impossible and your personality never makes you more likely to dress a certain way.

Is incorrect in regards to what was stated. If you NEED that clothing to express your personality, you have no personality. Its not a matter that you can't express yourself through clothing, its a matter that what you can express is meaningless and worth nothing if you can't express it without the clothing.
If you want to argue that that is an irrelevant point, go ahead, it is, however, IMO, true.

 

[Cry Wolf]

But those really aren't problems caused by uniforms per say, but rather problem caused by asinine rules regarding uniform. If your school had been less strict and the uniforms were affordable do you think your opinion would be the same?

Fuck no. Education, particularly public primary and secondary education, should come with as few restrictions as possible. It is unlikely that a uniform will ever be cheaper than regular clothes, as practical or as comfortable. I don't particularly care about expression, rather the hindrance it is on study. Furthermore, uniforms are just further distractions that teachers must police (or deal with backlash from higher-ups for not policing, as the case is occasionally) and another point of discrimination amongst peers - which I'll touch on again below.

But it isn't though. Yes many people, such as yourself, have posted that they never experienced or witnessed clothes related bullying, but just as many people have posted that they have experienced or witnessed it which means it does happen. Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell I never experienced it (aside from maybe a bit of "boyish" banter on non uniform days) but I know it happens because kids are ass-holes. All of them, even the nice ones. Most of them don't realize it, they're not emotionally mature enough, and if they did they'd probably feel bad, but they're still ass-holes. Uniforms just get rid of one less thing for them to be ass-hoes about.

Oh, I have seen clothes related bullying - it's just not restricted to non-uniform clothes. What is bullshit is the idea that simply forcing everybody to wear one set of clothes is going to stop this. As I said in my previous post, that you seem to have skipped over, is I've seen people harassed for their uniform. Clothes don't hang right? Can't afford to replace those pants with worn knees? You're that kid with second hand uniform? Oh, you had to stitch up the uniform that is coming apart? Yeah, no. In your own words, kids are assholes. Changing your clothes doesn't remove something to be bullied about, it just gives them something else to bully you for. Kids are assholes, if they want to bully they will bully regardless of what you're wearing.

But seriously though, I really do feel for you having to put up with those kind of rules and expenses. We used to get the whole "wear the uniform like this" shtick all the time, although everyone just seemed to ignore it. I heard they got stricter for a while after I left but the heads seemed to have given up judging by what my sister wears.Regarding the expenses, does Australia not have laws stating mandatory school uniforms must be made affordable within public schools? We got those here (well in Scotland at least, not sure about the rest of the UK).

Oh, I ignored it like most people. I was frequently pulled out of class or stopped by teachers who felt like venting at some kid. I was told on several occasions that I'd be suspended if I didn't replace my certain parts of my uniform that were very worn (but hey, it only happened once!). I was told to leave the high school several times because I "refused to conform" because my shoes weren't in the style they wanted (which wasn't in the uniform policy, mine were still black leather shoes). Go figure. As for whether or not there are laws dictating the price of clothes, I assume there are for public schools but the biggest problem by far was how quickly these clothes would wear out - and the "non-mandatory" clothes like jumpers (which you still needed if you felt like surviving the winter) cost a fortune.

 

[Saulkar]

Given that I am more or less limited to cotton, velvet, leather, and silk in terms of what does not cause my skin to break out in welts, eczema, and rashes I tend to think that only I should dictate what I can and cannot wear. My work vest says 100% cotton but I have to always wear an authenticated cotton shirt under my authenticated cotton shirt to avoid breaking out from contact with my vest with claims to be 100% cotton.

 

[afroebob]

Nope. Don't go to a school with a uniform and would never want to. I wont send my hypothetical kids to a school with one either.

 

[Joccaren]

We agreed on the condition that "Its cutting out ways to express yourself" is also a weak argument.

I never agreed to this.

That was the condition on me agreeing with "Well they don't need it to express themselves" being a weak argument:

As much as "They don't need it to express themselves" is a weak excuse to bring out uniforms, "They need it to express whatever they want" is also a weak excuse to push back uniforms.

I put them on the same level of weakness. If you say that that is me agreeing that "They don't need it to express themselves" is a weak argument, that means you have agreed that "Its cutting out ways to express yourself" is too - as I agreed to put them on equal footing.

 

[Saladfork]

Canadian here, and I've never once seen a school with a uniform before. There were some murmurings of it when I was at high school, but almost every single person who weighed in on the topic was against it, so they dropped the idea.

Personally, I think I was happier without it. I tend to just put on whatever the first thing I find is, and having to digging through all my shit to find a uniform that was still clean would've been a right pain first thing in the morning.

There was still a dress code, of course, but it was very loose.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

I bloody loved mine. Blazers are brilliant, pockets everywhere!
Also, in terms of the seasons, you just take off the blazer when its hot and wear a coat when its cold. its not rocket science.

Personally, I'm ambivalent towards them. I like them, but it wouldn't bother me to not have had them or to send my theoretical future children to a school without one. I really can't understand why some people are so against them.

 

[Stu35]

I went to a school that required uniforms.

To this day still can't see the point in the slightest - I then went on to a college that required no uniform. The world did not come to an end, nobody got bullied for dressing differently, and people seemed to do about as well on exams as anybody who attended a school with uniforms...


So. Yeah, it's a no from me... But realistically I don't care any more, doesn't affect me.



Edit - a quick browse of this thread indicates that a lot of people are upset about the stolen 'individuality' of uniforms. This makes me laugh, and actually kinda change my mind if only because school uniforms apparently pisses that kind of person off.

As if expressing ones individuality through clothing is really that fucking important in a learning environment.... The whole "It represents anti-individualism and strict adherence to authority." is the sort of nonsense I'd expect an NRA member to come out with when explaining why if you took guns away from Americans, the king of England would come and start pushing them around again. Or from people against the idea of universal healthcare in America because it's a form of communism, and commies are bad... If anything it's an interesting demonstration that the left-wing has, if anything, the same paranoia and fears over 'government control' that their right-wing nemesis' have.

Or, y'know, something...

 

[JaceArveduin]

As a person that's went to a few differently high schools, none of which had uniforms, I'll just say that it's unlikely that putting a uniform on will stop obnoxious idiots who spend daddy's money on expensive shit from noticing you aren't as well off as them. If you talk with people, you will learn how well off they are, and the people that try to cover it up will fail before too long.

Of course, I've always been more of an outcast, and completely fine with it. In the bigger schools, people realized I was not a nice guy, without me having to even get into fights, so they left me alone. Honestly, I liked my little small town school the best. Everybody knew everybody, and everyone was practically in the same money bracket. The only thing that was annoying was that rednecks have a tendency to be idiots at times, and even then there's a few of them I have a healthy respect for.

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

Let me Google Scholar this for you: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=school+uniforms&hl=en&as_sdt=0,31

Just a precursory glance reveals numerous peer-reviewed articles lauding mandatory school uniforms.

Now; the subjective, anecdotal evidence. I had them, I liked them, and you're virtually always going to have a "uniform" in life. Whether you like it or not. If you work on Wall Street, it'll be a suit and tie. Even if you work as a video game programmer, your uniform could be sweatpants and flip-flops 'cause that's the office culture and consequently, formalwear would be seen negatively by your colleagues.

 

[Loonyyy]

I don't like a mandatory dress code, but it serves a practical purpose: You know what the students are equipped for (Including things like workshop work), teachers can tell students from non-students easily, making intruders easier to identify, and making it harder for students to wander outside of supervision.

They make sense, but you don't have to like it. Fortunately, where I come from they're pretty much always:

Male: 1 colour button up shirt
1 or 2 colours of polo shirt
rugby jumper
polar fleece jumper
pants or shorts of specific colour

Female: 1 colour blouse
1 or 2 colours of polo shirt
rugby jumper
polar fleece jumper
pants, shorts, skirt etc
dress.

So at least the stuff was practical. I feel sorry for people who get shafted into wearing daft uniforms which are uncomfortable, or useless.

 

[Sonicron]

School uniforms are a load of bollocks. Most people are forced into conformity eventually anyway when they enter into employment, so why not let them express themselves through clothing choice in childhood and adolescence? I'm rather glad we don't have this kind of nonsense here in Germany.