Poll: Your opinion on School Uniforms.

[Tsun Tzu]

I said No and No...however, I'm reconsidering my answer.

It would have resolved many an issue of bullying due to attire/interests/etc. and, frankly, I would have been much better dressed. Also, I would know how to tie a tie.


...Also, skirts.

 

[Cry Wolf]

their is still room for individuality.

Depends where you attended school. This certainly wasn't the case for my last high school which, despite being a public school, had (and still has) an incredibly strict uniform policy. The uniform was long, grey formal pants with a white, long sleeve shirt and tie. The tie had to be done up all te way to your neck, the shirt had to be tucked in and the pants had to be of a certain material (which I forget, but it was particularly uncomfortable). Realise that I live in a pretty hot part of coastal Australia - this uniform was hell in the 40*C + Summer Daus but that wasn't actually the worst part. The jumper was useless, it would not keep you warm and in the rain in smelled horrible. The wind would blow right through it just in case it wasn't bad enough. That uniform has to be the worst thing I've every worn.

But hey, we can make it worse! All of it had to be bought from the school or it's suppliers, or you'd be constantly harrased about it. The very expensive suppliers. For this horrid uniform (that came apart quite easily, so replacements were pretty frequent) you had to pay an arm and a leg at a *public* school. The uniform policy also meant no dyed hair, no jewlery of any kind and severe punishments for breaking the uniform. We were either too hot or too cold, but always uncomfortable and low on money. Yay.

It's a lot harder for someone to be bullied for the clothes they wear when everyone is wearing the same thing

...have you ever been to a school without uniform? Even a casual day. The idea that people get bullied over their clothes is bullshit.

EDIT: Actually, it isn't total bullshit. I remember from one of my schools with a uniform a kid getting picked on by staff and students because he was from a background without enough money to replace his ragged uniform. Go figure.

 

[Images]

It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

Because they're totally unnecessary and restrict expression amongst other things.

Or they're just clothes. Clothes that identify kids as being of the same institution and also stop them taking the piss by coming in with low jeans showing of g-strings or t-shirts that might say "fuck the police" or "I love smoking dope" on them. Even though I do love smoking dope I can imagine it would be a pain in the ass for teachers to have to nitpick time and time again for every occasion something might be out of line and having to laboriously and tediously redefine the rules. Easier just to set one set of clothing. In the outside world they can wear whatever the hell they want.

And clothes are a form of expression? REALLY? I wear clothes to cover my schlong and stay warm. If they look good, bonus but I dont really go, "Behold my outfit! It is a window to my very soul! Gaze long and I shall tell thee where the sale is". I'm a Media & Communication grad btw and aware of subcultures and the use of clothing as one of the forms of identification within social spheres but is that not of itself a uniform? A school uniform simply states, "No, you're all one group, not lots of mini ones. With one purpose, to learn"...which is the point.

And yes keeping your uniform in presentable form builds the idea of having respect for your own appearance.

 

[Rossco64]

their is still room for individuality.

Depends where you attended school. This certainly wasn't the case for my last high school which, despite being a public school, had (and still has) an incredibly strict uniform policy. The uniform was long, grey formal pants with a white, long sleeve shirt and tie. The tie had to be done up all te way to your neck, the shirt had to be tucked in and the pants had to be of a certain material (which I forget, but it was particularly uncomfortable). Realise that I live in a pretty hot part of coastal Australia - this uniform was hell in the 40*C + Summer Daus but that wasn't actually the worst part. The jumper was useless, it would not keep you warm and in the rain in smelled horrible. The wind would blow right through it just in case it wasn't bad enough. That uniform has to be the worst thing I've every worn.

But hey, we can make it worse! All of it had to be bought from the school or it's suppliers, or you'd be constantly harrased about it. The very expensive suppliers. For this horrid uniform (that came apart quite easily, so replacements were pretty frequent) you had to pay an arm and a leg at a *public* school. The uniform policy also meant no dyed hair, no jewlery of any kind and severe punishments for breaking the uniform. We were either too hot or too cold, but always uncomfortable and low on money. Yay.

But those really aren't problems caused by uniforms per say, but rather problem caused by asinine rules regarding uniform. If your school had been less strict and the uniforms were affordable do you think your opinion would be the same?

It's a lot harder for someone to be bullied for the clothes they wear when everyone is wearing the same thing

...have you ever been to a school without uniform? Even a casual day. The idea that people get bullied over their clothes is bullshit.

But it isn't though. Yes many people, such as yourself, have posted that they never experienced or witnessed clothes related bullying, but just as many people have posted that they have experienced or witnessed it which means it does happen. Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hell I never experienced it (aside from maybe a bit of "boyish" banter on non uniform days) but I know it happens because kids are ass-holes. All of them, even the nice ones. Most of them don't realise it, they're not emotionally mature enough, and if they did they'd probably feel bad, but they're still ass-holes. Uniforms just get rid of one less thing for them to be ass-hoes about.

But seriously though, I really do feel for you having to put up with those kind of rules and expenses. We used to get the whole "wear the uniform like this" shtick all the time, although everyone just seemed to ignore it. I heard they got stricter for a while after I left but the heads seemed to have given up judging by what my sister wears.
Regarding the expenses, does Australia not have laws stating mandatory school uniforms must be made affordable within public schools? We got those here (well in Scotland at least, not sure about the rest of the UK).

 

[Crazy]

I do believe school uniforms, if done correctly, can make a student such jailbait.
...

But that's besides the point! School uniforms, if done correctly, can be quite helpful in certain schools. Take vocational schools for examples, uniforms are usually a must there for safety reasons within the shops. Can also deter distraction based on looks (normally...), and kids don't have to worry how they'll look while playing dress-up.

 

[Brutal Peanut]

I went to a Private School (an Assembly of God fellowship - so you can imagine the uniform rules and guidelines) for eight years and we wore uniforms. We were told because they put us all on equal footing.

Since my parents were paying for not only me, but my sister to attend this school as well, money was tight. We had to go to the second-hand shop (that the school allowed) for our uniforms. They always seemed to be ill-fitting, but they weren't terrible clothes. We also couldn't really afford buying the clothes over and over again when I wore through the knees, so my Mother patched them - or tried her best to. The kids were cruel a lot of the time, even though we were supposed to be on equal footing. If they tired of picking on my clothes, they just chose other things.

I don't think uniforms are a bad or terrible idea. If a child or group of children want to be cruel, they'll find something. They always do. Clothes, hair, the way your nose sits on your face, the way your name sounds, anything. So if a school would like their students to wear uniforms, I don't think it's unfair or unacceptable and the idea behind it makes sense (at least to me), but I would have preferred to just be able to wear jeans and t-shirts.

 

[Raven_Operative]

Honestly I wish my school had a uniform... It kinda makes me sick to see all these wannabe 'gangstas' and girls wearing semi transparent shirts. For some reason it just really urks me when I see someone with their belt line about 20cm above the floor.

 

[Glaber]

I chose others (Didn't go to school) and I'm totally against it, I find it senseless. You should be confortable to sit and study all morning 5 times per week.

 

[SoulSalmon]

I answered "no" but it's a bit more complicated then that.
For references sake: I'm fucking huge but it's not fat or muscle, I'm just a tall wide person (well I am fat but that's a more recent thing that I'm gonna take care of) this makes buying clothes hard cos most "large" clothes (XXL and above) are made for fat people and don't fit me well.

In early highschool we had 'lax' uniforms.
They basically just went: something in the school colours (blue, white, grey) and nothing silly for a school environment (enclosed shoes, sleeved shirts, pants covering your crotch, etc) and this was pretty good.

Then they introduced actual UNIFORMS... you had to buy these from the school and a full uniform ran you about $150 for a shirt and pants (my current clothing was about $30 for the same).
Mine had to be custom made pushing the price up closer to $200 and it was made from %100 polyester, which itched and clung to you during summer.
That uniform was BURNT when I left school.

Then I went to Tafe (kinda like college for those outside Aus), no uniform, better environment as a whole.

 

[Joccaren]

And some schools have dress codes requiring you to wear them a certain way. My old middle school demanded people tuck their shirts in and we didn't even have a uniform.

So do most schools. You'll find that kids won't listen to that part of the rules though, and will leave it untucked unless a teacher tells them to tuck it in, in which case they'll tuck the front in and untuck it around the corner. Again, a way of expressing yourself with the school uniform; you are showing who you are through your actions, you don't need to wear specific clothes to do that.

And now we're moving the goalposts.

I'm merely resetting them to what they originally were. This discussion was never "I can express myself more with custom clothes than with a school uniform", it was "You don't need custom clothes to express yourself". I have simply provided examples of other, far more effective, ways of expressing yourself that aren't your clothes, thus proving my point that you don't need to wear your own set of clothes to express yourself.

If it's a restrictive rule that the schools don't need then as a general rule of thumb it's better to not have it.

Restrictive rules that society doesn't need;
Legal Drinking Age
Age at which you can start learning to Drive
Different pricing's for different ages at cinemas and such
Age restrictions on movies and videogames
ect.
However, you will find that a great number of people think that the positives of these restrictions outweigh the negatives, and it is the same for school uniforms. You don't NEED any of these rules, but there are advantages to having them.
Simply because something isn't needed doesn't mean its better not to have it. Its only better not to have if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

You admitted that there are ways to express yourself with clothing that can't be done with school uniforms so they limit expression. Next you counter with 'students don't need it' which is a weak excuse because schools don't need the uniforms.

I also emphasised that clothing is the least important part of expressing yourself, and you don't need to be able to wear your own clothing to do so, thus matching the original quote's stance of "If you do need clothes to express your personality, you don't have one". If you are that dependent on wearing certain clothes to be able to express yourself, I'd be worrying about something very different to whether or not you can wear those clothes.
I also counter with "Students don't need it" as it shows how absolutely weak your own "School's don't need it" complaint is. As said, we could go on all day listing things that aren't needed, in the end it doesn't matter whether something is needed or not. What does matter is whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and for many schools they do.

 

[ShockValue]

Meh, I had to wear them all through high school but I'm kind of indifferent about them. Not really big enough of a deal for me to like or hate them.
[sup]Still not fun in winter though...[/sup]

 

[Strazdas]

It makes me sad to live on a planet where majority of youth think school uniforms are acceptable....

Uh... and why are they so terribly unacceptable?

limits people choices, their ability to be unique, sends a message of, for lack of better expression, being jut another brick in the wall, is overly expensive, often poorly designed, does not fit the temperatural changes (or you need to ahve like 20 different uniforms) and automatically associates you with an institution. just to begin with.

 

[Sacman]

[sup]Still not fun in winter though...[/sup]

School uniforms are fun anytime of the year... though there's a good chance that we're not thinking of the same kind of fun...

 

[Joccaren]

And that's still a load of crap. As we already established there's only so much you can express through a uniform vs. any combination of text and images and style.

And there's only so much that you can express with text and images vs personality, actions, attitude, speech quirks and everything else in your life. I don't know why you insist on using clothes as the ONLY way anybody could EVER express themselves, because its not. Its not necessary to express yourself, and if you can't express yourself without a certain set of clothes you have nothing to express. Its not "School Uniforms vs Free Dress" its "Clothes vs Everything else".

Alcohol can kill if you drink too much, plus it'll damage young bodies.

2 possible responses to this:
We don't need to ensure the safety of other people. Let them live how they want and let natural selection take its course.
The same argument as the guns argument that keeps coming up, and has been proven when alcohol was made illegal; If people want alcohol, they'll get it. They'll get it illegally, however, if there is a restriction in their way however. We don't need a pointless restriction that really stops nothing.

Are you serious? We have restrictions on who can drive a car because cars can kill others and cause massive property damage.

I never said anything about no restrictions on who can drive, I said the restrictions on the AGE at which people can start LEARNING to drive. Why does it need to be 16? Why not 12 and let them have years more experience behind the wheel? So long as their parents believe they're able to drive, let them start to learn.
Also, there's the thing with not needing to stop natural selection again.

I'm fairly certain that's not the law just the rules the cinema sets up.

Never said they had to be laws, only unneeded things that restrict society.

The only age restrictions we have are for porn.

2 points:
1. There is an MA15+ rating that requires you to be over 15 to be allowed to watch said content [As opposed to the simple M 15+ rating which is just a guideline. Its stupid, I know, but that's the way it is - at least over here] and an R18+ rating for things that are only allowed to be watched by people 18 and over, and this is not exclusive to porn.
2. Why restrict porn? Because people at the age of consent aren't old enough to watch people doing it? Because it'll corrupt the children? Again, people will watch it if they want to watch it, restrictions or no, and the choice should come down to the individuals or their parents, not the law, in this regard.

I can't think of a single advantage to them. Every type of clothing you wish to ban can be banned with a dress code which is much less restrictive. It won't stop bullying it won't stop clique forming and it probably won't slow it down much. The only positives I cna think of is the subjective 'feel like a team' bit that not everyone feels anyway.

Again, the subjective thing of fitting in. There is also reduced bullying and clique forming, no it doesn't stop it but it does reduce it. There is easy identification on field trips and interschool events, school pride for those who are into that sort of thing, a unified image for the school's publicity and others. There are positives to the system, if there weren't nobody would use it.
Additionally, banning only certain items whilst leaving a free range for people to choose from removes some of these benefits, which is why such a method is not used.

Will you please stop spouting your opinion like it's fact. Also your counter to "some personalities can't be expressed with uniforms" is "well those aren't worth expressing". You don't see that as pompous and arrogant?

No. Uniforms alone aren't enough to express some personalities, but neither is any set of clothes you could ever find. Where you're personality is expressed from is your actions, mannerisms, behaviour, expressions, body language, attitude - basically, by you living.
When I see someone wearing an ACDC shirt I don't instantly go "That guy's someone who drives a Ute and does tradie work with a buzz cut, and has his music blaring at full volume the whole ride" because 99% of the time I'd be wrong. I look at how they behave, how they interact with other people, what their body language is, how they speak and everything else about them, and from that I determine who they are. Why your clothes say means fuck all towards your personality. You could be wearing clothes straight, you could be wearing them ironically, you could be being forced to wear them. They aren't what expresses who you are to people. Who you are is what expresses that, and that's what I've been saying all along. You are never just the personality your clothes puts forward, and that is why its not a matter of "Some personalities can't be expressed with uniforms". Clothes alone aren't what express your personality, they merely accentuate it. With a uniform and everything else in your life you can express yourself almost as much as you can with any clothes and everything else in your life. Its not that Uniform's can't express far more than clothes, but that clothes express nowhere within the same galaxy the amount of your personality that the rest of your life does. Whether you realise it or not, your clothes mean nothing as to who you are. I'll look at someone walking by, take a picture, and send you links to the clothes they are wearing in a shop's brochure. You tell me who they are. No, you don't get to see them wearing the clothes - just the clothes. This is my point - clothes aren't your personality. They are like the candles on a birthday cake, they bring attention to the cake, but they aren't part of it.

Students don't need it and schools don't need it. You cannot use 'you don't need it' as a reason to put up arbitrary rules. Even if they didn't need it to express whatever they want, so what. That's a weak excuse to bring out uniforms. How about the cost of these things?

You also can't use "You don't need it" as a reason to arbitrarily pull down rules. As much as "They don't need it to express whatever they want" is a weak excuse to bring out uniforms, "They need it to express whatever they want" is also a weak excuse to push back uniforms.
As for price, as I've said previously that is one of the primary negatives of school uniforms. I've been at both ends of the spectrum on this, a school wear I got 3 sets of the winter and summer uniform for just over $100, and a school where a single set of the entire uniform cost me $700. IMO if a school is going to charge an exorbitant amount for its uniform it can fuck the hell off and pay for it itself, meanwhilst cheaper school uniform's aren't as much of a problem.
That also falls onto the onus of the parent though: If you can't stand the cost of those school uniforms, don't go to that school.

 

[MammothBlade]

I went to a school which required uniform, and I don't really have a problem with them, but Japanese uniforms look far superior. In the UK they are mostly ugly, drab affairs.