I forgot who said this, but basically, in another universe it's not that it functions outside the laws of physics, it's physics are just different then our own. (Not an exact quote, i kind of butchered it.)Ultratwinkie said:
Pony Science
- Thread starter GeorgW
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that's quite alright, that's what good science is all about,stating a hypothesis and adding and revising as we go,and on that note i too am looking forward to said revised chartMelon Hunter said:
don't quote me on the number all i know is that price blueblood is removed enough times to that he has no DIRECT decent from either Luna or Celestia, and your Non-dynastic prince theory is a viable one but other than faust's word that he related somehow we don't know if there's enough royal blood for him to be a "blood prince" (ohh think of the shame prince BLUEBLOOD isn't a genuine price at all, how scandalise)Quaxar said:
You make me want to start my own science thread. "Royal relations in Equestria" or something.Nerdstar said:
I'd add heraldry there too but unfortunately I have never seen any kind of coat of arm or flag in the show. A shame, really, because I find heraldry actually quite interesting.
Alicorns are cosmic deities who control heavenly bodies, they might be above genetics. Otherwise, great work, earth pony genes would explain Derpy's flight problems.
o.0
I've nothing really to add, since even trying to start wrapping my head around this would probably result in a bottle of Tylenol getting killed just to keep the head ache to a dull roar.
but i am rather impressed, though while 'alicorns are divine, thus above genetics' works for Luna and Celestia, what about them as an odd mutation, it happens some times right? sides
it would let me explain the pony i made up XD
(EI:: they are pretty much no more magical then the average Unicorn, just with the added traits of the Pegasus side)
I've nothing really to add, since even trying to start wrapping my head around this would probably result in a bottle of Tylenol getting killed just to keep the head ache to a dull roar.
but i am rather impressed, though while 'alicorns are divine, thus above genetics' works for Luna and Celestia, what about them as an odd mutation, it happens some times right? sides
it would let me explain the pony i made up XD(EI:: they are pretty much no more magical then the average Unicorn, just with the added traits of the Pegasus side)
Somebody hasn't seen the new Thor movie yet...Ultratwinkie said:
When Thor was talking to Natalie Portman's character about his world, he came up with an explanation.
This may not be exact, but it should be close.
"In the ancient times, they called it magic. In your time, they call it science. In our world, it is a mixture of both."
It's not that magic and science can't coexist. We just haven't found the link yet.
Wait... wait...
I love this breakdown, but (I'm about to post an irrelevant notation about your chart) wouldn't Pinkie Pie be Earth Dominant and Pegasus Recessive seeing how she was originally designed as a Pegasus Pony during the Character Development of the show?
Anyway, I love this chart, but as someone else commented I'm sure Alicorn's are rare breeds conceived from royal seed. Simply mixing a Pure Unicorn and a Pure Pegasus I gather wouldn't produce a practical deity.
The royal structure of Equestria surly works in where the royal gene that allows for Alicorns is a genetic mutation that forms in Unicorn/Pegasus hybrids. It's recessive, so that's why it's rare to find any even in the royal family. I'm not aware of the breeding rates of Equines, but seeing as Celestia and Luna are sisters it probably means anywhere between a 1-in-3 or 1-in-5 ratio of Alicorn births in the royal family.
Unless a royal breeds with a earth pony, in which case it'd come out a Powerful Pegasus or a Powerful Unicorn seeing as only one half of the Alicorn is present.
Or, you know what? Spores and Magic Moonlight reflected from tears, or in this case probably Rainbows of Light (As opposed to the Rainbow of Darkness, which just kinda shape-shifts things. Ooo, maybe that's what possessed Little Luna and transformed the jealousy in the young one's heart into the wicked Nightmare Moon... what is a Rainbow of Darkness anyway?).
I love this breakdown, but (I'm about to post an irrelevant notation about your chart) wouldn't Pinkie Pie be Earth Dominant and Pegasus Recessive seeing how she was originally designed as a Pegasus Pony during the Character Development of the show?
Anyway, I love this chart, but as someone else commented I'm sure Alicorn's are rare breeds conceived from royal seed. Simply mixing a Pure Unicorn and a Pure Pegasus I gather wouldn't produce a practical deity.
The royal structure of Equestria surly works in where the royal gene that allows for Alicorns is a genetic mutation that forms in Unicorn/Pegasus hybrids. It's recessive, so that's why it's rare to find any even in the royal family. I'm not aware of the breeding rates of Equines, but seeing as Celestia and Luna are sisters it probably means anywhere between a 1-in-3 or 1-in-5 ratio of Alicorn births in the royal family.
Unless a royal breeds with a earth pony, in which case it'd come out a Powerful Pegasus or a Powerful Unicorn seeing as only one half of the Alicorn is present.
Or, you know what? Spores and Magic Moonlight reflected from tears, or in this case probably Rainbows of Light (As opposed to the Rainbow of Darkness, which just kinda shape-shifts things. Ooo, maybe that's what possessed Little Luna and transformed the jealousy in the young one's heart into the wicked Nightmare Moon... what is a Rainbow of Darkness anyway?).
That's when there's an equal part of both, and we had the male dominance decide.^=ash=^ said:
Melon Hunter said:
We're gonna change Pinkie back to Ep as she originally was.Nerdstar said:
And Prince Blueblood was supposed to be a duke, so that might help?
We're having some trouble with the new, more complex, chart. First, E3 is proving a lot more exciting, secondly the hybrids are way too common, and thirdly we just like the original more. We'll see how it goes.
*sigh* This can only end badly...
WARNING: Some strong language and Bad MS paint bloodspray! *heeheehee, i 've always wanted to say that!*
When will it end!?
WARNING: Some strong language and Bad MS paint bloodspray! *heeheehee, i 've always wanted to say that!*
When will it end!?
60 comments later, I'm back!
I've read trough your fantastic comments that would help develop the chart even more.
Well currenty, I have slept and now in school (well, I'm in GMT+2), will read trough your comments even more when I get home.
Also, if you think Pinkie Pie has recessive Pegasus-gene (Ep), I can change back, which was what I had at first.
Seeing Celestia and Luna as mutations and have strong powers.
I'll talk whith GeorgW abouth this and a new table may be featured 16:00-18:00 (GMT+2).
But now: Work...
EDIT: Continue posting! Will happily to read more
I've read trough your fantastic comments that would help develop the chart even more.
Well currenty, I have slept and now in school (well, I'm in GMT+2), will read trough your comments even more when I get home.
Also, if you think Pinkie Pie has recessive Pegasus-gene (Ep), I can change back, which was what I had at first.
Seeing Celestia and Luna as mutations and have strong powers.
I'll talk whith GeorgW abouth this and a new table may be featured 16:00-18:00 (GMT+2).
But now: Work...
EDIT: Continue posting! Will happily to read more
I love this type of analysis. That article makes me want to write a fanfic about a Ponyville French Revolution. Applejack decapitates Celestia. And then the cows rise up and form their own nation state.Aidinthel said:
And while the hypothesis about Alicorns presented by the OP seems plausible, I'm not sure observation bears it out. Luna and Celestia are the only examples of their kind, for one thing, and they are markedly different from the other species. Most notably, they're either immortal or live incredibly long lives. They're bigger and more slender than other ponies as well, not to mention the insane level of magical prowess they posses. They're something else entirely.
I think the most rational thing to conclude, given the universe, is that the reproductive process in Equestria is entirely alien from the processes we observe in real life. After all, several natural processes, most notably weather, that are ostensibly similar to real phenomena are controlled by pony ingenuity and magic. After all, ponies don't apparently have genitalia, though it may be assumed that Faust is just being polite not drawing it. We've already seen how emotional connectivity and social cohesion can be a catalyst for magic well beyond the scope of any individual. Perhaps the power of love in this universe is directly responsible for reproduction, as opposed to our world, where it is merely related, if that.
Of course, this makes the explanation for the pervasiveness of dual genders throughout Equestrian fauna a little more complicated at best, and might have some homophobic implications at worst.
God this is embarrassingly fun to consider.
Different universe, different physical laws. Science is a method, not the collective knowledge we've gained over the years. As long as the fictional universe follows a consistent enough internal logic, science still applies. And that's a good thing since Twilight (my favorite character) is a scientist.Ultratwinkie said:
Aww... too bad, I'm currently at a friend and will not get to my computer until tomorrow. Sorry to all...
Less than 5 years ago, they weren't even sure anti-matter even existed. Recently they not only proved it, they were able to hold onto it for a short period of time.Ultratwinkie said:
Just because they haven't had a successful experiment doesn't mean they never will.
*sigh* OK then, let me give you the purpose of science in rather layman's terms. "Science is the belief that I live in a universe that follows a set of logical rules and that if I study and experiment enough I can understand those rules and apply them. There is no penalty for being wrong in science. Science is the constant search for the truth."
As to the 'physically impossible' argument, I'll just say this. "Welcome to another universe. Your laws of physics don't apply here. Please check the brochure to see how our laws are different than yours, and have a nice day." Or if you want a different quote, "That light there is our own universe. And that one is the next universe over. I don't like it at all, the physics are so counter intuitive." You are suffering from the Equivalence Fallacy, the belief that two similar things must be equal.
As to the 'no magic and science' argument, let me put it this way. The SUN rising used to be considered magic. Many things we have thought were supernatural have proven to be natural. Twilight herself rejects the idea of the supernatural, meaning that this universes magic follows a logical pattern. It can be studied and learned via specific formulas. Magic in the MLP setting could best be described as the manipulation of energy via inborn abilities to cause a desired effect. It is knowledge that can be studied and utilized. Much as chemistry used to be thought of as the supernatural 'alchemy', so to could the spellcasting of Equestria be an improperly explained science.
As to the 'physically impossible' argument, I'll just say this. "Welcome to another universe. Your laws of physics don't apply here. Please check the brochure to see how our laws are different than yours, and have a nice day." Or if you want a different quote, "That light there is our own universe. And that one is the next universe over. I don't like it at all, the physics are so counter intuitive." You are suffering from the Equivalence Fallacy, the belief that two similar things must be equal.
As to the 'no magic and science' argument, let me put it this way. The SUN rising used to be considered magic. Many things we have thought were supernatural have proven to be natural. Twilight herself rejects the idea of the supernatural, meaning that this universes magic follows a logical pattern. It can be studied and learned via specific formulas. Magic in the MLP setting could best be described as the manipulation of energy via inborn abilities to cause a desired effect. It is knowledge that can be studied and utilized. Much as chemistry used to be thought of as the supernatural 'alchemy', so to could the spellcasting of Equestria be an improperly explained science.
There doesn't need to be any evolution if the universe was created as is. The creation of the pony universe could have been instantaneous and complete, a la Genesis chapter 1. Besides, even if it did exist, coevolution could explain other animals needing ponies. At one time they may have been independent, but they eventually developed a cooperative relationship with the ponies. AS their traits which favored independence became obsolete, they drifted out.Ultratwinkie said:
I'm assuming that you're talking about the episode where Twilight tries to explain Pinkie's twitches and she straps her in to a bunch of machines with blinking lights. This is simply a set up played for laughs [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayedForLaughs] and no such technology shows up anywhere else. There are some other instances of ostensibly electrical devices, such as lights and fans and electric guitar music, but it's entirely plausible that they've mastered electricity. They just don't really need it. Perhaps it's comparatively difficult and costly for them to produce. I get what you're saying about the steam engine, but steam power doesn't have to come before electricity. Of course, that just leaves one to wonder why there was a smokestack on the front of that train. (I consider that a mistake, myself.) It's still consistent (and plausible) enough.Ultratwinkie said:
I reject your definition of magic on the grounds that it is too narrow. Magic has rules in this universe. It can be analyzed, reproduced, and understood. Defining the origin as supernatural is begging the question. If a phenomena is governed by coherent laws, it can be analyzed. And sufficiently analyzed magic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic] is indistinguishable from what?Ultratwinkie said:
1. Different world. Different rules. There can be a prime mover in this universe if there needs to be. Hell, there could even be an infinite regress if that's what the creator felt like. If the world was created in its current state, then the lack of automation isn't a problem. As long as the ponies and other creatures were always there to perform their duties (or something else was there before them), it would work. And I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I do know that through co-evolution, species can become entirely dependent on one another. But that's neither here nor there, since it's not necessary for evolution to be a natural process in this universe anyway.Ultratwinkie said:
2. As ponies, they have different problems from us. They don't eat meat, so refrigeration becomes less important. And as I said earlier, they actually have most of those other things you mentioned. Anything they seem to be "missing," despite their apparent ability to create it can probably be explained by the notion that they simply have a better alternative, or never needed it in the first place. Magic handles most of that work.
3. I'm not switching magic for science. I'm saying that what they call "magic" in that universe is perfectly explicable by scientific method. That's the whole point of Twilight's apprenticeship to Celestia. You're the one who's equivocating.