Pony Science

[Unesh52]

right, because lifting an entire orchard of apples using a magical horn is scientifically possible despite every experiment of telekenisis done saying otherwise.

Different universe, different physical laws. Science is a method, not the collective knowledge we've gained over the years. As long as the fictional universe follows a consistent enough internal logic, science still applies. And that's a good thing since Twilight (my favorite character) is a scientist.

 

[Crazy_Dude]

By the day these ponies just keep getting creepier.

 

[Liggliluff]

Aww... too bad, I'm currently at a friend and will not get to my computer until tomorrow. Sorry to all...

 

[DocMcCray]

4. Science with magic? Its one or the other, but not both.

In MLP, science no longer applies.

Somebody hasn't seen the new Thor movie yet...

When Thor was talking to Natalie Portman's character about his world, he came up with an explanation.

This may not be exact, but it should be close.

"In the ancient times, they called it magic. In your time, they call it science. In our world, it is a mixture of both."

It's not that magic and science can't coexist. We just haven't found the link yet.

right, because lifting an entire orchard of apples using a magical horn is scientifically possible despite every experiment of telekenisis done saying otherwise.

Less than 5 years ago, they weren't even sure anti-matter even existed. Recently they not only proved it, they were able to hold onto it for a short period of time.

Just because they haven't had a successful experiment doesn't mean they never will.

 

[Zolem]

*sigh* OK then, let me give you the purpose of science in rather layman's terms. "Science is the belief that I live in a universe that follows a set of logical rules and that if I study and experiment enough I can understand those rules and apply them. There is no penalty for being wrong in science. Science is the constant search for the truth."

As to the 'physically impossible' argument, I'll just say this. "Welcome to another universe. Your laws of physics don't apply here. Please check the brochure to see how our laws are different than yours, and have a nice day." Or if you want a different quote, "That light there is our own universe. And that one is the next universe over. I don't like it at all, the physics are so counter intuitive." You are suffering from the Equivalence Fallacy, the belief that two similar things must be equal.

As to the 'no magic and science' argument, let me put it this way. The SUN rising used to be considered magic. Many things we have thought were supernatural have proven to be natural. Twilight herself rejects the idea of the supernatural, meaning that this universes magic follows a logical pattern. It can be studied and learned via specific formulas. Magic in the MLP setting could best be described as the manipulation of energy via inborn abilities to cause a desired effect. It is knowledge that can be studied and utilized. Much as chemistry used to be thought of as the supernatural 'alchemy', so to could the spellcasting of Equestria be an improperly explained science.

 

[Unesh52]

This also brings another flaw, lack of evolution and ecosystem. Clouds? Needing to be manipulated to make weather? That would mean the fauna and the ecosystem itself would die without rainfall. Animals needing to be woken up from hibernation? That means the animals starve to death which would make evolution impossible not to mention the lack of food chain. If nothing is automated, then no life would spring up. Having a skeptical mind when there are more holes in her universe than swiss cheese? Right, that's totally reasonable.

There doesn't need to be any evolution if the universe was created as is. The creation of the pony universe could have been instantaneous and complete, a la Genesis chapter 1. Besides, even if it did exist, coevolution could explain other animals needing ponies. At one time they may have been independent, but they eventually developed a cooperative relationship with the ponies. AS their traits which favored independence became obsolete, they drifted out.

Twilight has machinery that uses electricity

I'm assuming that you're talking about the episode where Twilight tries to explain Pinkie's twitches and she straps her in to a bunch of machines with blinking lights. This is simply a set up played for laughs [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlayedForLaughs] and no such technology shows up anywhere else. There are some other instances of ostensibly electrical devices, such as lights and fans and electric guitar music, but it's entirely plausible that they've mastered electricity. They just don't really need it. Perhaps it's comparatively difficult and costly for them to produce. I get what you're saying about the steam engine, but steam power doesn't have to come before electricity. Of course, that just leaves one to wonder why there was a smokestack on the front of that train. (I consider that a mistake, myself.) It's still consistent (and plausible) enough.

Magic =/= science.

I reject your definition of magic on the grounds that it is too narrow. Magic has rules in this universe. It can be analyzed, reproduced, and understood. Defining the origin as supernatural is begging the question. If a phenomena is governed by coherent laws, it can be analyzed. And sufficiently analyzed magic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic] is indistinguishable from what?

 

[Unesh52]

1. instant creation? If a great pony created the pony world, who created the great pony?

2. Right, because who needs electric lights, fans, machinery, and all the other things electricity made possible? Hell, the fridge alone is a worthwhile invention.

3. Your switching magic for science.

1. Different world. Different rules. There can be a prime mover in this universe if there needs to be. Hell, there could even be an infinite regress if that's what the creator felt like. If the world was created in its current state, then the lack of automation isn't a problem. As long as the ponies and other creatures were always there to perform their duties (or something else was there before them), it would work. And I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I do know that through co-evolution, species can become entirely dependent on one another. But that's neither here nor there, since it's not necessary for evolution to be a natural process in this universe anyway.

2. As ponies, they have different problems from us. They don't eat meat, so refrigeration becomes less important. And as I said earlier, they actually have most of those other things you mentioned. Anything they seem to be "missing," despite their apparent ability to create it can probably be explained by the notion that they simply have a better alternative, or never needed it in the first place. Magic handles most of that work.

3. I'm not switching magic for science. I'm saying that what they call "magic" in that universe is perfectly explicable by scientific method. That's the whole point of Twilight's apprenticeship to Celestia. You're the one who's equivocating.

 

[RaNDM G]

We also included what the mane cast would be genetically.

He's either a brony in disguise or is appealing to fans of the show. I'm leaning more to the latter.

 

[GeorgW]

We also included what the mane cast would be genetically.

He's either a brony in disguise or is appealing to fans of the show. I'm leaning more to the latter.

Heh, interesting to see the edit from your original quote, what prompted the change?
I actually added that based on Liggly's suggestion, so the credit goes to him. He's the brony, I'm not.

 

[Liggliluff]

We also included what the mane cast would be genetically.

He's either a brony in disguise or is appealing to fans of the show. I'm leaning more to the latter.

Heh, interesting to see the edit from your original quote, what prompted the change?
I actually added that based on Liggly's suggestion, so the credit goes to him. He's the brony, I'm not.

I said that maybe the gender should affect the outcome if there's no otherway to choose it (like a Pu+pU gives a pu, should it be Pu or pU?). GeorgW then said that it should be the male, I didn't.

And when talking gender... isn't it about 90% female? Then all males needs to mate with 9 females each to keep the population up?

 

[Unesh52]

1. That's creationism, and people get pissed when episode 15 is considered overly religious. (sarcasm)

2. Earth ponies don't have magic, and that would require some form of self defense. After all, a lion with a scorpion stinger? No one in their right mind would attack that without at least a spear and shield or a magic spell.

3. If it can be explained, its no longer magic. Its just another word for science.

I'm aware that it's creationism, but that's perfectly valid in this universe. With no evolution, no archaeological evidence showing an early period that would've been uninhabitable, and plenty of precedent for sentient creatures controlling nature (raising the sun and moon, making weather), Creation from magic becomes perfectly plausible. The fact that such a conclusion would require faith (or a heavy sedative and determined ignorance) to seem reasonable here is irrelevant. It's. A. Different. Place.

Earth ponies don't seem to have a problem with that now, do they? Probably because they don't live in the Everfree forest. Maybe it's because they're still perfectly capable of defending themselves without weapons (a whole town of them fought off buffalo in the episode with the Westward expansion analogy). Maybe it's because they've never lived without the help of the unicorns and pegasi. Even barring that, they've always been pretty adept at running away. The fact of the matter is, their world just isn't that dangerous, and even when it is, they do have the means to survive.

And it's only not science because you're equivocating magic with our usual definition of it IRL. If it existed in our world, I wouldn't call it magic either -- but that doesn't change the fact that the phenomena they term "magic" in the show is perfectly explicable and natural.

 

[Unesh52]

snip

Ok dude, I don't even understand what you're talking about anymore. The continuity isn't as rigid or important as it is in say, the DCU or Star Trek or whatever, but it's still there. Also, the show doesn't really go out of its way to explain magic, but it is implied that it follows strict rules. And "over the top without being called out?" What are you even saying?

This thread is dead anyway though. Love and friendship brother. G'night.

 

[Ninjasander]

snip

Ok dude, I don't even understand what you're talking about anymore. The continuity isn't as rigid or important as it is in say, the DCU or Star Trek or whatever, but it's still there. Also, the show doesn't really go out of its way to explain magic, but it is implied that it follows strict rules. And "over the top without being called out?" What are you even saying?

This thread is dead anyway though. Love and friendship brother. G'night.

Exactly. There is no continuity, explanation, nor attempts to explain. There is no logic, and by extent, no science in MLP. Its a children's show where anything goes because of magic not being bound by logic or laws. Science, logic, etc are all replaced by magic which cannot be explained in any length. By being over the top, there needs to be a reason. MLP's reason is magic, which means it can do anything. Look at ed edd and eddy, the reason is lack of reason and logic. How much stupid crap has ed done? and believed? Lack of knowledge coupled with too much comics and TV. Over the top "just because" is seen as random, with no logical path to follow. people will call that out. A story with no path of progress or logic only ends in an intelligible clusterfuck if taken seriously like applying science to it. Family Guy comes to mind at its worst. For example, Brian is an Atheist yet he sees Jesus Christ perform real miracles, and forgets all about it in the next episode. If you're into offenders in games, the Indigo Prophecy is the worst offender, taking the logic of the world and replacing it with another over the course of time. In short, MLP has no science or logic, it just does whatever it wants. Just like 4chan.

There is continuity, the show keeps pointing to things that have happened in earlier episodes, and 3 of the episodes are part of the same mini-story arc.

Magic is briefly explained in episode 9 and 15. And apparently there are limits to magic in MLP, but these limits seem to be there because the user is the limiting factor.
Magic is just another fundamental law of this universe.

Of course slapstick violence in this show is unexplainable in any logical way, and is just done for the lulz. There are always moments like this in cartoons. Probably some exceptions.

Another thing, in the everfree forest the animals fend for themselves and weather changes independent of ponies (See episode 9). Ponies only seem to have taken control of the weather and animals in the places they live. Kind of a smart choice. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[Kyoufuu]

The internet always amazes and- especially in this case- boggles and saddens.

To quote my friend: if meeting a shit tonne of chill people who evidently don't care what other people think and are just generally fun to be around is sad, if having something bright every week is sad, if rediscovering my love of fiction is sad, if the jokes and the fanart and the crazy speculation are sad, I don't want to be happy. Bronies for life.