Aardvaarkman said:
I already explained why. You don't think that the people in the interviews are not biased toward presenting their work in a positive light?
Because it's not all positive and because it's first hand. I'm inclined to believe the porn star than you as they not only have experience, but they also have facts, which you clearly do not have.
Aardvaarkman said:
Do you think they represent all people involved in porn?
No, much in the same way when you interview anyone from anywhere, they don't represent the whole. However, the interviews are a good source as they actually have experience working in said field.
Aardvaarkman said:
I am, you are not.
Aardvaarkman said:
How does a few interviews prove that the majority of women in porn enjoy it, and are perfectly happy doing it?
Because the majority aren't forced prostitutes who were kidnapped at a young age to only make porn. Why does the thought of using sex for not only pleasure, but a career get under your skin so much?
Aardvaarkman said:
Anybody producing porn for consumption is in the porn industry. You don't get to exclude the dodgy porn producers just because they are dodgy. They are in the business of producing porn, by suspect means. They are making money from it. thus, porn industry. And it's not just the producers, it's also the distributors. You don't think many of the websites that distribute porn don't get some of it from suspect sources?
Yes you are correct with that. I meant more along the lines of either you or me making a porn and then selling it. I am not excluding the dodgy porn produces, every business has them. However, you can't look at the legit porn industry and the smaller "indie" ones the same way.
Aardvaarkman said:
Forced prostitution in the production of porn. And, by the way, porn is a form of prostitution.
No actually it's not. It would be prostitution if it wasn't filmed.
Aardvaarkman said:
Where do you think most porn actors come from?
From space? Most are just regular people who really want to get into the career.
Aardvaarkman said:
Do you think that maybe a lot of them might come from a prostitution background? Or from the needs of financial circumstances?
Yes, I have said before, some do. It is inevitable. Much the same reason some join the army or the police force. They see it as their only choice/or to make some easy money.
Aardvaarkman said:
Or in your fantasy world do people just decide... "Hmmm.. what kind of career do I want? Doctor? Actor? Scientist? Nah, I'll become a porn star instead!"
Because they do! What about being a porn star as a career choice is so bad. People do actually want to use their bodies like that, express how they look and feel.
Aardvaarkman said:
But he wouldn't do it if there weren't demand for it, and money to be made. Again, part of the porn industry.
Again, no. That would be the sex trade industry. If porn didn't exist, you would still have the sex trade industry.
Aardvaarkman said:
This has got to be the biggest straw man you've been pushing in this thread. That if somehow one has problems with the porn industry, one must be sexually repressed. Nobody is making the argument that one can't enjoy sex.
No, I'm making an argument that people can enjoy sex
and make a career out of it.
Aardvaarkman said:
As a matter of fact, I have had relationships with women who have been strippers, ex-prostitutes and, yes, been in porn. I'm no stranger to kinky sexual practices. But I'm also no stranger to the emotional damage those things can cause. And yes, some of them have said that some aspects are empowering or enjoyable. But overwhelmingly, the overall experience is negative.
Same with anything, you'll find people who hate their job/didn't go into for the right reasons, and of course it'll be a negative experience. Again, like you keep telling me, how do these girls represent the majority. Unless you dated at least half from each strip club around the US/Europe, then you have no case really.
Aardvaarkman said:
By that, I mean, if one of these women is having sex recreationally, and not for work - how likely is it that they want to be called a little *****, strangled, and objectified? How likely is it that they are going to be faking orgasms, and saying stuff like "ooooh, baby, you're so big!" Sure, some will be into that - but not in the numbers represented by the porn industry. The majority of porn is presented for male fantasy, not female satisfaction.
Yes, porn is about the viewer satisfaction. However, they can still enjoy the work they do for it. Also, you bring females up a lot in this discussion. I guess men are not a part of it?
Aardvaarkman said:
I think your linking of recreational sex to porn is a bit off the mark, anyway. Porn is about making money, it's not really about sex, even though it does depict sex.
Not really. You asked if you didn't get paid for porn, you wouldn't do a lot of the things mentioned. Which I said was untrue, as people do stuff like that in porn for recreation. You even agreed with me. Porn is about giving the viewer the sexually satisfaction. If it doesn't do that, it's not really a good porn now is it.
Aardvaarkman said:
You are the one making a very bold unsubstantiated claim, it's your job to prove that, not mine.
It's both of our jobs to do so. Otherwise, if you have no evidence to back up your claims, then you have no argument. If this is your opinion you're giving me, then there isn't a whole lot I can do about that.
Aardvaarkman said:
All I said is that your claim that the porn industry is mostly all fun and games, it's all just about liberated sex, is rather questionable. In my experience it's a lot more complicated than that.
No, you claimed it's all forced prostitution with young girls who have been kidnapped. I claimed it is a legit field and career to go into. I never said it was all fun and games. I said it is a career, and like most careers people do enjoy it, when they choose it.
Aardvaarkman said:
Actually I've lived in places like that, and it's not as rosy as you paint it. There is plenty of exploitation in legal brothels, and street-walking and illegal brothels still exist in those places. And it is certainly not true that all sex workers are "proud of it."
Again, NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH THE JOBS THEY HAVE. Just the fact of life. However, they still receive benefits and the such for being treated like an actual job, because it is.
Aardvaarkman said:
I never said it represented the "entirety of porn"
You did though, that's what this whole argument is about.
Aardvaarkman said:
- the problem is that you seem to be pretending it doesn't exist. You are also off the mark when you say it only happens in "slums."
I am not pretending it doesn't exist. And I never said it only happens in the slums. More often than not, that's where the majority of people who get into for money/no other options/forced into it are.
Aardvaarkman said:
You keep missing the point. There is loads of forced prostitution in the porn industry. And the way mainstream porn frequently uses objectify images of abuse doesn't help that, or women in general.
Yes there are. Just not the majority of it. Again what about men! Men are in porn to you know. But as you pointed out, it is a fantasy world, porn. Where all men have giant dicks, and women have giant racks and the like. It is a place where you can see your fantasies. Using your body to express your sexuality is not "objectifying".
Aardvaarkman said:
The way the "proper" porn industry generally depicts women just gives cover for people who commit abuse, and makes it seem normal.
I am saving this, as I clearly need to show my girlfriend this. I clearly have been abusing her with all the porn I watch.
But that is a very bold statement sir, care to back that up?
Aardvaarkman said:
You talk a lot about liberation and empowerment, but that's not how women are portrayed in most porn.
That's how most women view it. Sure you'll find lots of women against that, but you'll also find many who approve and love it.
