Portal Creator Sees End to Industry Sexism in 20 Years

[Aaron Sylvester]

Women/girls aren't interested in game development as much as men. How the HELL is that "sexism"? Can someone please explain, or is this Kim Swift being delusional?

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

To truly reinforce my point, look up the Norwegian Gender Equality Paradox. After looking it up, tell me with a straight face that women aren't interested in engineering/construction because of "sexism", and men aren't interested in becoming health nurses due to "sexism".

They are free to choose their profession, and nobody needs to roll out a red carpet for them and offer cookies & milk with gentle reassurances that everything will be alright just because their gender in general isn't interested in the profession.

Kim Swift is making it sound like women are weak and need help choosing their profession - no they don't, they're adults and can decide for themselves.

 

[Zachery Gaskins]

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

It isn't THAT the genders tend to sway towards certain professions, it's WHY they tend to sway that is the issue. If it was simply a matter of that something physically about gender prevents an activity from being performed effectively despite any attempt by the person to overcome the deficiency, that'd be one thing.

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

 

[freaper]

Yes! And more female gaming commentators! Seriously, if someone knows a funny, witty and interesting gamer chick on youtube, please, I have only dudes in my sub-box.

 

[Ukomba]

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

It isn't THAT the genders tend to sway towards certain professions, it's WHY they tend to sway that is the issue. If it was simply a matter of that something physically about gender prevents an activity from being performed effectively despite any attempt by the person to overcome the deficiency, that'd be one thing.

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Yup, we should all go the way of Sweden, where cars aren't allowed in schools as play things because boys prefer them, teachers aren't allowed to use words like 'he' and 'she', and you can sue a toy company for showing a girl playing with a doll on a toy add. I can't wait!

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Please tell me where they're told "because reasons". If a girl said she wanted to be a game developer and the university told her "sorry you're not allowed in this C Programming class", "sorry no entrance to girls in this 3D Design class...because reasons", "sorry this game design school doesn't allow girls", THEN you would have a goddamn point. Show me evidence of this kind of shit happening all over the place, THEN you would have a point.

But when a girl says "I want to become a dentist!" who the hell is anyone to tell her she should pursue game design instead? Game design doesn't attract her interest, and that's the end of that!

The reason as to WHY genders sway towards certain professions is deep in the realms of science & research, not political debates about whether it's sexism or not. Men are men, women are women, there ARE differences. Let the scientists figure those differences out fair n' square. The world goes on regardless of which gender is or isn't interested in X or Y profession, and so far the world has done pretty darn well looking at how far we've come.

I will admit that the founders of game design and gaming as a whole were primarily male, so obviously gaming became a male thing and as a result most game designers ended up being male. That's how it turned out, you can't change the past. But more women ARE getting interested in gaming & game design, which is great. Except for the way some people harp on about it, making it sound like some sort of epidemic that not enough women are into game design? It's like complaining that not enough men are midwives. They are perfectly capable of doing it right? So please, none of this sexism talk.

I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

 

[Abomination]

I believe Kim Swift was talking about there being more female DESIGNERS rather than a prevalence of completely gender neutral games.

As usual the idea of trying to make a workforce as close to a 50/50 split between genders is foolish and moronic. There are social factors and consumer trends. At the moment it is more likely for there to be big-name male designers because designers are also gamers. The gender of the majority of people who will pick up a AAA title are male.

This isn't like more females becoming doctors - doctors are exposed to females just as much, if not more so, than men. The consumer base is completely equal so there will be an eventual wax and wane between gender majority in the profession. Video games do NOT have the same consumer base statistics. Sure there are more girl 'gamers' out there but proportion of sales of individual titles still heavily weigh on the male demographic.

I just hope there aren't going to be any affirmative action "incentives" to get females into the gaming industry. I can not stand affirmative action.

 

[Vault101]

Exactly right, stand up and be a role model if you want to change things, instead of complaining about them from behind your computer.

I hope things go well for her.

right.....

so that last game you didn't like, should you go become a game developer and make one better? should you invade the warehouses, wallmarts, and gamestops where its store and bomb them with self made explosives! do somthing about it rather thna complain behined a omptuer screen!

 

[lollerskating]

When someone is completely and reasonably capable of doing a thing and then is told not to "because reasons", that's ***ism in general. And it's privilege that makes it difficult for guys to see just how prevalent that is.

Please tell me where they're told "because reasons". If a girl said she wanted to be a game developer and the university told her "sorry you're not allowed in this C Programming class", "sorry no entrance to girls in this 3D Design class...because reasons", "sorry this game design school doesn't allow girls", THEN you would have a goddamn point. Show me evidence of this kind of shit happening all over the place, THEN you would have a point.

Ask any female gamer if they've ever experienced harassment solely because of their physical sex and the answer is yes. When someone is being belittled and sometimes straight up laughed at by her peers for simply being into games do you think it's a good incentive to actually get into making them?

Especially when this is what they find when they take a deeper look into the industry:
http://www.gamefront.com/sexism-in-gaming-5-reasons-its-a-thing/

But when a girl says "I want to become a dentist!" who the hell is anyone to tell her she should pursue game design instead? Game design doesn't attract her interest, and that's the end of that!

She might be interested as hell but it's a huge deal to subject yourself to things like this just trying to get into the industry:
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/12/tedxwomen-talk-on-sexist-harassment-cyber-mobs/

The reason as to WHY genders sway towards certain professions is deep in the realms of science & research, not political debates about whether it's sexism or not. Men are men, women are women, there ARE differences. Let the scientists figure those differences out fair n' square. The world goes on regardless of which gender is or isn't interested in X or Y profession, and so far the world has done pretty darn well looking at how far we've come.

The human gender is an immensely complex and fluid thing, just like sexuality, and you can't simply divide people into two groups and call it quits. Physical sex is another thing, but that has little to do with what's happening in your brain. Ask any trans* person. This is not the issue we're debating so I won't get further into it.

I will admit that the founders of game design and gaming as a whole were primarily male, so obviously gaming became a male thing and as a result most game designers ended up being male. That's how it turned out, you can't change the past. But more women ARE getting interested in gaming & game design, which is great. Except for the way some people harp on about it, making it sound like some sort of epidemic that not enough women are into game design? It's like complaining that not enough men are midwives. They are perfectly capable of doing it right? So please, none of this sexism talk.

I've said it before but I'll say it again and I'll give you a personal anecdote that should emphasize my point; women aren't interested in the video games because the community treats them like crap. Funny story, the first time I ever opened my mouth in tf2 and told my team to shut the f up about something completely irrelevant and defend the effing intelligence because I was a lone engineer fighting off uber heavies by myself I got cat-called by all my team mates who couldn't believe there was a GIRL in the game with them. That was way before the game was made ftp and no it wasn't on Xbox Live btw.

I don't really care about gender ratios as much as I care about having good GAMES, and 2012 has been an awesome year for gaming. Who gives a shit what gender the developers were? Do we care what RACE they were? Of course not, so why gender?

I care, because every woman making games and representing the industry (hopefully) means less of this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/jun/14/women-sexism-games-sarkeesian-tyler

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Exactly right, stand up and be a role model if you want to change things and have the power to do so, instead of complaining about them from behind your computer.

I hope things go well for her.

right.....

so that last game you didn't like, should you go become a game developer and make one better? should you invade the warehouses, wallmarts, and gamestops where its store and bomb them with self made explosives! do somthing about it rather thna complain behined a omptuer screen!

That escalated quickly O_O

I should have worded that a little better to be fair.

'stand up and be a role model if you want to change things and have the power to do so'

And for the record I give my opinions of games -good and bad- where it is appropriate, not just complain about the ones I don't like senselessly.

Also, here listen to this...

Spoiler

 

[m19]

Hopefully her prediction will come true. I think that one way to help with her goal is to smack Team Ninja upside the head because out of all the companies I've seen they are the worst when it comes to sexism. Honestly I'm still predicting that their next game with having breast with arms and legs that fight each other.

How about not smacking anyone? Make games you like, leave the games others like alone.

 

[Nieroshai]

Hopefully her prediction will come true. I think that one way to help with her goal is to smack Team Ninja upside the head because out of all the companies I've seen they are the worst when it comes to sexism. Honestly I'm still predicting that their next game with having breast with arms and legs that fight each other.

I'm going to use your post because it's a good springboard. Sexism is too deeply rooted in Japanese culture at large for this prediction to come true within 50 years let alone 20, but in Europe and the US I think 20 is a bit much. We've gotten very close to the point where sexism is a shocking rarity instead of any kind of norm, and people who grew up in the 50's (with Mom apron-bound in the kitchen) are still alive and even striving towards equality themselves. Sexism and even racism aren't dead yet, it's true, but today we consider them to be abhorrent and wrong. I'm convinced that forcing dev teams into the public eye will move them into the realm where sexism is outed and stamped out. Games are becoming more and more like movies, let's make devs stars.

 

[m19]

A sexual fantasy (weird or not) =/= sexism.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Women/girls aren't interested in game development as much as men. How the HELL is that "sexism"? Can someone please explain, or is this Kim Swift being delusional?

Women CAN make games. Men CAN become kindergarten teachers. Women CAN serve in the police. Men CAN become nurses. Just because the genders tend to sway towards certain professions over others, it's alright to call it sexism? The fuck?

To truly reinforce my point, look up the Norwegian Gender Equality Paradox. After looking it up, tell me with a straight face that women aren't interested in engineering/construction because of "sexism", and men aren't interested in becoming health nurses due to "sexism".

They are free to choose their profession, and nobody needs to roll out a red carpet for them and offer cookies & milk with gentle reassurances that everything will be alright just because their gender in general isn't interested in the profession.

Kim Swift is making it sound like women are weak and need help choosing their profession - no they don't, they're adults and can decide for themselves.

You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions in this argument here, the biggest of which is the idea that societal gender roles come about because of the differences between the genders, and nothing else.

 

[beefpelican]

I like this approach to combating prejudice. The best way to prove people wrong is with actions, not words.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Well, until women start taking the time and effort to earn degrees in programming, computer science, game design, animation etc. en masse there will be no change because they won't be in any position to have input on things that would result in change.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon. You're lucky if you get 3 or 4 females in a class of 300-500 students for those kinds of majors, and then maybe 2 of those will actually graduate.

 

[Blind Sight]

Well, until women start taking the time and effort to earn degrees in programming, computer science, game design, animation etc. en masse there will be no change because they won't be in any position to have input on things that would result in change.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon. You're lucky if you get 3 or 4 females in a class of 300-500 students for those kinds of majors, and then maybe 2 of those will actually graduate.

That's very much the real issue. As much as I don't have a problem with Ms. Swift's ideas, I don't think that the rally cry of 'Be visible. Be outspoken. Be strong. etc' will actually manifest in more (statistically meaningful, anecdotal cases are a clear possibility obviously) women pursuing computer science degrees. The rates of women going for these degrees have been constantly decreasing since the 80s and seem to be continuing along that trend. Yet statistically speaking women have been using information technology, particularly social media, at rates of consumption equal to or greater than men. In order to change the 'degree trend' there probably needs to be some shifts in education directed at women or changes in early childhood development. Of course, this is an endemic example of the larger trend in university degree breakdowns, where women are the majority in the fields of healthcare professionalism, education, psychology, sociology and communications but are the minority in fields like engineering, computer science, applied science, etc.

 

[The Lunatic]

I can only really talk about what I've experienced, but, going through the education of Game Design, I've found the following.

Four years ago, I entered College to study Game Design.

There were no females in this class.

Two years ago, I entered a University for The Art of Game Design.

20 Students total, 15 Males, 5 Females.

Last year, the intake was 10 Males, 10 Females.

Thus, I can conclude, that in 2 years time, nothing but females will be entering the Game Industry.