Pratchett Attacks Doctor Who

Feb 13, 2008
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God...I was nearly torn in half there...

Until I realised Sir Pratchett was talking about the RTD episodes (Smith and Jones,Starship Titanic)

So, we have Pratchett bashes RTD. Now that I can agree with.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Kouen said:
Ive not bothered with the rebooted series, I Used to watch the original series all the way to the end and that was it for me.
Do me a favour. Watch Blink (or The Empty Child if you don't like Tennant) and if you don't think it's as good as the originals, then I'll say no more.

Squid94 said:
For example:

Concerning the Weeping Angels, in the 'Blink' Episode, the Angels are made to freeze whenever the camera is on them, yet no characters are looking at them. Also, in that episode, it was never a problem to look an Angel in the eye. Also, when someone was 'killed' by them, anyone who knew them still had memory of them [Sparrow still remembered who that Officer fellow was].

In the latest ones, there were a few loopholes. Take, for instance, the moment where the Doctor is grabbed by his coat. Now, the camera turns to the Angels, who are frozen to stone, yet the Doctor isn't looking at them.

Now, if there are reasons for all this, then I'm happy to be stood corrected,
Right. In Flesh and Stone, it does state that the Angels don't have to turn to stone, it's just a defence mechanism when they think someone's watching them. So they may still be stone even when someone's not watching them. (The old trick in Blink is like sticking a mirror in front of a swamp dragon)

The "eye" trick only came from the progenitor Angel that the Bishop's were chasing. The one's in Blink were scavengers, not warriors. That's why they time-rip people instead of absorbing their cortexes and snapping their necks.

The memory wiping was caused from the time-spillage (which conveniently also erases the stupid Cyberman attacking London plot from Xmas)

You can see the stone change is subconscious defence when Amy is walking through them.

Any more questions? ;)
 

geldonyetich

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Popular media sucks.

It's developed for the lowest common denominator under the pretense that they make up the majority, and are too stupid to do anything other than be dazzled by pretty lights.

It's sort of pointless to point it out anymore.
 

veloper

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Acidwell said:
veloper said:
Doctor who is science fiction, it has other planets, aliens, space-ships and advanced technology. A basis in science fact or hypothesis is not what makes something science fiction because then you wouldn't count the work of H.G. Wells or Philip K. Dick as science fiction even though they are widely recognised as being some of the leading writers in the genre. A basis in fact only determines if it is hard or soft sf.
No, H.G. Wells based his sci-fi novels on the backward scientific theories of his time (like space travel by cannon) and you cannot accuse blade runner of being inconsistent or too far-fetched.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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Kmadden2004 said:
It sounds like his gripes are more with the Russel T Davies era of Doctor Who, and if that is the case then I agree with him. I can't even begin to describe how pissed off I was with the way the third season ended (the world enslaved, mankind decimated, Master triumphant, then -POP- all back to normal... I MEAN COME ON!!!)

However, I'm seeing a lot less of the 'magic wand' approach with Moffat's tenure (though it's still early days). All the outcomes have been properly set-up and seem perfectly logical within the context of the plot and series...
I'd agree with what you're saying. The way Russel T. Davies built up a massive and apocalyptic climax and then said "And no one remembered it afterwards" was a big problem. In Steven Moffat's new series, every episode so far has had a decent solution, even if there were a fair bunch of plotholes along the way. The amount of Deus Ex Machina Davies used in later series was the biggest problem with his writing.

PS. Terry Pratchett wins everything. Forever.
 

Booze Zombie

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Sci-fi, using elements of "science" we would call unrealistic?
I think that's why the "science" is "fictional"...
 

nightwolf667

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scotth266 said:
[HEADING=2]Hey, I have a cool idea: why don't people READ THE ENTIRE POST.[/HEADING]

Prachett says at the bottom that he still enjoys/watches Doctor Who. He just takes exception to the overuse of the Magic Wand approach in a Sci-Fi series. I believe that his point is that Doctor Who is a very "soft-sci" in its approach, and that he likes to see more "hard-sci" in his shows.

Are people not allowed to have an opinion anymore without being insulted?
You know, this exact same thing happened when the Escapist did that article on Richard K. Morgan and his interview titling it "Richard K. Morgan: Halo is Bullshit" except that the quote was an amalgamation of what he actually said "Halo is full of bullshit archetypal characters" and didn't bother to read the quote or even follow the link to the interview. They just assumed.

And no, judging by a lot of responses clearly they are not. :/ I'm starting to think people can't tell the difference between constructive criticism and bashing.
 

aiusepsi

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Sir Terrence is absolutely right. Doctor Who, at least under Russell T. Davies, pretty much did everything he could to downplay as many of the scientific aspects of it as possible.

For instance, for a show ostensibly about a time traveller, very few of his plots ever actually involved time travel as an integral element; time travel was just an excuse to set up a new location and scenario every week.

Also, the use of Deus Ex Machina was getting utterly ludicrous. Take, for instance, the way Davros' Daleks are defeated in "Journey's End": the fake half-human Doctor (a ludicrous creation in itself) flipped a few switches, and all the Daleks exploded. It just made no sense at all.

Most of his plots similarly fall apart under closer examination. Consider the magic gizmo that made the Cyberking disappear in the episode "The Next Doctor". Apparently it was stolen from the Daleks in the Void, and used to escape. Again, incredibly nonsensical; why didn't the Daleks use it to escape themselves? How could the Cybermen, who got whupped by the Daleks in the episode "Doomsday" manage to steal such a thing?

Hell, Steven Moffat even used "Flesh and Stone" to repair the continuity of "The Next Doctor" by using his cracks in time to explain why the existence of the Cyberking wasn't part of the historical record. This is the sort of important detail that was utterly glossed over in the RTD era.

Never mind that the way the Doctor and Rose were seperated was lifted directly from Phillip Pullman's "His Dark Materials", and RTD couldn't even steal properly; the whole poignancy of the moment in "His Dark Materials" is that for the good of all creation, the protagonists must seperate, and never see each other again. That was fatally undermined by just bringing Rose straight back.

Terry's right, examined critically, the craft of storytelling has been really badly mistreated on Doctor Who recently.
 

Axeli

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I like Doctor Who, but yes, it is pretty darned annoying how often the writers go with deus ex machina.

The season finishers are the worst offenders:
"Oh crap, this is even more impossible to survive than last year! However we stop from earth/universe from exploding in the next 10 minutes and how do we get rid of 20 billion Daleks in just two episodes?!"
*Deus ex machina*
"Oh."

I mean, honestly, why go out your way to drive the plot to a point where it seems utterly impossible for the good guys to win in the first place if you don't have a wittier way to untangle the story?
I understand why they like the whole "darkest hour" device, but can't they honestly do it without making the situation so impossible to solve with the tools already established, you know, instead of awfully convenient magical Dalek-sucking black holes?

I mean you got a fucking time machine, the ultimate big reset button. What's the point of denying Doctor from using that to solve anything on the grounds it would be too easy when you just use another deus ex machina anyway?

The problem isn't that the show strays too much into fantasy. The problem is that good fantasy doesn't use the genre as an excuse for asspulls.
 

Kouen

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Kouen said:
Ive not bothered with the rebooted series, I Used to watch the original series all the way to the end and that was it for me.
Do me a favour. Watch Blink (or The Empty Child if you don't like Tennant) and if you don't think it's as good as the originals, then I'll say no more.
I Assume you didn't mean Blinx lol



Lame Joke aside:
My problem is I have no legal way of watching it, and since Ive seen many posts on that episode here any effect would be lost on me I think sadly.
 

Paksenarrion

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Terry Pratchett has just successfully trolled this thread...and he didn't even know it.

SUCCESSFUL PRATCHETT IS SUCCESSFUL.
 

Red Wyvren

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the problem is not that dr who is unsientific. If we took that approach we would have to reject almost all sci-fi and definetly all superhero franchise.
No the problem is that dr who has stopped being plausible within its own boundaries. One minute we're told one thing, then dr who saves the day by contradicting himself completely and noone really argues because he's just saved the day.
This is a problem much more apparent in the last series and the new one than in the previous ones.
 

NickCooley

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I wouldn't say "Pratchett attacks Doctor Who", I'd say it's more like "Pratchett criticizes a series he quite likes". In fact I'm finding it difficult to see any attack at all. Which leads me to ask if most people even bother reading the OP.
 

Billion Backs

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NickCooley said:
I wouldn't say "Pratchett attacks Doctor Who", I'd say it's more like "Pratchett criticizes a series he quite likes". In fact I'm finding it difficult to see any attack at all. Which leads me to ask if most people even bother reading the OP.
See, clearly we're the bastion of intelligence among the vast unwashed fields of imbeciles on the internet!

And all of the posts in this thread involve thoughtful comments or discussion related to the opening post, the meat of this thread in this case. I mean, it's not like there are 2 camps of Terry Pratchett fanatics and Doctor Who fanatics, accompanied by people who don't know fuck about either, defending their fanboy realms from a phantom menace that only exists in their head.

Although I must agree, some blame should be going to the original poster. What the fuck is with such sensationalist title that hardly reflects reality? Is this Fox news? (that would be an oxymoron)
 

AboveUp

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Maraveno said:
Quaidis said:
Pratchet needs a hobby. Like collecting buttons. Give him something better to do than look for faults in a random television program.
You obviously have no idea who he is do you?

Also have you read the entire post?


Kudos to pratchett A great writer and a fair critic if he decides to be
You know, for someone getting so high and mighty towards another person... You really don't pay any attention to what he posted, did you?

Look at it again, it's a quote from Terry Pratchett himself. The guy is obviously a fan. Amazing how many of you keep missing that, because it was hilariously well played.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Kouen said:
Lame Joke aside:
My problem is I have no legal way of watching it, and since Ive seen many posts on that episode here any effect would be lost on me I think sadly.
Seriously? There's enough places (Libraries, LoveFilm, Blockbuster, Dave) where you can watch it legally, and I'd be inclined to say it will STILL be good.

That's how highly I recommend it.
 

silver wolf009

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PedroSteckecilo said:
Well, he's a little harsh but if anyone is allowed to rant at Dr. Who for it's storytelling, it's Terry Pratchett.

Doesn't mean I have to agree with him though, I've come to love the Makeitupasyougoalong'ness of Dr. Who.
i have yet to meet anyone other than Terry who hates the makeitupasyougoalong'ness of this show.