I am experiencing myself as I type this, and therefor know my own existence firsthand, and therefor needn't prove anything to you, because experience is 100% accurate (disbarring experiences filtered through erroneous memory).
Prove your existence.
- Thread starter krazykidd
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Way I see it, if it can't be proved definitively one way or the other, it's not worth worrying about. I mean you could be convinced that I'm just a computer program, or a figment of your imagination, but regardless of that possibility, I am here talking to you one way or another. You can't prove either option, so just treat people like they actually exist and don't bother worrying about questions that couldn't possibly enrich your life in any way.
Well, perhaps the most conclusive method of proof would, unfortunately, be no good to you.
The idea behind your argument is that the entire observed universe could exist only within your mind, and you wouldn't know the difference. This argument can be used by anyone, and if the existence of at least two observers could be verified then it falls flat... but there is no real way to do that without trusting the senses. However! There is one way to solve the connundrum from your point of view only, a bit of a Gordian Knot solution if you will. It's very simple.
I kill you.
At that point, if I keep existing and you stop thinking, then I have proved my existence. Unfortunately, I have done nothing to prove your existence to myself, and if you are still able to observe in any capacity (looking on from beyond the grave, etc) then the proof would do nothing... you could theoretically still be the only extant observer, still dreaming and only thinking you were dead due to my actions.
So basically, I could prove it, but I couldn't do so if you were still around to concede the argument. That would leave only my point of view, which would have learned nothing, and the numerous figments of my imagination that would quickly lock me up in a cell... perhaps one with padded walls... due to my own imagined concept of law. So let's not try it.
The idea behind your argument is that the entire observed universe could exist only within your mind, and you wouldn't know the difference. This argument can be used by anyone, and if the existence of at least two observers could be verified then it falls flat... but there is no real way to do that without trusting the senses. However! There is one way to solve the connundrum from your point of view only, a bit of a Gordian Knot solution if you will. It's very simple.
I kill you.
At that point, if I keep existing and you stop thinking, then I have proved my existence. Unfortunately, I have done nothing to prove your existence to myself, and if you are still able to observe in any capacity (looking on from beyond the grave, etc) then the proof would do nothing... you could theoretically still be the only extant observer, still dreaming and only thinking you were dead due to my actions.
So basically, I could prove it, but I couldn't do so if you were still around to concede the argument. That would leave only my point of view, which would have learned nothing, and the numerous figments of my imagination that would quickly lock me up in a cell... perhaps one with padded walls... due to my own imagined concept of law. So let's not try it.
You are incapable of simply imagining up a system as self consistent and yet completely irrational as human society, let alone the entire physical universe. You just don't have the raw intelligence. No one individual could.krazykidd said:
Unless you're God.
But you wouldn't actually be proving anything to him by killing him. Even if you're still alive after he's dead, according to everything he knows, you died with him because he now has no way of confirming whether or not you're still alive. All you've done is prove to an disinterested third party that you're not a figment of his imagination.Guardian of Nekops said:
OT:In the end, does it really matter if we truly exist or not? I know I'm having fun so if everything around me is just a figment of my imagination, what should I care?
