PS3 Cracked With Modded Controller

[Celtic_Kerr]

Sony just can't win. It's kind of funny.

I don't know, if you have to solder in PIC chips to the controller, that's kind of a win in itself. I mean I've seen system cracked witout opening the lid and looking inside, and now you have to crack the controller open. Honestlythe extent that modders have had to go to is simply hilarious when you think about it.

I think SONY deserves recognition and a nice big "WIN" plaque for that alone. God knows, they may yet find a way around this

 

[UberMore]

I don't remember signing a contract when I bought my laptop computer, or my Magic Bullet, or my Nintendo DS, and I doubt anyone who bought a PS3 will remember signing any contract either.

Modifying something without permission of the owner is illegal? Yeah, that makes sense. Modifying something without permission of the guy who sold it to you is illegal? Yeah...I don't think so.

Also, what about the Xbox Media Centre? Sure it was just a matter of unlocking already existent code, but it was still a mod.

Now, I agree it's wrong, this whole piracy thing, but it's certainly not illegal.

I'm reminded of certain states where the age of consent (for sex) is 18 and there are no closeness in age exemptions. Two 16 year olds have sex, they could be charged with raping each other. Unlikely that would happen, but the fact that they could be is disgusting.

The contract is made when purchasing anything. You agree to a user agreement the moment you give money for that product.

This is what I was taught. It might not apply anywhere else outside of the UK.

And I'm not sure why you started going on about rape, but that point is agreeable, it is disgusting. I live in a country where teenage pregnancy runs rampant and people are becoming grandparents at 28. The age of consent in the UK is 16, but few people stick to that as kids think "I'm only a year/2 years/3 years/4 years off, and what does it matter anyway, it's my choice!". But that's for another thread.

 

[edgeofblade]

"It wouldn't be all that surprising if it adopted a policy similar to that of Microsoft and banned any hacked PS3's it detected from going online."

I play with an XCM converter, and I'm not about to take my chances that it might still work. Therefore, I have no reason to install 3.5... and seeing how I'm not going online anyway, what's stopping me from modding my PS3?

If Sony had taken the plunge on banning modded consoles first, instead of pissing me off and putting me in this position, I wouldn't be contemplating the mod at all.

Way to go, Sony.

 

[oranger]

Well...there's a line between modifying your own property and infringing on copyright....unless you're modding your ps3, then there's no copying being done, sooo....what's the big deal here?
Both groups (sony and the hackers) are within their rights here.

Hackers are really not within their rights. Hacking a PS3 has NOTHING to do with copyright, but it is tampering with a registered and protected product, modifying without the patentee's consent.
It's highly illegal, and if they bother taking it to court, Sony'll win so fast that the hacker'll wish they'd just got a sunday job and saved up £300, instead of the thousands the court fees'll cost.

Silly, that's where the laws of sale come into play. As in, the product was never licensed/rented in the first place, it was sold. So it belongs to me. there are no "protections" for things that you sell, as it no longer belongs to you.
Patent has to do with reproduction and credit for invention (and of course the ridiculous notion of the ownership of ideas...).

 

[FBPH]

Well...there's a line between modifying your own property and infringing on copyright....unless you're modding your ps3, then there's no copying being done, sooo....what's the big deal here?
Both groups (sony and the hackers) are within their rights here.

Hackers are really not within their rights. Hacking a PS3 has NOTHING to do with copyright, but it is tampering with a registered and protected product, modifying without the patentee's consent.
It's highly illegal, and if they bother taking it to court, Sony'll win so fast that the hacker'll wish they'd just got a sunday job and saved up £300, instead of the thousands the court fees'll cost.

Its not illegal (in the US), the new DMCA ruling by the Supreme Court gives consumers complete ownership of their electronic purchases. So if they want to mod the crap out of it, its perfectly fine so long as they paid for it. Pirating games however, is highly illegal.

And last time checked, the courts are still up in the air about whether or not the EULAs should be enforced the same as other legal contracts. Different courts always have different rulings.

 

[oranger]

I don't remember signing a contract when I bought my laptop computer, or my Magic Bullet, or my Nintendo DS, and I doubt anyone who bought a PS3 will remember signing any contract either.

Modifying something without permission of the owner is illegal? Yeah, that makes sense. Modifying something without permission of the guy who sold it to you is illegal? Yeah...I don't think so.

Also, what about the Xbox Media Centre? Sure it was just a matter of unlocking already existent code, but it was still a mod.

Now, I agree it's wrong, this whole piracy thing, but it's certainly not illegal.

I'm reminded of certain states where the age of consent (for sex) is 18 and there are no closeness in age exemptions. Two 16 year olds have sex, they could be charged with raping each other. Unlikely that would happen, but the fact that they could be is disgusting.

The contract is made when purchasing anything. You agree to a user agreement the moment you give money for that product.

This is what I was taught. It might not apply anywhere else outside of the UK.

And I'm not sure why you started going on about rape, but that point is agreeable, it is disgusting. I live in a country where teenage pregnancy runs rampant and people are becoming grandparents at 28. The age of consent in the UK is 16, but few people stick to that as kids think "I'm only a year/2 years/3 years/4 years off, and what does it matter anyway, it's my choice!". But that's for another thread.

Well, here in Canada it is -illegal- to bind someone to a contract without prior consent.

"The contract is made when purchasing anything. You agree to a user agreement the moment you give money for that product." This would constitute a binding agreement without consent here.
I also have a hard time believing that the UK does this....but I'm not on the up and up with UK law.

 

[oranger]

Sony just can't win. It's kind of funny.

I don't know, if you have to solder in PIC chips to the controller, that's kind of a win in itself. I mean I've seen system cracked witout opening the lid and looking inside, and now you have to crack the controller open. Honestlythe extent that modders have had to go to is simply hilarious when you think about it.

I think SONY deserves recognition and a nice big "WIN" plaque for that alone. God knows, they may yet find a way around this

Oh "they" have. There are modded firmware updates already available...the modded versions a re a few "levels" behind, but still, its coming along nicely.
But you're right, forcing the modding community to solder stuff is a big deal. Even if it didn't last.

 

[Ghengis John]

What a brave guy, opening up a controller like that. Doesn't he know how dangerous those things are? I hear from Sony they explode all the time.

 

[aseelt]

Holy crap! This is exactly how Critical Miss said it would be!

 

[poiuppx]

So... now to even hack a PS3 properly, you need thorough-enough knowledge about the internal workings of the controller to disassemble, alter, and reassemble the unit?

...call me nuts, but I think Sony won. When it's that much trouble to use the hack, only the most fringe of folks will attempt it, and half of them at least will screw it up and just end up with a non-functional controller.

 

[TimeLord]

Why doesn't Sony just employ these hackers to work for them?

 

[Jumplion]

Has any court actually supported the legality of EULAs? From what I hear they haven't. Just because you say something is legally binding doesn't mean it is.

Now, as for terms of service. I thought we were talking about hardware. What service? The online service? Well then if they don't sign up for the online service then you have nothing.

I dunno, I heard that the courts do support EULAs, but hell if I know. My main point was just that you still "sign" a contract, it's just that nobody reads the damn things as it does state that you can't tamper with their hardware without permission (for example, changing harddrives is permissible, but modding the PS3 to play N64 games is not, I guess).

Snip

I wasn't really trying to stir things up, though on reflection I probably should have put a bit more forethought in my post. I was just being a layman, stating that you do sign stuff when the OP said "I don't recall signing anything!"

I'm not really trying to get into a debate over what is and isn't ethical in modding or whatever, but regardless of all of that I still firmly believe that hackers only make it worse for the legitimate customers. There may be some "legit" hackers out there who do nothing more than change up a controller, but as far as Sony (or any other business for that matter) there isn't really a difference between them.

 

[BlackWidower]

Has any court actually supported the legality of EULAs? From what I hear they haven't. Just because you say something is legally binding doesn't mean it is.

Now, as for terms of service. I thought we were talking about hardware. What service? The online service? Well then if they don't sign up for the online service then you have nothing.

I dunno, I heard that the courts do support EULAs, but hell if I know. My main point was just that you still "sign" a contract, it's just that nobody reads the damn things as it does state that you can't tamper with their hardware without permission (for example, changing harddrives is permissible, but modding the PS3 to play N64 games is not, I guess).

Snip

I wasn't really trying to stir things up, though on reflection I probably should have put a bit more forethought in my post. I was just being a layman, stating that you do sign stuff when the OP said "I don't recall signing anything!"

I'm not really trying to get into a debate over what is and isn't ethical in modding or whatever, but regardless of all of that I still firmly believe that hackers only make it worse for the legitimate customers. There may be some "legit" hackers out there who do nothing more than change up a controller, but as far as Sony (or any other business for that matter) there isn't really a difference between them.

Okay, first off, what the fuck is an OP? Are you calling me a narc?

Secondly, I believe those agreements you speak of only apply to the warranty. You can't modify the hardware without permission, if you do, the warranty is void. That is all, they don't arrest you.

I could look at the documentation that came with my DS, but other than the terms of warranty I don't think there are any agreements or EULAs that came with it.

 

[BlackWidower]

I don't remember signing a contract when I bought my laptop computer, or my Magic Bullet, or my Nintendo DS, and I doubt anyone who bought a PS3 will remember signing any contract either.

Modifying something without permission of the owner is illegal? Yeah, that makes sense. Modifying something without permission of the guy who sold it to you is illegal? Yeah...I don't think so.

Also, what about the Xbox Media Centre? Sure it was just a matter of unlocking already existent code, but it was still a mod.

Now, I agree it's wrong, this whole piracy thing, but it's certainly not illegal.

I'm reminded of certain states where the age of consent (for sex) is 18 and there are no closeness in age exemptions. Two 16 year olds have sex, they could be charged with raping each other. Unlikely that would happen, but the fact that they could be is disgusting.

The contract is made when purchasing anything. You agree to a user agreement the moment you give money for that product.

This is what I was taught. It might not apply anywhere else outside of the UK.

And I'm not sure why you started going on about rape, but that point is agreeable, it is disgusting. I live in a country where teenage pregnancy runs rampant and people are becoming grandparents at 28. The age of consent in the UK is 16, but few people stick to that as kids think "I'm only a year/2 years/3 years/4 years off, and what does it matter anyway, it's my choice!". But that's for another thread.

Here's the thing, even if there is a contract somewhere, doesn't mean it's legally binding. It has to be tested in court.

Now as for my comment on rape. My point was that it's not morally wrong, but it is considered illegal, even if it's unlikely they will get prosecuted. The same is true for those mods I mentioned earlier. Not morally wrong, considered illegal, unlikely to prosecuted regardless. It doesn't matter! It's still bullshit!

 

[BlackWidower]

I don't remember signing a contract when I bought my laptop computer, or my Magic Bullet, or my Nintendo DS, and I doubt anyone who bought a PS3 will remember signing any contract either.

Modifying something without permission of the owner is illegal? Yeah, that makes sense. Modifying something without permission of the guy who sold it to you is illegal? Yeah...I don't think so.

Also, what about the Xbox Media Centre? Sure it was just a matter of unlocking already existent code, but it was still a mod.

Now, I agree it's wrong, this whole piracy thing, but it's certainly not illegal.

I'm reminded of certain states where the age of consent (for sex) is 18 and there are no closeness in age exemptions. Two 16 year olds have sex, they could be charged with raping each other. Unlikely that would happen, but the fact that they could be is disgusting.

Its in the terms and conditions of sale, just because you haven't read them doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Contracts don't have to be signed to exist either, they can equally be verbal or implied. Every time you buy something from a shop you are entering into an implied contract with the vendor, him to supply fault free goods and you provide a monetary sum. At no point do you sign or agree to anything about the existence of the contract but it is the bases if consumer rights in the Anglo Saxon legal system (i.e about 1/3 of the population of the world). Also most jurisdictions these days have clauses in copyright legislation stating that state removing copy protection, for what ever reason, is a volition of copyright.

Just because they say it's legal, doesn't mean it is, it has to be tested in court. Also, I don't remember seeing anything on the box of my Nintendo DS that said I can't modify it. I could check again. But I doubt it.

I honestly think you are confusing the terms of warranty with a legal contract. The worst they can do in response to you violating it is deny you warranty coverage. Not arrest you.

Now, you say most jurisdictions say circumvention of digital locks is illegal. Could you name a few, you know, other than the US, because they're the only one I know of. I know that's not the case in Canada, where I live.

 

[Jumplion]

Okay, first off, what the fuck is an OP? Are you calling me a narc?

OP = Original Poster

I could look at the documentation that came with my DS, but other than the terms of warranty I don't think there are any agreements or EULAs that came with it.

I think there might be, somewhere in the back of the manual that came with it. I'd look it up myself if I wasn't a lazy bastard. Overall, I was just saying that you do sign/agree to a contract of some sort, I wasn't really trying to debate whether it's binding or not. Again, in retrospect, I probably should have put more thought into my post.

 

[Ubermetalhed]

ARMS WAR. DO EET!!

 

[teh_Canape]

Wait for the ATI HD 6xxx series and then buy it.

woo late replies for dah ween

now, on a serious part, in order to get that video card, I'd have to buy a new power source or whatever you fancy 1st world-ers call it, and it would be expensive both the card and the power thingy, actually, it would be the exact same price of an old fatass ps3 model (which is the one I'm looking for) and my actual pc is somewhat enhanced to work with nVidia video cards and Intel processors, I already tried other AMD processors and other video cards, and none worked properly or at all =P

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

I blame carter and Cory for this one:

Spoiler

The floodgates have pretty much opened for this one.