PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[Logic 0]

Eiether way this seems like it's going to be making history when this case goes through.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

If I want to fuck my gun (after I buy it) I will! If I want to take it apart or modify it, I will! If I want to take apart my PC or modify it in some way to make it better, I will!

Uhuh...And if you want to shoot someone with it or shoot it in public are you allowed to? Don't use inane examples.

No of course not, but that's WAY different

Cuz u say so? LAD
How about a mature, logical argument?

I'm saying guns and PS3s are WAY different, but in a perfect world, you'd be allowed to do anything....actually now that I think more about it, there is a world out there (universe?) that you can do anything, go figure

Hate to break it to you but that's not how science, or the law, works =p

I'm sorry if your mind can't comprehend multiple universes....or just other galaxies in general. I'm just gonna stop talking to you now before before....something bad happens (I had something for this)

 

[Korten12]

I do truly hope he loses, maybe they could mka eit so then he can't buy any more video game products? That would be cool.

 

[CD-R]

And to think. All of this probably could have been avoided if Sony just kept the other OS feature.

 

[Digitaldreamer7]

What he is doing is not illegal or wrong in any way. The only things Sony can do are ban the modified consoles from PSN and void any warranty that's left. Period. That's it. This shouldn't even be going to court. The judge should have said "Hey, Sony, Sorry but he owns the hardware, he can do whatever he wants with it. As long as he's not pirating games then you have no case."

People seem to be confusing the meaning of "hacking" within the modification community with the pop-culture perception of it. The modification community still uses the term "hacking" as it was originally conceived- that is, the modification of a device or software to provide different functionality that its original construction. Pop-culture uses "hacking" to mean malicious activity using computers, such as outright hostile activities like DOS attacks; or in the case of games- cheating.

To understand what "hacking" in it's most simple, benign sense, look at a book like Sneaky Uses for Everyday Things. Any time you use something for a purpose other than the one it was intended for, you could consider that "hacking".

It also seems that several people are missing the legal argument here. Nobody is disputing that Sony owns the copyright to the PS3 name, software or hardware. All those things have to do with protecting Sony from market competition. Those are the things in place that prevent another company from selling PS3s. Microsoft, for example, could not buy a PS3, reverse engineer it, and sell a Microsoft brand PS3. But that has nothing to do with the use of the console after it has been purchased.

Sony does not own my PS3 console because I purchased it from them and in their selling the product to me a legal transfer of ownership occurred. They are not legally permitted to come to my house and take it from me. They are not legally permitted to tell me when I can or can not play it, or what I can play or watch on it, because it is my machine. In this same vein, I am legally allowed to make any modification to it I want because it is no longer Sony's property. If I open the case and start fiddling with the hardware, then of course I'm voiding Sony's warranty. But that means they stop providing me warranty service because it's no longer the "device they sold me", it's an altered device and they may or may not know how to fix once I have tampered with it.

Sony provides a service- by way of the PlayStation Network- that continually updates software and firmware on the PS3. When I log on for the latest update, I give my consent for Sony to update that software/firmware, but I still retain absolute authority over my console. So if I don't want to let my software/firmware be updated by Sony, then I wouldn't have to. If their update would do something that I didn't like, such as removing otherOS support, then I wouldn't have to download that update. I have the legal right to opt-out of (violate) any ToS and EULA as long as I no longer wish to have access to those services.

Likewise, Sony also has the legal right to opt-out. If I were to do something with my PS3 that breached the ToS or EULA that Sony set forth, such as what GeoHotz did with the rootkey, then Sony has every right to stop supporting the device; ban me from PSN; stop providing whatever service whose Term of Service I violated.

Sony, however, does not have the legal authority to restrict my ability to do whatever the hell I want with my PS3. That's GeoHotz's argument. He doesn't mind being denied access to Sony's PSN because a) it seems he doesn't use it and b) he would rather expand the capabilities of his system further than Sony's endorsed support allows. Sony is perfectly within their rights to deny him access to whichever of their services they want, but they have no legal standing to prevent the modification of GeoHotz's personal PS3 console or anyone else's.

The legal argument that an owner of a piece of property should be allowed to modify that piece of property is entirely sound. You can argue about whether or not it's a "good idea" for GeoHotz to be providing the hack to the public and the possible consequences thereof. But it's not illegal. If the modification is used to cause a crime, then it is the fault of the person committing the crime, not the creator of the modification. This is not Minority Report: crimes are only crimes if they're actually committed. The potential ability to commit a crime is not a crime. If someone pirates a game using this modification, then the crime is the piracy, not the ability to commit piracy.

this really should be the end of the thread. This person sums it up better then anyone yet.

 

[FoolKiller]

I've always had something against EULAs because the assumption is that you read and agreed to the terms. What if you're illiterate? You could just click 'I agree' and not ever know what it said.

The other problem I have is the fact that the PS3 has been taking back all the features that it started out with. It makes me laugh every time I see the commercial that PS3 does everything.

 

[sleeky01]

You act as if there's nothing you can do about hackers.
Take a look at PC gaming. And no, DRM has nothing to do with preventing online hacking.

Of course there are things that you can do. It's just harder on PS3 than for example Xbox where Microsoft just banns the Xbox from Live connection if they notice hacking or a pirated game. As I said PSN doesn't know the difference so Sony has no clue who has pirated the game and who hasn't.

That sounds like a failing of PSN. Perhaps if Sony invested some of that nearly Billion dollar profit from last year [http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/29/sony-posts-852m-profit-ps3-pc-sales-up/] toward improving the PSN network.... Oh who am I kidding?

 

[VGC USpartan VS]

I don't get the problem here. This guy wasn't screwing with the online, he was playing like SUper Mario Bros and stuff on his PS3. Best of wishes for Geohot.

 

[infohippie]

This is good news. I fully support Geohot and hope he resoundingly defeats Sony in court. This has nothing to do with piracy or cheating online. This is all about being able to do what you want with your own hardware that you paid for.
I think it's downright ridiculous that big corps think they can "license" their stuff to you under changeable terms so they don't have to allow you the rights that would attach if you were "sold" the stuff. This kind of thinking needs to be defeated in the courts over and over again until corporations get the message - we will not accept the terms they seek to unilaterally impose.
Of course, I would not shed a tear if Sony did throw a tantrum and shut down all their services. It's not gonna happen, but if it did, well, that's just more developers available to write stuff for PC.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Question here.

Has anyone ever solved the Xbox 360 rootkey?

 

[VGC USpartan VS]

If Sony wins, EULAs get to be hardcore enforced.

If Geohot wins, I think we can say goodbye to most non-portable consoles, eventually.

I honestly think that GeoHot should win. Why? Because then Console makers will be forced to work like VALVe and actually work with their respective communities.

If Sony wins, it may be the beginning of the end for video games.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Power to the guy

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

I'm in full support of him. I mod my Nintendo Wii so I can run whatever OS I want because I paid for the console, I paid the tax for it It's my property and I'll do whatever the damn hell I want with it, including installing an OS, hardware boosters etc.

 

[Something Amyss]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Uh, no they have no right to be playing SMAS on their PS3. No matter if the game is fun, they pirated the game and hacked the console? Thats like double the offense.

If someone pirates a game and says they're having "fun" doesn't suddenly pardon them.

"Hacking" the console isn't automatically illegal. Even with the DMCA in place there's plenty of precedent for things like jailbreaking. It's not "double the offense," it's a single offense. One Sony has no right or recourse to deal with, which is why they're not alleging piracy in Geohot's case.

The best they can do in this case is argue EULA violations and that only goes so far because EULAs are not legally binding and cannot bypass certain rights. The end result is Sony really doesn't want this case to go to court, because the ruling coudl be a serious smack to them.

The game is so old now though, if you bought it at a pawn shop the only one getting money would be the pawn store owner, the companies would no longer be getting the money 9I mean, that's the problem isn't it? With piracy for new things, the creators, like apple or microsoft, or Gearbox or whoever don't get their money?) and they bought it so I think they have every right to hack their PS3, also Hack is such a strong word, like rats, or ****

Yeah, if only there were some new version of SMAS, say released for a contemporary console, one that someone could legally purchase and use.

The argument that it's an old game is kind of silly because there's a contemporary Wii version and Nintendo's still making money off it. The assumption of a lost sale is kind of a silly one, but if you're going to apply it to new releases, you should also apply it to old titles the companies are still milking. Not to mention, Nintendo has made available several of the individual titles for release in multiple formats they're still making money off of.

Why is Nintendo less deserving to make money off this product than Gearbox or Microsoft again?

 

[Kadoodle]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Yeah? Well I honestly don't want hackers fucking up my console. I spent 320 dollars, and the last thing I want is for some dick to come and screw up my multi-player experience.

Homebrew is a good thing, but it's not worth the hacking.

I hope this guy loses, and I hope that Sony permabans any fool who hacks their system.

 

[linkblade91]

People abused their privileges, and for that such things are taken away.

*snip*

I guess the use of the word "privilege" was an inappropriate choice, and I see what you're saying.

In terms of the Other OS thing, Sony was providing us the opportunity to install operation systems beyond the one mandated by themselves. However, as a result of this "privilege" (I'm going to keep using the word, 'cause I cannot think of a better one at the moment), people abused this opportunity by exploiting the weaknesses in those alternative systems, hacking the Playstation for negative reasons, such as cheating or piracy. While emulation I can understand (given you already own the game, as I previously stated, because otherwise you are hurting the original makers regardless of system), or even homebrewing, the above actions I cannot condone and neither did Sony. Because of the (not so) few bad-apples, the "privilege" of having Other OS was taken from all of us.

The example of Other OS highlights what I meant; the problem doesn't come from all hackers and the like. But when the few take advantage of the system and abuse it, everyone loses, and that's what is happening. Sony is just trying to protect itself, but in doing so is creating collateral damage in blanket-sweeping everyone who is associated with homebrew/hacking/emulation/etc., rather than decisively taking out the truly illegal goings-on. Unfortunate, but it's out of self-defense, I guess.

Sorry if my failure to elaborate created a misunderstanding or anything like that

 

[seditary]

I wouldn't be that surprised to see Sony drop the suit now that George can mount a defense. I reckon they just wanted to scare the guy off with threats of litigation and financial ruin but now he's got backing from the community I can't see this going well for Sony who don't have much of a leg to stand on legally speaking. Pretty much anyway this turns out now they went down this path will end up hurting Sony.

 

[sb666]

im on sonys side