PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[theriddlen]

Oh c'mon wake up! This is not about Sony or it's stupid console. It's about all of the modifications made to our own devices. I want to jailbreak my iPhone, because it's MY iPhone and i can do whatever i want with it. And that's the point of this case - whether person can modify his own devices he payed for, and has every right to use it.

 

[Callate]

There is, of course, nothing that keeps Sony from going after any of the people who post aids to actual software piracy. It's just that it becomes a far more decentralized effort. I sympathize that it may genuinely be their hope and intention to prevent piracy, but the way they're going about it, they've set themselves up for a fall.

From Sony's perspective, they've been manufacturing hardware at a loss for some time (a situation which may continue- I'm not aware) on the premise that they'll make back those costs on the software. This threatens that whether it's an aid to piracy or not- it means more people will be able to use the PS3 as, well, a computer. And spend more time on their PS3 doing things which don't reimburse Sony the costs of that hardware.

If the defense succeeds, which it may well, expect to see the price of the next generation of hardware go up to sustainable levels.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about this case. Geohot has some good points, and you can't just ignore the real principles at stake because it may lead to more piracy and more exploits. The courts pretty much already agreed as much when they took a look at the movie-copying capabilities of VCRs. The results of his success might, indeed, be catastrophic for the industry. But it may be a case of finally recognizing the decay that's been held up with duct tape and glue for some time.

 

[ragethebeast]

The problem here is EULA's are not legally binding. The fact that they claim you are agreeing to it simply by purchasing the product, before even getting a chance to read it, makes it invalid. Also, he has stated he does not use PSN, nor intends to, so therefore he is not held to the PSN Eula either. Contracts are only legally binding if both parties actually agree to them.

Hmm i'll look for a link but Blizzard sued a company 3 years ago for breach of EULA, what did they do they made a bot.

the bot on its own is technically legal (just like people claiming that what he did is legal)

The bot was then used in a way that was against the EULA (it was turned into a gold farm bot)

Ippso facto i think sony will win this and i hope they do. It would be one thing for this insinificant little twit to say yeah i know the rootkey... but when you release it to the public thats when i say it crosses the line.

I would be most interested to see this link. I am very interested in how the courts handled this case.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/10/01/blizzard-awarded-large-payout-in-wow-glider-case/ it has links to a few others inside of its report, i couldn't find anything more exclusively detailed however

 

[RoBi3.0]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

But it is not against the law to take the same gun, make a custom stock for it, modify it to accept different clip sizes, etc. And again, we are not talking about using the item to commit a crime, but rather the legal right of the consumer to purchase an item and make modifications to it for their own personal use. Sony is not suing GeoHot for pirating, they are suing him for modding his console and showing others how it can be done.

It is my understanding that the gay wasn't simple attaching a inter-cooler to his PS3 or changing the color of the LED lights or adding extra USB ports.

I believe what pissed Sony off was that this guy publish the PS3 RootKey or whatever it called, that would allow people to play any pirated game on the PS3. That is the problem.

Come on that is like throwing a bunch keys to the local Gamestop into a crowd of people, then yelling "theses are the keys to the local gamestop, but I do not condone the thief of any games that may result from me giving you the keys." Then explaining to everyone how to use those keys in such away to insure that they wont get caught stealing games.

 

[MattAn24]

Right, fuck it, I'm out.

And for the sake of avoind a low-content post: You're acting like a mob armed with torches and pitchforks and spouting ludirous comments at someone that, for all intents and purposes, has done nothing illegal. You're angry and mad so coming up with any stupid justification about cars and guns just to try to scrape a point together.

Console modding stores/products have been BANNED in Australia for a very logical reason. It changes what the console was DESIGNED for. "Super Mario" is not owned by Sony, it's owned by Nintendo. Therefore, playing a Nintendo game on a Sony product is.. Well.. It's definitely illegal. That's a completely different court case.

The fact is, "GeoHot" knowingly RELEASED THE INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC. He opened the flood-gates. He deserves every single bit of the law thrown at him.

Hell, the only thing that's stopped me from purchasing a PS3 recently is the lack of backwards compatibility for PS2 games (yet it plays PS1 games just fine!) Now, although I may find such a thing incredibly stupid, that's the design of the console.

PCSX2 is a well-known PS2 emulator for the PC. It is made abundantly clear that it is only to be used with YOUR OWN PS2 BIOS AND YOUR LEGAL COPY OF GAMES. I legitimately own PAL versions of Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XII. I'd like to be able to play them while traveling, so being able to play them on a laptop or whatever is rather awesome. It's not hacking, it's not "doing something that the console normally wouldn't do". It's proper PS2 emulation, using the actual Emotion Engine, which is basically run from a computer. Hence "Sony PlayStation Computer Entertainment System". I'm not modifying anything or changing how the game is intended to be played.

As a poster above clearly showed in Sony's Terms of Service, a legal document that everyone has to agree to before even starting their console. It states that the console must NEVER be modified from its intended use.

It infuriates me when countless PSP forum members brag about using custom firmware and viciously insult and laugh at anyone who claims to use the official firmware updates. Custom firmware RUINED the PSP, because it suddenly made unintended things possible. Really, the ONLY remotely cool thing the CFW does is allow snazzy-looking menus rather than the PSP's XMB layout. I still use the OFW.

I'm fairly certain that the PSP2 (Sony NGP) will be designed so it CAN'T be modified.

"GeoHot" is no hero or saint. "Hacking" is illegal, no matter what form it's in. I firmly believe "Anonymous" needs to die in a fire as well. They honestly believe they're "fighting for the common citizen", but they're attacking and hunting people down. Anonymously. Average civilians. That shit just ain't right.

 

[Bran1470]

well i guess im not going to be able to enjoy online gaming on my ps3 any more guess i gotta buy an xbox now.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Good. There's a difference between fighting piracy and fighting hackers. Hackers are well within their rights to alter the system however they want and coporations shouldn't be allowed to say they can't. If I can install a new OS or change my computer however I want, people should be allowed to do the same for consoles.

I'll be monitoring how this case goes, with a hope that Sony loses.

 

[Xanthious]

If you weren't discriminating to who you showed that information, yes, you are in the wrong, just as not everyone can be sold a gun for the same reason.

There is a book out there called the Anarchist's Cookbook that shows people how to do a wide array of blantantly illegal things from making explosives, to counterfeiting money, to making fake ids, to god knows what else. This book is available in most libraries and bookstores. Anyone who wishes to can buy it or check it out rather easily. Hell, I checked it out of our library when I was in junior high school. I can promise you if I would of went and put this new found knowledge to use that I alone, not the author or the library or anyone else, would of been the only one responsible for my actions. Furthermore, I can go online and find multiple perfectly legal websites describing how to make meth, grow pot, make mail bombs, smuggle drugs, etc. My point is, that showing people how to do something, just because it might be illegal is NOT an illegal act.

What Geohot is teaching people isn't even an illegal act, it simply makes a select few illegal acts easier. If anyone chooses to do illegal things with the information then the responsibility is theirs and theirs alone and Sony should pursue those people.

 

[Sylveria]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Uh, no they have no right to be playing SMAS on their PS3. No matter if the game is fun, they pirated the game and hacked the console? Thats like double the offense.

If someone pirates a game and says they're having "fun" doesn't suddenly pardon them.

The game is so old now though, if you bought it at a pawn shop the only one getting money would be the pawn store owner, the companies would no longer be getting the money 9I mean, that's the problem isn't it? With piracy for new things, the creators, like apple or microsoft, or Gearbox or whoever don't get their money?) and they bought it so I think they have every right to hack their PS3, also Hack is such a strong word, like rats, or ****

Alright, well I guess it will suck once they close down PSN due to too many pirates and hackers. But hey, they're having fun and they bought their ps3 so it should be perfectly fine...

Yes! Guilty until proven innocent! Not that you need proof but I'm sure you have piles that demonstrates those people pirated the game. Regardless, because some people may pirate stuff, everyone must restricted and monitored. We have to be sure we know who all the pirates are to. I suggest forcing them to wear a yellow star on their clothing and sending them to internment camps so we can be sure they wont do anything that may harm the producers.

And yeah it'll be sad when the PSN gets turned off. I mean, the Apple App store barely has anything anymore since people learned how to jailbreak their iPhones.

 

[Kawika]

Good luck to him. If he loses, it might not look good for the rest of us.

 

[dragontiers]

Even though he has aided people to play pirated games on the PS3? That pretty much makes him the accomplice to every person that pirates a game.

As I said in a previous post, if I show you how to install a custom steering wheel in your car, am I suddenly responsible for everyone who hot-wires a car? No. Just because the information can be abused, doesn't mean I am responsible for someone who does abuse it. Might as well blame Sony for pirating simply because they make games that can be pirated.

The games weren't able to be pirated until the code was leaked....Flawed argument.
If you weren't discriminating to who you showed that information, yes, you are in the wrong, just as not everyone can be sold a gun for the same reason.
He needs to man up and take responsibility. He knew what he was doing would allow people to pirate games. He is simply pussying out of that responsibility.

I hate to break it to you, but yes, games were pirated before this information was printed. Additionally, for your "responsiblity" argument, there is a series of books called The Poor Man's James Bond. These books are filled with ways to make home made explosives, and other weapons. They are 100% legal to sell and purchase, and the person selling/publishing them has no legal responsibility to someone who uses this information for any illegal purposes. If you teach a martial arts class, you are not responsible if someone gets in a fight and uses the techniques you taught to injure someone else. By telling you how to do something, I am not giving you the right to do it, just information on how it is done.

 

[dragontiers]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

But it is not against the law to take the same gun, make a custom stock for it, modify it to accept different clip sizes, etc. And again, we are not talking about using the item to commit a crime, but rather the legal right of the consumer to purchase an item and make modifications to it for their own personal use. Sony is not suing GeoHot for pirating, they are suing him for modding his console and showing others how it can be done.

It is my understanding that the gay wasn't simple attaching a inter-cooler to his PS3 or changing the color of the LED lights or adding extra USB ports.

I believe what pissed Sony off was that this guy publish the PS3 RootKey or whatever it called, that would allow people to play any pirated game on the PS3. That is the problem.

Come on that is like throwing a bunch keys to the local Gamestop into a crowd of people, then yelling "theses are the keys to the local gamestop, but I do not condone the thief of any games that may result from me giving you the keys." Then explaining to everyone how to use those keys in such away to insure that they wont get caught stealing games.

Actually, it is more like showing people how to make their own keys from a simple key mold. If someone then gets a hold of Gamestop's keys and copies them, do you blame the local locksmith, or the guy who broke in?

 

[dragontiers]

The problem here is EULA's are not legally binding. The fact that they claim you are agreeing to it simply by purchasing the product, before even getting a chance to read it, makes it invalid. Also, he has stated he does not use PSN, nor intends to, so therefore he is not held to the PSN Eula either. Contracts are only legally binding if both parties actually agree to them.

Hmm i'll look for a link but Blizzard sued a company 3 years ago for breach of EULA, what did they do they made a bot.

the bot on its own is technically legal (just like people claiming that what he did is legal)

The bot was then used in a way that was against the EULA (it was turned into a gold farm bot)

Ippso facto i think sony will win this and i hope they do. It would be one thing for this insinificant little twit to say yeah i know the rootkey... but when you release it to the public thats when i say it crosses the line.

I would be most interested to see this link. I am very interested in how the courts handled this case.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/10/01/blizzard-awarded-large-payout-in-wow-glider-case/ it has links to a few others inside of its report, i couldn't find anything more exclusively detailed however

It appears to me (although there is sparse information in the article for me to be sure) that they won their case because they sold the product. If they had kept it for personal use, or just made a video showing how to make your own bot, I don't think they would have had any legal trouble.

 

[RoBi3.0]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Uh, no they have no right to be playing SMAS on their PS3. No matter if the game is fun, they pirated the game and hacked the console? Thats like double the offense.

If someone pirates a game and says they're having "fun" doesn't suddenly pardon them.

The game is so old now though, if you bought it at a pawn shop the only one getting money would be the pawn store owner, the companies would no longer be getting the money 9I mean, that's the problem isn't it? With piracy for new things, the creators, like apple or microsoft, or Gearbox or whoever don't get their money?) and they bought it so I think they have every right to hack their PS3, also Hack is such a strong word, like rats, or ****

Alright, well I guess it will suck once they close down PSN due to too many pirates and hackers. But hey, they're having fun and they bought their ps3 so it should be perfectly fine...

Yes! Guilty until proven innocent! Not that you need proof but I'm sure you have piles that demonstrates those people pirated the game. Regardless, because some people may pirate stuff, everyone must restricted and monitored. We have to be sure we know who all the pirates are to. I suggest forcing them to wear a yellow star on their clothing and sending them to internment camps so we can be sure they wont do anything that may harm the producers.

And yeah it'll be sad when the PSN gets turned off. I mean, the Apple App store barely has anything anymore since people learned how to jailbreak their iPhones.

Wow just wow, I am sure their are Holocaust victims turning over in their graves right now knowing that their sorrow is being used mockingly to defend thieves.

If someone pirates a game I suggest we mark them with orange jump suits then send them to jail just like we would anyone else that steals.

Obviously the above is the extreme and not all acts of piracy, just like thief, will not warrant orange jumpsuits and jail time.

 

[RoBi3.0]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

But it is not against the law to take the same gun, make a custom stock for it, modify it to accept different clip sizes, etc. And again, we are not talking about using the item to commit a crime, but rather the legal right of the consumer to purchase an item and make modifications to it for their own personal use. Sony is not suing GeoHot for pirating, they are suing him for modding his console and showing others how it can be done.

It is my understanding that the gay wasn't simple attaching a inter-cooler to his PS3 or changing the color of the LED lights or adding extra USB ports.

I believe what pissed Sony off was that this guy publish the PS3 RootKey or whatever it called, that would allow people to play any pirated game on the PS3. That is the problem.

Come on that is like throwing a bunch keys to the local Gamestop into a crowd of people, then yelling "theses are the keys to the local gamestop, but I do not condone the thief of any games that may result from me giving you the keys." Then explaining to everyone how to use those keys in such away to insure that they wont get caught stealing games.

Actually, it is more like showing people how to make their own keys from a simple key mold. If someone then gets a hold of Gamestop's keys and copies them, do you blame the local locksmith, or the guy who broke in?

dude it wasn't a tutorial on key making it was the KEY.

 

[ragethebeast]

The problem here is EULA's are not legally binding. The fact that they claim you are agreeing to it simply by purchasing the product, before even getting a chance to read it, makes it invalid. Also, he has stated he does not use PSN, nor intends to, so therefore he is not held to the PSN Eula either. Contracts are only legally binding if both parties actually agree to them.

Hmm i'll look for a link but Blizzard sued a company 3 years ago for breach of EULA, what did they do they made a bot.

the bot on its own is technically legal (just like people claiming that what he did is legal)

The bot was then used in a way that was against the EULA (it was turned into a gold farm bot)

Ippso facto i think sony will win this and i hope they do. It would be one thing for this insinificant little twit to say yeah i know the rootkey... but when you release it to the public thats when i say it crosses the line.

I would be most interested to see this link. I am very interested in how the courts handled this case.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/10/01/blizzard-awarded-large-payout-in-wow-glider-case/ it has links to a few others inside of its report, i couldn't find anything more exclusively detailed however

It appears to me (although there is sparse information in the article for me to be sure) that they won their case because they sold the product. If they had kept it for personal use, or just made a video showing how to make your own bot, I don't think they would have had any legal trouble.

not to great with legal jargon but is this a better representation of the case? http://dockets.justia.com/docket/arizona/azdce/2:2006cv02555/322017/

 

[Gindil]

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

The jailbreaking of the iPod disagrees with you.

 

[Antari]

I hope Sony takes a severe beating on this one. If they win ... it will likely end my involvement in modern gaming because of the green lights it will give to all the other companies.