PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[Femaref]

No he isn't. I am not allowed to put engines that exceed a certain size into my car because its considered too dangerous, just the same as I can't mod the PS3 to do stuff that it wasn't intended to do.

Wrong. You are allowed to do everything you want - you just won't get a licence to use it in the streets. Same with the thing Geohot did - he modified his console. He is perfectly allowed to do this - he bought it. However, if Sony were to ban him from PSN, it's their right as he violated the terms of service of PSN. Would be the same with a car you modified - you violated the ToS of the streets thus you don't get access to it.

 

[Alade]

I hope that this drama costs sony enough money for them to be very crippled in the next console war, if Microsoft releases something with more processing power they'll be really overdue...

 

[Baresark]

This case definitely just got a little more interesting. I am glad he has all the money he needs for his self defense. He himself never released anything that allowed anyone to play backups. You can't blame the guy who invented the gun, and you can't blame the gun, the only recourse is to blame the people who use hacks to play pirated games.

Fight the good fight. This is all about information and control. He simply made the information public, and people will do with it as they please. And if you offend the people, it will only give them a reason to try and destroy you.

Edit: The fight over analogies on this site is too funny. People take them too serious. You can compare it to a gun, but when you turn it into murdering with your legal gun, the analogy breaks down. It's no longer analogous. It's the same thing for the car analogy. Either way, you are talking about potentially hurting and/or killing someone. It's no longer an appropriate analogy. No one is going to use their PS3, pirated or otherwise, to either go 200 MPH down the road or rob someone. Everyone wants to talk philosophy, and you can really see how amateur everyone is in this respect. Laws exist to protect people. Do all laws do this? NO. Are all laws right? NO. Are laws in line with moral laws? For the most part, NO. All rights exist in that you live, and you lose the rights if you take away someone else's rights. If someone is running homebrew on their system, and they are not pirating games or misusing the system, and not harming anyone, then they seem to be well within the rights to do what they are doing. It's not their fault someone else is stealing games, and they should not suffer for it.

I'll come back to what I said a while ago about this issue. They should not sell you something, then after they have your money, tell you what you are or are not allowed to do with it. For all intents and purposes, they should make you sign an EULA before you pay for it. Not after. Then you are violating a contract and they are well within their rights to take you to court over it. If I score an NFL contract, I don't sign it before they tell me I have to practice everyday with the team I'm on and we determine proper compensation for my skills. In this case, Sony seems wrong to me. You get an update, and in order to play the system, I have to agree to a EULA everytime. But if I say no, that was $300 for a paperweight. They didn't sell me a paperweight, they sold me a videogame system.

Haha, they wouldn't do this though, because less people would buy it. And at some future time a system would come out that lets you create homebrew on it and do with it as you pleased, no other company could compare (we'll pretend PC's don't exist, just for this statement, LOL).

 

[dragontiers]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

But it is not against the law to take the same gun, make a custom stock for it, modify it to accept different clip sizes, etc. And again, we are not talking about using the item to commit a crime, but rather the legal right of the consumer to purchase an item and make modifications to it for their own personal use. Sony is not suing GeoHot for pirating, they are suing him for modding his console and showing others how it can be done.

 

[Deshin]

If any company pisses you off grow some balls and stop buy their stuff. Tell them why you are pissed so they know. Hell, find people that feel the same way and start making some noise.

Consumer power can't be taken away, you have to give it away.

If you feel that developers are forcing you to buy a game with out knowing about it first because of launch day DLC you truly have given away you consumer power. No one forces me to do anything I don't want to. And you Dragon age example is moot.

LOL, that piracy is a quality-assurance service, if a game is a pile of heaping crap way steal it? You want quality assurance demand it. Let the developer know you are pissed at the quality of a product, then DO BUY IT (don't steal it either). Downloading the game off the web in your room alone, where no one will know does NOTHING to prevent the release of shit games.

And OMG could you be anymore wrong about why game are yet to be classified as art.

The Dragon Age example is a good one; people let them get away with it because it's Bioware and everyone loves Bioware, but if ANYONE pulled a stunt like that back in the 90s they'd have been called out on it.

I'll assume you've played Assassin's Creed 2 (as most should, it's brilliant), that massive DRM scheme put a lot of people off it. So much so that people who wouldn't have pirated the game under normal circumstances ended up pirating it anyway just on sheer principle. Don't think for a minute Ubisoft didn't feel the hit.

In the 90s when piracy was rampant do you know what devs/pubs did? They made good games and people bought these good games solely on the fact they were good. The best titles of this generation (I'm not going to even use the term triple A, that denotes inmplied quality, let's call them McGames, overpriced and saturated) can be counted in under a dozen whereas back then there was a smash hit being released every month.

 

[Xanthious]

Seeing how well this worked out for Apple when they tried, and failed, to make it illegal to jailbreak an iPhone I imagine the same will hold true in this situation as well. Legal precedent is already there and modding a console isn't all that difference than jailbreaking an iPhone. Bottom line is this, piracy is illegal modding is not. If Sony wants to sue people how about they wait until they actually do something illegal.

I really hope this hacker goes to jail. A good ass rape would be appropriate.

It's disappointing that there are people who support him. That said, world is full of sick and mad bastards. If some people enjoy child porn and scenes of real-life carnage it's only logical that there will be bastards supporting criminals like this geohot.

Please, enlighten us, what did Geohot do that was in the slightest way illegal?

 

[RoBi3.0]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but itsn't this just like buying a house?

I mean you buy a house and pay if off, but you still have to pay for it and even more you have to abide by city codes... its your house but the city can tell you how long your grass can be, what color your house can be and if you don't do this they fine the hell out of you. no matter if your 3 inch grass was okay when you bought the house... now you need 2 inch grass and you need to repaint your house... its the same deal and no one complains like a whiny ***** like geohot is doing.

It's more analogous to buying a house and having the realtor (sp), after purchase, sue you for adding on a deck, or planting a garden in the back. The government isn't the one telling him what he can or can't do with his system, Sony is.

It is not really the same, putting a deck on the back of your house doesn't have the potential for enabling someone to rob the conveniences store down the street.

Besides the closest equivalent to a Realtor would be Gamestop while Sony would be the original owner of the house or the company that built it.

 

[Deshin]

No that is not how the world works. I am not allowed to put engines that exceed a certain size into my car because its considered too dangerous, just the same as I can't mod the PS3 to do stuff that it wasn't intended to do.

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

A PS3 is not a car being used on a street. A PS3 is not a gun being used to blow someone's brains out. A PS3 is not a computer being used to DDoS/Hack Banks.

Video games are not automobiles or firearms; the laws are VASTLY DIFFERENT. The big question here isn't "are you allowed to modify your car/gun/house" it's "are you allowed to modify your PS3" and the law says yes you can. But hey, let's just throw the video games laws out the window because guns can be used to shoot puppies. This is some Chewbacca defense right there, honestly.

 

[dragontiers]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but itsn't this just like buying a house?

I mean you buy a house and pay if off, but you still have to pay for it and even more you have to abide by city codes... its your house but the city can tell you how long your grass can be, what color your house can be and if you don't do this they fine the hell out of you. no matter if your 3 inch grass was okay when you bought the house... now you need 2 inch grass and you need to repaint your house... its the same deal and no one complains like a whiny ***** like geohot is doing.

It's more analogous to buying a house and having the realtor (sp), after purchase, sue you for adding on a deck, or planting a garden in the back. The government isn't the one telling him what he can or can't do with his system, Sony is.

It is not really the same, putting a deck on the back of your house doesn't have the potential for enabling someone to rob the conveniences store down the street.

Besides the closest equivalent to a Realtor would be Gamestop while Sony would be the original owner of the house or the company that built it.

I'll admit, it was a poor analogy. I personally think of it more like showing people how to install a custom steering wheel on their cars, and getting sued by Toyota because people could use the information to figure out how to hot-wire cares right off the lot with the information. It's not how the information was intended to be used, and people can and have figured out how to hot-wire cars (aka pirating) without this information. They should be going after the people who pirate the materials and make said pirated materials available, not the people who mod systems for their own personal use, in my opinion.

 

[MattAn24]

There's a "Terms of Service" for a reason, Mr. "GeoHot", you asshat.

I hope he loses. I haven't been a PlayStation gamer for years, except for my PSP.. (I own a 360 and I abide by the correct Terms of Service, because it may be MY console, but Microsoft still owns the stuff inside it! And the firmware that runs it!) And I'm STILL enraged when I hear about all the hacking that the PSP gets.. People pirating THE JAPANESE VERSION of Dissidia Duodecim Prologus (yes, the 300 yen paid demo).. Ugh. It's still THREE FUCKING DOLLARS. And it's not JUST a demo. It's an entire pre-story to the full game and introduces some of the new characters. Plus it adds Aerith as an Assist character in the full version of the game.

I really hope that their JP save files are corrupted when they try to use it for the full ENGLISH VERSION of the retail game.

I also really hope this "GeoHot" guy rots in Hell. Or prison, whichever comes first. He's nothing but an arrogant twat. If he didn't have the money, that's his own fault. He should live with the consequences. Sony has RULES, just like every company does. He's not being a hero, OR a "moral citizen".

 

[ragethebeast]

Also since he agreed to the EULA and ToS on purchasing the console:

Except as stated in this Agreement, all content and software provided through Sony Online Services are licensed non-exclusively and revocably to you, your children and children for whom you are a legal guardian (collectively for purposes of this section, "You" or "Your"), solely for Your personal, private, non-transferable, non-commercial, limited use on a limited number of activated PlayStation®3 computer entertainment systems, PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) systems, VOD Devices and any other hardware devices, including peripherals that are sold or licensed by a Sony company, authorized by SCEA in the country in which your account is registered. All intellectual property rights subsisting in Sony Online Services, including all software, data, and content subsisting in or in connection with the operation of Sony Online Services, the Online ID, the access to content and hardware used in connection with Sony Online Services (collectively defined as "Property"), belong to SCEA and its licensors. All use or access to Property shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement, other applicable agreements, if any, and all applicable copyright and intellectual property rights laws. You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property . Except as stated in this Agreement or otherwise expressly permitted by SCEA in writing, you may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property. You may not create any derivative works, attempt to create the source code from the object code, or download or use any Property for any purpose other than as expressly permitted. You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism in connection with Sony Online Services

Later on in setion 12.

Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign in. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PlayStation®3


So techincally he did something he agreed not to do ( section 12 is in response to the change in other os feature QQ...buy a computer you bums)

 

[Xanthious]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

So if I buy a car I'm allowed to drive drunk? If I buy a PC I'm allowed to use it to hack into sites? If I buy a gun I'm allowed to use it to shoot someone?
Your argument is just completely flawed. Rethink it.

I think the problem you are having trouble grasping is that as with any item you buy there are both legal and illegal ways to use it. Modding a console is not illegal. Piracy is though. Just because modding it allows it to play pirated games doesn't change the fact that nothing illegal has taken place simply by modding it. Now if Sony wants to sue people that pirate games, great. However, they should wait until something illegal has taken place. In the case of Geohot, he has done nothing illegal.

 

[Sakurazaki1023]

I know this is going to be abused, I just know that people are going to use this for piracy, maybe even this guy will.

However, in this case, I believe he is in the right. MacGyvering your own belongings is your right, you paid for the item so the physical item belongs to you. if I want to change a device's functionality it shouldn't be a crime, unless I then use that device to commit another crime. In that case the crime makes me a criminal.

I completely agree when it comes to MacGyvering products you've paid for. The only reason I'd consider hacking my PS3 is for language patch instillation. I was planning on importing a copy of Tales Of Vesperia (a new PS3 copy) from Japan, installing a fan-made translation patch, and enjoying my game. I payed for a new PS3, I payed for a new Japanese copy of the game, I payed for the shipping, I'd donate to the people who created the translation patch, and Sony didn't region lock the console. There is no indication that the game will ever be released in the US, so why is it suddenly a lawsuit worthy offense to want to pay for a legitimate copy of a game and play it on a legally purchased console in my own language.

Does Microsoft sue it's customers when they install homemade software on their legally purchased computer? Would they sue if I downloaded a translation patch to allow my copy of Vista to allow for Gaelic or Klingon? Would they sue me if I modified some firmware to allow for a computer controlled toaster attachment? Of course not, so why can't I do the same on my PS3?

 

[Charley]

I really really really hope he loses. This is a bad combination of tedious and layered with a self-important hax0r "freedom fighter". He's caused all these problems just to do, frankly, infantile rubbish like play games on the wrong console (probably a contravention of their EULA - and I always wondered, are ROMs piracy if you don't/never owned the original?)

He enabled piracy, more to the point he's now an accessory to every count of piracy that occurs on the PS3.

Do him for that. Over and over and over again, let's see how long people want to donate to his "cause" for.

 

[Kyoh]

I think a lot of people are reading this wrong.

Geohot is NOT supporting piracy, nor is he supporting hacking games to cheat online.

Geohot is simply arguing that if he wants to modify his PS3 to do things it normally couldn't (like playing Super Mario or something), then he should be allowed to.

He is NOT saying he should be allowed to create awesome hacks, take it online, and cheat his way to victory on Modern Warfare, or what have you.

The man just wants to modify his PS3 for home purposes. This doesn't affect other people, and he willing voids the warranty, so what is the problem?

 

[Dfskelleton]

Hope this guy wins. At first I was a bit skeptical on his cause, but now I agree with him completely.

 

[alekth]

I honestly can't think of any legal advantages that a modded PS3 could provide that is worth all of this hassle.

I can think of a few possible apps, e.g. making screenshots, playing music during any game, swapping the X and O buttons for the system (something that frankly I think the OFW should do anyway if you set system language to Japanese), save state (a.k.a. suspend for all games because sometimes one needs to do something else before the next save point);

All these and more are possible on PSP CFW (with suspend actually in OFW for the PSPgo), and when I was stuck playing on a OFW PSP they were sorely missed (and the battery life saving one was too, though that's not relevant to the PS3).

More video playback options and a better browser are also not out of question.

And while personally not all too interested in the skinning of the interface, the PSP also has an amazing app for that.

Yes, it opens the gates for piracy. Yes, I'd rather take the bad with the good than forfeit both. No, the PSN is not unaware of the FW running and they can and will ban for that (exact same situation as Xbox Live jtag ban).

In the end it's a pretty thin line and laws are constantly challenged. While it doesn't apply to the PS3, isn't it completely legal in Australia to mod your console to circumvent region locking, and it was decided as such in a lawsuit. It also opens the gates for piracy and certainly isn't what the manufacturer intended, because if they wanted region-free then they would have made it so. Some countries in Europe have ruled modding legal if it is for more than just piracy as well.

As for gun analogies, no, you're not allowed to just kill anyone with it, but in the manner of this legal battle, the gun manufacturer or whoever taught you how to handle a gun isn't the one who's getting in legal trouble. Piracy is still illegal, whether it's an illegally obtained game on a hacked PS3 or an illegally obtained mp3 on a perfectly untouched PS3.
Buying a house and still having to pay the local authorities is more about having them dispose of your trash, maintain roads, electricity and water supply, depending on where you are for them to keep fire-fighters and police services etc. Society and hence the government have made laws as for why these measures are necessary. The decisions can still be challenged if they are perceived as unreasonable.
Corporations are not your country's government or police force, as much as they might want to be. And when corporations write laws (what the DMCA pretty much is), then it's also completely expected for those laws to be challenged.

 

[Deshin]

I really hope this hacker goes to jail. A good ass rape would be appropriate.

It's disappointing that there are people who support him. That said, world is full of sick and mad bastards. If some people enjoy child porn and scenes of real-life carnage it's only logical that there will be bastards supporting criminals like this geohot.

So if I buy a car I'm allowed to drive drunk? If I buy a PC I'm allowed to use it to hack into sites? If I buy a gun I'm allowed to use it to shoot someone?
Your argument is just completely flawed. Rethink it.

I also really hope this "GeoHot" guy rots in Hell. Or prison, whichever comes first. He's nothing but an arrogant twat. If he didn't have the money, that's his own fault. He should live with the consequences. Sony has RULES, just like every company does. He's not being a hero, OR a "moral citizen".

Right, fuck it, I'm out.

And for the sake of avoind a low-content post: You're acting like a mob armed with torches and pitchforks and spouting ludirous comments at someone that, for all intents and purposes, has done nothing illegal. You're angry and mad so coming up with any stupid justification about cars and guns just to try to scrape a point together.