PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[OG-Original Gamer]

He violated the terms that must be agreed to PRIOR to purchase. If he changes his mind later and decides to screw with it he is on the hook - Period. The trial will go like this...

"Did you buy it?"
Yes.
"Did you violate the terms of purchase?"
Yes.
"Guilty."

Jeez. Dopey. Sony put those things in place because they anticipated this scenario, they knew this would happen, and they established the legal standards needed to protect their brand. There is nothing romantic or "David and Goliath" about this. Sony made rules up front years ago before the PS3 sold unit one that were available to anyone warning of the consequences. He violated them, he has a public record of intent a mile long, he is guilty and Sony will crush him.

They will not lose because they are in the right, legally and morally, and no one can act all outraged now because (again) this is all in place UP FRONT. You know when you buy. And no one is really going to stop playing a PS3 because of this. Please. Some hacker got caught. Good. Who cares? This was decided years ago. You make the same deal any time you agree to "Terms and Conditions". The idea is you read them and if you don't like them you don't buy the item in question. Simple. Not that you ignore them, violate them, and then turn ***** when the most obvious thing in the world occurs. Grow up.

 

[dragontiers]

The problem here is EULA's are not legally binding. The fact that they claim you are agreeing to it simply by purchasing the product, before even getting a chance to read it, makes it invalid. Also, he has stated he does not use PSN, nor intends to, so therefore he is not held to the PSN Eula either. Contracts are only legally binding if both parties actually agree to them.

Hmm i'll look for a link but Blizzard sued a company 3 years ago for breach of EULA, what did they do they made a bot.

the bot on its own is technically legal (just like people claiming that what he did is legal)

The bot was then used in a way that was against the EULA (it was turned into a gold farm bot)

Ippso facto i think sony will win this and i hope they do. It would be one thing for this insinificant little twit to say yeah i know the rootkey... but when you release it to the public thats when i say it crosses the line.

I would be most interested to see this link. I am very interested in how the courts handled this case.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/10/01/blizzard-awarded-large-payout-in-wow-glider-case/ it has links to a few others inside of its report, i couldn't find anything more exclusively detailed however

It appears to me (although there is sparse information in the article for me to be sure) that they won their case because they sold the product. If they had kept it for personal use, or just made a video showing how to make your own bot, I don't think they would have had any legal trouble.

not to great with legal jargon but is this a better representation of the case? http://dockets.justia.com/docket/arizona/azdce/2:2006cv02555/322017/

My legal jargonese isn't all that great either, but as the ruling specifically mentions copyright infringement and the sale of Glider, I am inclined to believe it is because they sold something that used part of Blizzard's code, which is illegal. I didn't notice any mention of the EULA in the judgment. If someone who knows legalese better wants to step in I would love to hear the specifics. Thanks for the links.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Oh god if he wins it either means companies are going to stop making system altogether (unlikely) or there going to make dummies that do nothing more then link to a controlled system that The company can control. Why do people think that companies are just going to roll over and die and let anyone do anything if you screw them one way their going to find a way to screw you back ten times as hard. This shit is going to hit the fan so hard its going to gum up the cogs for years.

 

[BENZOOKA]

That's great. I support him for one and hope that he'll win the case, as this isn't only an example case for Sony, but one about what we can do with items we have bought.

 

[Valencrow]

The way I see this modding the physical body of my game system is the same as modding my car. No one has any right to tell me what I can or can't do to it. Ford can't sue a guy for sticking Nitrous in his car so I don't see why Sony has any right to say what we can and can't do to our systems.
When it comes to online play I agree modding your PS3 is in no way street legal. You mod it; it should stay off PSN.

 

[demoman_chaos]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

You do realize for them to be playing Mario All-Stars on PS3, it had to be an illegal copy right? They would have had to downloaded a ROM designed to work with an emulator designed to work on a PS3. Both the SNES firmware and Mario All Stars are illegal versions and Nintendo almost certainly did not get the money they should have.

 

[Snow Fire]

Nintendo should sue him too. The tragic thing is that this nonsense has turned a basement-dweller with a silly nickname into a celebrity and martyr for the wannabe-hacker masses.

On an interesting note, Sony could do something much sneakier - patch out an update and amend the EULA to include clauses on modding etc. and some fun penalties. In a lot of places, you sign a contract (aka an EULA - and so few people read them front to back) and you're stuck with its consequences.

EULA's are weak, not only because they try to circumvent copyright laws in place to prevent control in certain areas, but they attempt to limit a person's rights. However, the courts aren't buying them in most cases, some killing them on arrival for being too ridiculously unfair. Wouldn't be surprised if suddenly the Supreme Court took up a case on the legality of EULAs, never saw them taking up the case on videogames coming.

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

 

[ragethebeast]

so if i am to understand this correctly

I think a lot of people are reading this wrong.

Geohot is NOT supporting piracy, nor is he supporting hacking games to cheat online.

It doesn't matter, he is still giving people the tools who might not otherwise not have them to do so.

For every person that only uses the hacks to do something legal, you would countless using it for something else illegal. I would be awed if even 1 out of every 10 people hacking their PS3 were not doing so just so that they can pirate stuff.

And that is totally irrelevant. If every single person except Geohot that mods their PS3 uses it for piracy Geohot would still have done nothing illegal. If Sony wants to get all litigation happy then they should be going after the people actually doing things that are illegal.

Are you even aware of how extremely selfish and self entitled this?

Basically your entire line of thought boils down to this: What I am doing will potentially cause a considerable and perhaps even a dramatic increase in piracy thus creating lots of problems for plenty of people, but because I myself am technically not pirating, I conclude that the shitstorm worth of problems I am about to unleash is ultimately none of my concern.

What you don't appear to understand or willing to understand that even assuming this is legal, what he is doing is still extremely selfish and inconsiderate because is he just doing as he pleases knowing that it will help others to commit crimes but still believes that its ok because so long as he himself doesn't pirate that means he has no reason to care even though the actual pirates are using the very tools that he himself created. He is not a "freedom fighter" like he claims to be, just a stupid, self entitled brat that gives precisely two shits about whatever harm pirates might cause thanks to his inventions so long as he can continue to play Super Mario bros on his Playstation because he was too cheap to buy a Wii.

r
so by your moron logic the person whom invented the firearm or the sword would be liable for every murder committed with the implements.

Well there were alot of suicides in medieval Europe and feudal Japan for this reason, blacksmiths who forged weapons felt the responsibility that all they did was cause an end to life even though they never took a single one themselves

 

[Houshou]

If the anything that comes out of this. I hope its the method in which I can give my PS3 the Backwards Compatibility (BWC) OS. I would tear my PS3 open in a heartbeat to install their own software onto my PS3.

It's complete Bullshit that they only made the BWC OS for the first generation PS3's which was the difference between me having Gas Money for a Month or it!

 

[Wicky_42]

http://ps3mfw.com/?p=134

KaKaRoTo's letter is fantastic - a succinct, to the point, accurate, measured response. Definitely read it.

 

[btenkink]

If I buy a scale to cook Crystal Meth with, even if my actions are illegal, the scale company has ZERO right to sue me.

If people are doing illegal stuff it's up to the police to deal with them; the company who sold the tools should just be happy they paid a ridiculous price for their hardware.

Legally, Geohot is good to win.

 

[MattAn24]

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Right. I'm not trusting a single word he says. The term "hacker" literally means "malicious attack/s on intellectual property", whether it's a website, a computer or video game console. It is ILLEGAL. Piracy is a FORM of hacking, because you're accessing a bootleg version of the real thing. Game companies do not deserve this. Most companies take SEVERAL YEARS to make a game as perfect as they can, to sell for retail and earn money for it. People gaining access to that ILLEGALLY is NOT helping game companies.

What REALLY irks me is his final line above. Sure, he'll be "the first person in line" to buy certain Sony products (BUT THEY'RE SUING HIM. DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT? Don't SUPPORT them further by BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS.) Also, the "Next GEOHOT Project"? Give me a fucking break.. This kid needs to be thrown behind bars, with the only key being disintegrated. We don't need his kind on this planet.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

If I want to fuck my gun (after I buy it) I will! If I want to take it apart or modify it, I will! If I want to take apart my PC or modify it in some way to make it better, I will!

 

[OG-Original Gamer]

The way I see this modding the physical body of my game system is the same as modding my car. No one has any right to tell me what I can or can't do to it. Ford can't sue a guy for sticking Nitrous in his car so I don't see why Sony has any right to say what we can and can't do to our systems.
When it comes to online play I agree modding your PS3 is in no way street legal. You mod it; it should stay off PSN.

If you buy a car you can certainly make changes to it. But there are things you can do that, due the terms and conditions of purchase, will allow the car maker to ignore your warranty. Also, you can make changes to your car that would A. prohibit you from racing it in certain organizations or B. cause you to be disqualified if you won a race and the modification violated the rules of competition.

Point is you would know these things in advance and if caught you'd be invited to eat it. These rules and the possible consequences are spelled out before you ever buy a PS3, or a car, or get a credit card, or rent a house, or anything else.