PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[Defense]

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

How was it advertised exactly? Did they flaunt the PS3 having Linux in a commercial? Because I haven't seen a single advertisement where Linux was supposed to be on the PS3 Slim.

 

[Arehexes]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

EDIT: Y'know the really funny thing? He could have modified his PS3 all he liked, not have been a royal dick by releasing it publicly so it could potentially cause harm, and just do his so-called "legal hacking". Without any consequences. That is, if he wasn't caught out. He made himself publicly known, including his full name. Of course he's going to get F'd in the A!

Eh about the linux thing on the ps3, sony brag about how you can use a ps3 as a computer with linux in a few press releases, and there were articles about how US military air forces used clusters of PS3s for computers (Same with some universities). I know you don't use OtherOS but please don't assume only thief's use it.

 

[robbaz]

I hope Geohot bring down the house! When i lost my OtherOs it felt like a damn extortion! Stay and missout on online multiplayer or update and lose OtherOs.

I don't care if it was in the EULA removing a core function like that was a major dick move. I hate the moral people telling me that you agreed to the EULA! All i can say it read your own damn EULA they can do whatever the **** they want. No purpose in having one.

Sure i understand that sony wants to protect their product. But man it's just so sad.

 

[MattAn24]

Yes but they won't remove Blu-ray ( while they could and it would be within their rights) they are making money off it, and i'm sure they have contracts with netflix and i believe i haeard something about Hulu singing with them, not to mention all Ps3 games are prinited on blu ray disc.

Exactly! Way to completely misread, Mr. Xanthious~! Obviously Bluray's are what the PS3 RUNS. It's a BLURAY DRIVE, for Christ's sake! Of course I'll also watch Bluray movies on it! That's part of its "intended purpose"! They'd be absolute fuckheads to remove the ONE THING that makes the product.. Y'know.. Function properly.

Linux however, is a third-party functionality that can be added or removed, depending on Sony's decision on the matter. Much like Backwards Compatibility for PS2 games! I may not like the fact that it isn't in current PS3 Slim's, but that's not my decision to make. It did suddenly (and rather drastically, might I add) drop the price of the console. Plus, the PS2 is still being sold in truckloads. They had enough reason to say "This isn't a requirement at this time".

The average, typical gamer will not use Linux on a console that plays HD movies and games. It's JUST like complaining about the 360 dashboard being "updated" from the old classic layout to the new layout with Avatars. Microsoft changed it, that's how the console runs. Deal with it.

 

[Arehexes]

He really collected that warchest fast! Props for him. May there be more jailbreaks to had.

Not too pleased seeing all these sheeps moaning and crying over this thought...

http://ps3mfw.com/?p=134

KaKaRoTo's letter is fantastic - a succinct, to the point, accurate, measured response. Definitely read it.

Good read.

Problem is both sides aren't 100% right, and really your a "sheep" too if you follow Geohot (Since you seem to say Sony supports are "sheep" too).

One Side we should be able to mess with our software and hardware cause that's fun exploring what it can or can't do.

The other side is a company who is trying to make money must protect their investment, and why shouldn't a company protect there investment they can just cut that division and no more Playstation 3. If that's the case Nintendo can go back to making cards and No more Super Mario or pokemon.

We need a happy center in the middle, maybe Sony can give out a devkit for homebrewers can use for free which won't let us have access to pirate. I think that's fair since that's what the argument is, we want to have freedom to make apps and try out what a system can do. And sony can protect their investments from people stealing games.

 

[Macrobstar]

god damn it, stop ruining my platform!

 

[CJ1145]

People in this thread REALLY seem unable to grasp the context here, and the use of the word "hack". Using Linux on your PS3 doesn't make you a gamer god, people.

 

[Snow Fire]

On all the pieces of paper you get within the box containing the console, EVERYTHING has clear notifications of what its intended purpose is. Oh, plus there's loads of "copyright" and "registered trademark", etc. Sony OWNS the PS3 brand, as well as every console they sell. Same with Microsoft owning all 360's they make.

Firmware updates are official and keep the console updated legally. Google can do whatever the fuck they want to their search engine, and not a damn thing can be done about it. It's THEIR intellectual property, you bought the use of it.

It's like someone whinging and complaining that they were banned from Xbox Live, even when they're paying for Gold. You might have 12 months worth of Gold, but if you fuck with the StepTo and his Terms of Service/Conduct, your ass will be banhammer'd. You won't be getting whatever remaining Gold time you may or may not have credited back to your bank account. You fucked up, you pay the price. That price is losing the right to use the console THEY made. Your fault.

There is a big difference between a console and Xbox Live, one is a good, the other a service. When you paid for a good, you now have the ownership rights of said device, anything you do to it is your legal right as long as they stay within the bounds of the law, not pirating games and such. Xbox Live is a service, it's a privilege, not a right unlike owning a good.

 

[loremazd]

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

... YES, IT IS! It is well within his legal right to do what he wants with the product he's purchased. That IS how the world works. Sony's lawsuit aginst him is questionable at best and downright illegal at worst. Sheesh

Ummm... I am pretty sure it is against the law to take the gun which you acquired legally and use it to hold up a liquor store, or murder some one with it, or shoot puppies in the head with it.

I am also pretty sure that using a legally acquired computer to hack a bank or interrupt website services is against the law, as well.

I hope you were being sarcastic.

But it is not against the law to take the same gun, make a custom stock for it, modify it to accept different clip sizes, etc. And again, we are not talking about using the item to commit a crime, but rather the legal right of the consumer to purchase an item and make modifications to it for their own personal use. Sony is not suing GeoHot for pirating, they are suing him for modding his console and showing others how it can be done.

Actually, i'd say this hack is more like modifying that gun with a silencer. Sure, there's legit reasons for wanting a silencer on a gun, but at the end of the day, it simply is mostly used to make getting away with a crime easier.

There's no real moral highground here. That key makes the PSN network free. That's the bottom line.

 

[Xanthious]

Yes but they won't remove Blu-ray ( while they could and it would be within their rights) they are making money off it, and i'm sure they have contracts with netflix and i believe i haeard something about Hulu singing with them, not to mention all Ps3 games are prinited on blu ray disc.

Exactly! Way to completely misread, Mr. Xanthious~! Obviously Bluray's are what the PS3 RUNS. It's a BLURAY DRIVE, for Christ's sake! Of course I'll also watch Bluray movies on it! That's part of its "intended purpose"! They'd be absolute fuckheads to remove the ONE THING that makes the product.. Y'know.. Function properly.

Linux however, is a third-party functionality that can be added or removed, depending on Sony's decision on the matter. Much like Backwards Compatibility for PS2 games! I may not like the fact that it isn't in current PS3 Slim's, but that's not my decision to make. It did suddenly (and rather drastically, might I add) drop the price of the console. Plus, the PS2 is still being sold in truckloads. They had enough reason to say "This isn't a requirement at this time".

The average, typical gamer will not use Linux on a console that plays HD movies and games. It's JUST like complaining about the 360 dashboard being "updated" from the old classic layout to the new layout with Avatars. Microsoft changed it, that's how the console runs. Deal with it.

It's irrelevant, it was an advertised feature that was removed. Just because the majority of consumers didn't buy it for that reason doesn't mean that there weren't people who did and Sony removed that feature. Because it may not have been a feature you ever used or even the majority of people will ever use doesn't matter. The removal of the "Other O/S" feature has already been found to be unlawful in some courts of law in fact.

Sony wants to believe that they, not you, own the PS3 sitting in your house. You seem fine with that and I truly feel sorry for you. The rest of us, who don't believe that it's ok to trample over everyone's consumer rights in the name of combating "piracy", tend to believe that we own our PS3s and will do what what we like with OUR property. When and IF we should break the law then they have can take legal recourse but not before.

 

[dragontiers]

Even though he has aided people to play pirated games on the PS3? That pretty much makes him the accomplice to every person that pirates a game.

As I said in a previous post, if I show you how to install a custom steering wheel in your car, am I suddenly responsible for everyone who hot-wires a car? No. Just because the information can be abused, doesn't mean I am responsible for someone who does abuse it. Might as well blame Sony for pirating simply because they make games that can be pirated.

The games weren't able to be pirated until the code was leaked....Flawed argument.
If you weren't discriminating to who you showed that information, yes, you are in the wrong, just as not everyone can be sold a gun for the same reason.
He needs to man up and take responsibility. He knew what he was doing would allow people to pirate games. He is simply pussying out of that responsibility.

I hate to break it to you, but yes, games were pirated before this information was printed. Additionally, for your "responsiblity" argument, there is a series of books called The Poor Man's James Bond. These books are filled with ways to make home made explosives, and other weapons. They are 100% legal to sell and purchase, and the person selling/publishing them has no legal responsibility to someone who uses this information for any illegal purposes. If you teach a martial arts class, you are not responsible if someone gets in a fight and uses the techniques you taught to injure someone else. By telling you how to do something, I am not giving you the right to do it, just information on how it is done.

I hate to break this to you but PS3 games would be 'unpiratable' if it wasn't for Geohotz & co. Say what you want but when it comes to it, I think it's a shitty thing he did that just allows publishers and developers to not receive their hard earned money. If you think that is fair, then please tell me how it is.

I really don't think the PS3 would be "unpiratable" without GeoHotz intervention. The people who want to pirate games find their own workarounds, and while the one he published may have made it easier on pirates, it is not going to cause people who weren't going to pirate to start, nor if he hadn't published it would it have stopped people who wanted to pirate from doing it.
I agree, it is terrible that publishers and developers loose out on money because of pirates. However, it is just as bad in my mind that creative people who like to modify items they have purchased, for their own use, without reselling it or in any way taking away from the company that made it, are getting sued. If I had the technical expertise, you bet your bottom dollar I would mod my ps3, along with all my other systems, into an awesome looking game box that I can run those games on. For example, I think the nintoaster [http://www.google.com/#q=nintoaster&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivnsfd&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=y9xiTbiED4H88AbWqvHCDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQqwQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=5554087cfc08a05] is one of the most amazing things ever. If Sony wins their case, things like this could also become illegal. And that is why I support GeoHotz.

 

[loremazd]

Even though he has aided people to play pirated games on the PS3? That pretty much makes him the accomplice to every person that pirates a game.

As I said in a previous post, if I show you how to install a custom steering wheel in your car, am I suddenly responsible for everyone who hot-wires a car? No. Just because the information can be abused, doesn't mean I am responsible for someone who does abuse it. Might as well blame Sony for pirating simply because they make games that can be pirated.

The games weren't able to be pirated until the code was leaked....Flawed argument.
If you weren't discriminating to who you showed that information, yes, you are in the wrong, just as not everyone can be sold a gun for the same reason.
He needs to man up and take responsibility. He knew what he was doing would allow people to pirate games. He is simply pussying out of that responsibility.

I hate to break it to you, but yes, games were pirated before this information was printed. Additionally, for your "responsiblity" argument, there is a series of books called The Poor Man's James Bond. These books are filled with ways to make home made explosives, and other weapons. They are 100% legal to sell and purchase, and the person selling/publishing them has no legal responsibility to someone who uses this information for any illegal purposes. If you teach a martial arts class, you are not responsible if someone gets in a fight and uses the techniques you taught to injure someone else. By telling you how to do something, I am not giving you the right to do it, just information on how it is done.

I hate to break this to you but PS3 games would be 'unpiratable' if it wasn't for Geohotz & co. Say what you want but when it comes to it, I think it's a shitty thing he did that just allows publishers and developers to not receive their hard earned money. If you think that is fair, then please tell me how it is.

I really don't think the PS3 would be "unpiratable" without GeoHotz intervention. The people who want to pirate games find their own workarounds, and while the one he published may have made it easier on pirates, it is not going to cause people who weren't going to pirate to start, nor if he hadn't published it would it have stopped people who wanted to pirate from doing it.
I agree, it is terrible that publishers and developers loose out on money because of pirates. However, it is just as bad in my mind that creative people who like to modify items they have purchased, for their own use, without reselling it or in any way taking away from the company that made it, are getting sued. If I had the technical expertise, you bet your bottom dollar I would mod my ps3, along with all my other systems, into an awesome looking game box that I can run those games on. For example, I think the nintoaster [http://www.google.com/#q=nintoaster&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivnsfd&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=y9xiTbiED4H88AbWqvHCDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQqwQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=5554087cfc08a05] is one of the most amazing things ever. If Sony wins their case, things like this could also become illegal. And that is why I support GeoHotz.

I dont think it's responsible to support either party, really. The amicable solution would be to decide on a middle ground that makes concessions to the consumer and producer.

 

[Cormyre]

If the government would've been quicker on tax returns I would've donated the money I had earmarked for a new PS3 (replacement for my 60GB that died) to him instead of giving it to Sony, first they want to strip features that were a big part of why a person may have bought the PS3 in the first place ("other OS's), and now this.. strike 3 after the cocky answer of "I believe we made the most beautiful thing in the world. Nobody would criticize a renowned architect's blueprint that the position of a gate is wrong. It's the same as that." regarding the square button issue with the PSP's. Well strike 4 really if I would consider the offense that was the PSPGo(****-yourself-if-you-already-had-a-psp-game-library).

 

[robbaz]

god damn it, stop ruining my platform!

Improving my platform

 

[BlackWidower]

Like I said in another topic:

If they win they will say "Its just for homebrewing!"

5 days later PSN shuts down due too many hackers and pirates because its 'legal'.

That's a different issue. You are concerned with piracy, talk piracy. But hacking a system you own is not piracy.

Besides, if Sony cannot adapt to a changing ecosystem, that's their problem. It's the old Darwinian philosophy: adapt or die.

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

EDIT: Y'know the really funny thing? He could have modified his PS3 all he liked, not have been a royal dick by releasing it publicly so it could potentially cause harm, and just do his so-called "legal hacking". Without any consequences. That is, if he wasn't caught out. He made himself publicly known, including his full name. Of course he's going to get F'd in the A!

I think the people who do these hacks are well aware that it voids their warranty, and aren't going to complain if it breaks (they might, but those who do are imbeciles).
And the reason he released his name and information is probably because he doesn't see any reason to hide (since he feels he's done nothing wrong). For comparison, check out the blog of Benjamin J Heckendorn. While not on the same level of modification, he makes some serious overhauls to gaming consoles, implementing what he considers to be improvements on their designs, and operates in the open with ways to contact him because there's nothing wrong with what he's doing. True, there isn't any reprogramming done, but if you want something in that vein check out all the recent hacks of the Kinect, using it to build 3d cameras, or visors for robots, or whatever. This requires a serious overhaul of the OS, and no one seems to be considering legal action against them.

Consider if you bought a car, and installed a new, faster motor, fuel injections, whatever (my knowledge of cars is limited, indulge me). You made the car to the exact specifications that you consider desirable, using the car you bought as a template. Proud of your work, you take it to a car show, and show off the design and how you did it to all interested parties. Then, the company that made the original car you bought tries to sue you because the car has "unauthorized features." That, I feel is a comparable situation to this one, and would be considered ridiculous by any outside car enthusiast.

I know copy write law is kind of tricky on these situations, and that the law is kind of gray on what violates it, but I personally think that nothing was violated, and so there is no case.

Feel free to disagree, and I understand your position, but I am against it.

 

[Misho-]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

I really hope he doesn't win, I don't find him so charming. A bit stuck up to be honest.

And as for playing Super Mario All Stars on PS3... That strikes me as dumb... Why buy a console to play a game not available in that system to begin with?

Why go through all the trouble to hack it to play something you could have played just as well on the original console... (You know, saving the money wasted on buying the PS3 and buying a Nintendo Console instead?)

I don't really see the point... Like I don't know... Hacking a Nintendo 3Ds just to play the old and plain Windows Minesweeper just because...

And alhought the Kinect is a great example of creativity thru Hacking, Microsoft was ok with it from the get go... (Still the Freedom is not absolute, take for example the porn simulator thingie that was cooked up a while back and Microsoft's response to the matter)

But anyway, apparently I'm wrong to think the Original developer/company of a product has any saying on how the product shouldn't be broken down and have (trade) secrets distributed online.